Needing some thoughts on youngster

GrassChop

GrassChop

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I've had my boy from 6 months old and he is 5 in a couple of months. It's the first time I've had a horse from that age and completely started from scratch. He was straight off the forest so everything he knows up to now I have done myself which has all been completely new to me.

It hasn't been an easy journey and it has been a complete rollercoaster from being proud of him to honestly disliking him altogether. He's a very independent boy and brave. He's also always been extremely destructive though this has eased up slightly. I've had plenty of issues of him being bolshy and a total *ss, I hear this is typical boy behaviour and to be honest, I am more of a female animal person in general so this doesn't help. There has also been several occasions where he has just scared me because he has become too much to handle, gets too strong and forgets his boundaries. If I tell myself honestly, I have had too many occasions where I don't want anything to do with him because of his behaviour and that can't be normal. Obviously I have pushed through this and we have had lots of good experiences too. I have had all sorts of antics with my mare but never ever once considered not having her anymore, she could do anything and I'd still love her. For some reason, he has the ability to make me want nothing to do with him after he's been a complete idiot and I know in my heart that can't be right but I don't want to give up.

I've been slowly progressing into ridden work, I backed him in terms of taking a rider and doing short bouts of ridden work in walk and plan to get someone in to continue putting him through his paces because I'm no where near experienced enough to do that or to have even gotten this far but here we are.

I had my longest ridden hack on him recently, only about 20 minutes in walk down the lane and back and he was honestly brilliant, loved him to bits after that for being so good. However, today was completely different, just lost his head through excitement so I got off to lead and it was just hell for me, I lost my nerve because again, he forgot his boundaries and I was scared of getting hurt. Straight away, one bad experience and I regret spending all that money recently on getting him a decent saddle fitted and debating selling him again (this really isn't normal to feel this way is it?).

He is also showing a slight stubborn streak where he's not happy when I'm asking him to get on and do something, i.e. ride past the gate or walk on if he wants to stop and say hello to the horses so I don't want to end up losing confidence if he does something, I'd rather someone who knows what they're doing to train him through this.

I also have a potential issue that he has a learnt behaviour from my mare of panic reacting and this is one of the scariest bits for me because it puts me in a risky situation. She's not a nice companion and I have mentioned in a thread before that I have had to split them with an electric fence because I'd been mowed down twice by his panic running from a flick of her ears and I've been in the way. He's also got himself in situations before jumping through electric fences because he doesn't think before running from her so this was the safest option and also dietary requirements played a big part too. I'm concerned that this is now a behaviour with other things that scare him. He blindly panics and I know it's not something I can sort without help and I lose my nerve when he starts doing this because he's extremely strong and I don't want to get myself crushed, it's only been sheer luck of dodging it other than the other times. Will help even change this now?

The thing is, I've struggled to bond with him from the start. I've had more bad experiences than good that weigh on me more. I've tried so hard to push through and build my relationship with him but he doesn't make it easy. Is it possible for it to take 5 years and ongoing to know if a horse is right for you? I hate the thought of moving him on but I feel like I need to seriously consider it now before it is too late but I am stubborn and I also don't want to regret anything. Should I make the decision now or get him ridden away and then decide? Or is the ridden aspect not the issue, is it his personality that just doesn't click with me? Will he change as he grows up and works more? Will I bond with him more when he is riding out nicely and not losing his head when things get exciting? Or should I have already clicked with him by now?

I really need the hive mind of HHO to help me here. I'm really struggling with what to do.
 
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From the sounds of it he’d really benefit from being sent away to be brought on & ridden away with full disclosure re what he’s like when he panics.

It sounds like he’d benefit from someone able to be calm, confident and consistent and who might be able to help him learn more healthy ways to deal with being worried by something.

This would make him easier to sell if you decided that he just isn’t the one for you or if you decide you do way to keep him then he’ll have a much more solid foundation. (The time apart may actually help you make your decision depending on if you really miss him being around or feel relieved at having a break from him!)
 
Been there, done that.

Only with mine, I bred him. I actively hated him for quite a long time. At one point I decided that PTS was the best option, and I was happy with my decision.

He is the only reason my best friend and I have ever fallen out. For about 4 months I looked after him, but refused to interact with him.

He was very difficult to break in, was a nightmare to handle, ride and do anything with. Super reactive and would walk over you without a thought.
I can't really tell you what changed, but I stopped trying to get him to do what I wanted. I just accepted him for what he was, stopped taking him to lessons, stopped trying to get him to hack alone.

Decided that if he just wanted to be a happy hacker, going out with his friends then that's what he'd do. And that's exactly what he does. I don't ride him in the winter, and when you get on him after 6 months, he's exactly the same.

He naps in the same place in every hack. Spooks at the same things. I disassociate from him when he's being silly. Talk to my companion, look into the distance, and never at what he's looking at.

He'll be 18 this year and we rub along happily. I love him to bits.

I do think that if I hadn't bred him I would have sold him, and that is something you should consider. Send him away and sell him from there once he's going better.

Imagine life without him, would you be more content? There's plenty of horses out there that might you both happier.

Edited to add. He is 16.3hh, I'm 5ft 2. I lost count of the number of times he walked/ run over me.
I never sit n him without an air vest, and I have 17 empty cannisters!!
It took until he was about 9 before I really liked him.
 
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Poor lad, I feel for him
He doesn't feel safe or secure in the field with your mare, nor when he's with you by the sound if it (and that's not meant as a criticism of you at all - I'm a windy old person and have been in a similar position myself)
I echo the suggestion of getting a confident, competent rider to work with him, and then with you both if you feel like persevering with him
Good luck
 
If you have the funds to send him away, that would be your best option. You can then sell from there or keep. I sent my little gelding away for a few weeks to get out from my shadow and away from his sister (she loves him but she can be a bit mean). Did him the world of good. Yours could be backed properly and have a boundary reset, giving you a pony you might like or who would sell easily.

In terms of his living situation - individual turnout for a 5yo isn’t going to give you the calmest pony. He needs to play still at that age and lacks a friend to do so with. I appreciate the mare is unkind so he can’t go in with her, but it won’t be helping the situation.

New Forest ponies are wilful and stubborn as a breed. They are absolutely amazing as adults, but interesting adolescents! I have two who came to us for way below market value having lost trust and patience with their people in adolescence. With a settled herd, consistent boundaries and plenty of work, they’ve become very sweet adults. The ones we bought young were just as interesting as youngsters - but worth every bit of time and patience as they matured. At 8 and beyond, they’re the absolute dream of a pony - if you can get there in one piece!
 
It just sounds as if you've done a good job but got a bit a bit stuck with the riding away Its probably not helpful ascribing human motivations to him. He's just a young pony so will have ups and downs. And at his age needs to get confidence from his rider. I'd get help with riding him away, either at home or by sending him somewhere that you have researched thoroughly.
 
Agree with others if you can afford to take a step back and get someone in or send him somewhere to be schooled on. Will give you a bit of space and if you decide not to keep him in sure he will be more sellable, it may be that you won't gel or your setup isn't suitable for him. Don't feel guilty it's an expensive way to be miserable.
 
What’s his general set up/management like?
He sounds potentially bored and in need of a job tbh.

I’ve got a bit of a big thuggy 2yo boy with me at the moment, he’s out with 2 fillies, but they just don’t play like boys do. I think he will probably need to go out with some lads for a while, otherwise risk the behaviours escalating. It’s like having a hormonal teenager and confining them to the house and back yard with their sister. You can be as disciplined as you like with said teenager but ultimately they need some freedoms and energy burnt off.

Your horse is 5. Get him into some proper work. Utilising schooling livery as an interim measure to help you get going if needed.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm still stuck on what to do.

I am still trying pursue working with him and again today, what started off quite well long reining, when he decided he'd had enough, he has a real stubborn streak.

He was bucking, putting his ears back and throwing his head about while grunting and making noises when I asked him to carry on walking each time he stopped. He tried to get away a few times and I did have to let go when he tanked off properly which seems to be his go-to tactic.

I think what I need to know, is this going to be a permanent trait of his? I want a nice forward thinking hacking pony and this stubborn behaviour makes me think it's not going to be that way. I don't want to have to fight or potentially get thrown off or tanked off with when he naps or decides he has had enough during a simple hack over being asked to walk away from home or have a trot for example.

I'm giving him a job but he's not wanting one. The only impression he is giving me is that he'd be better off back on the forest doing what he wants and eating what he wants.
 
I would recommend sending away with full disclosure about his behaviour and after a pro starts to knock out the behaviour, I would definitely recommend going up for regular lessons so that you are guided as to how to deal with him, by the person that you send him to.

If you send away asap and nip it in the bud now, it is unlikely to be a permanent trait (unless there is some underlying, physical reason for the behaviour) given his age. Given you have had him from a baby, there will be a lot of emotions involved, you will be also unpicking everything you have done with him in the past and undoubtedly a little scarred from past events. Without realising, your body language is probably giving off worry and nervousness, so he will be taking over, when what he needs is clear boundaries from an effective leader. IME thinking about it as whether he is the right personality for you or whether you are clicking enough is unhelpful in this situation, because that involves too many emotions. It simply comes down to the fact that he has had questions asked of him and he has given the wrong answer because he is young horse and doesn't know any better. His behaviour needs to be corrected by a professional otherwise he will continue to give the wrong answer. It also sounds like he needs some serious ground work. I don't tolerate bolshy horses and do a lot on the ground as youngsters so that they know their place and they very much understand that they are not to move until they are asked. This is not a dominance thing, but a safety thing. Generally, I find that an understanding of respect on the ground somewhat translates under saddle to.

Getting young horses confidently hacking out is a real skill and it sounds like he definitely needs to be sent off to someone with a bigger toolbox to overcome his issues, there's no shame in that, it can be an extremely worthy investment.

I would caution against selling with this kind of behaviour as if it was my horse, I would be concerned as to where they could end up.
 
GrassChop said:
Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm still stuck on what to do.

I am still trying pursue working with him and again today, what started off quite well long reining, when he decided he'd had enough, he has a real stubborn streak.

He was bucking, putting his ears back and throwing his head about while grunting and making noises when I asked him to carry on walking each time he stopped. He tried to get away a few times and I did have to let go when he tanked off properly which seems to be his go-to tactic.

I think what I need to know, is this going to be a permanent trait of his? I want a nice forward thinking hacking pony and this stubborn behaviour makes me think it's not going to be that way. I don't want to have to fight or potentially get thrown off or tanked off with when he naps or decides he has had enough during a simple hack over being asked to walk away from home or have a trot for example.

I'm giving him a job but he's not wanting one. The only impression he is giving me is that he'd be better off back on the forest doing what he wants and eating what he wants.
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He’s young. He doesn’t necessarily want to do what you say. That’s the purpose of the backing process - quietly convince them to follow direction until they realise this is actually good.

In my general experience of New Forests: with good training he will become a dream. Safe, sensible, easy and oh so reliable. That’s my overwhelming experience of nicely trained adults. Without good training he will remain stubborn and uncooperative - potentially escalating until he scares you (on the ground and eventually under saddle). Those are the ones we buy for pennies when I’m looking for the next size up on a budget.

Honestly, send him away if you can. Some weeks of pro training will make the world of a difference.

My direct experiences:
- 13.2hh 4yo mare: liked to buck (oh boy did she!) as a protest as a youngster - if she was bored mostly. Preferred hacking to boring schooling. Also liked to bog off out hacking when she was bored and the field looked fun. Loved to jump though! She grew into a teen’s ride then a novice ride then a first pony, teaching my little dot of a 5 year old son to ride independently in the arena and out hacking with infinite patience.
- 14.2hh gelding who came to a friend as a last chance before pts. All checks done, had taken to bucking his owner off onto the road. Took about four weeks of schooling and was then taking out a novice and nervous teen and schooling sweetly for her. She still owns him 7 years later. He bucks occasionally but my kids rode him aged 7 upwards when they visited and he was always very sweet.
- 14.3hh NF cross gelding. Had a running off in hand habit when he came, to be shortly added to by a nice rearing habit once we started backing. Was fine following someone; going first was the issue. It petered out with time and reassurance and he was my novice husband’s ride from age 5 onwards.
- 13hh mare. Mine because she decided she didn’t do children until this year (she’s 11 now). She bucked when cross, ran off with me out hacking when bored; still bucks now if you let her get too excited. Little twisty wriggly bouncy things! Has this year decided she’d like to teach beginner visitors so took her a while to grow up! She is my solid mum’s helper though - sweet and reliable and not spooky.
- 12.2hh mare. Arrived age 6 with dangerous ground manners. Had a sore wolf tooth and a complete lack of trust. Is, a year later, a complete cuddle bug who you can totally rely on in all situations.
-14hh gelding. Rearing habit due to anxiety; pushy on the ground. Ran the energy off him and gave him a settled herd and some tricks to distract him if nervous. Doing really well so far. So sweet - he will make a novice safe pony one day.
 
Is he a New Forest? If so then yes they can be right Kn*bs 🤣.

You have to be firm but fair, as I've been told once it's easier to train horses you don't like as you're often clearer to them as you don't baby them. This is not me saying be mean, but you need to let him know what the boundaries are and enforce them. If he gets in your space he's quickly corrected and backed up, if he even moves a hoof towards you again, he is backed up. Etc. It takes a little bit of effort but worth it in the end.
 
Give him a quick once over (teeth, saddle etc) they can change very quickly at that age, then send him away to a pro.
Bringing on young horses is a specialty- some are easier than others and I would urge you not to inadvertently allow the behaviour to become ingrained through inexperience.
 
I feel your pain we have 2 young Foresters & yes theyve both been tricky in very different ways, one mare one gelding. Im not sure which area you are in but we have many freelance riders who Ive had help me with them over the years & its really helped to have their advise, 2nd opinion, sounding board, guidance, plus you dont feel youre in it alone!
If I was you I would start with scouring facebook in your area as there's always posts asking for recommendations, then get somebody out to help you assess you both & see where you want to go from there.
It could be that he's bored or just realized you dont have any boundaries so he pushes them to his advantage.
We have used TRT & natural horsemanship on both ours.
I think youve done really well so far but you now need some help & there's no harm in getting that help to put you both on the right path to happiness.
 
ihatework said:
Give him a quick once over (teeth, saddle etc) they can change very quickly at that age, then send him away to a pro.
Bringing on young horses is a specialty- some are easier than others and I would urge you not to inadvertently allow the behaviour to become ingrained through inexperience.
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All has been checked and saddle recently fitted.
I have tried to contact so many people about backing him and I'm just not getting anywhere, no one wants to come back to me it seems.
I did have one come back offering two sessions a week, is that enough?
 
bubsqueaks said:
I feel your pain we have 2 young Foresters & yes theyve both been tricky in very different ways, one mare one gelding. Im not sure which area you are in but we have many freelance riders who Ive had help me with them over the years & its really helped to have their advise, 2nd opinion, sounding board, guidance, plus you dont feel youre in it alone!
If I was you I would start with scouring facebook in your area as there's always posts asking for recommendations, then get somebody out to help you assess you both & see where you want to go from there.
It could be that he's bored or just realized you dont have any boundaries so he pushes them to his advantage.
We have used TRT & natural horsemanship on both ours.
I think youve done really well so far but you now need some help & there's no harm in getting that help to put you both on the right path to happiness.
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Thank you. I'm based in the New Forest. I have contacted several recommendations and only one has responded.
 
GrassChop said:
All has been checked and saddle recently fitted.
I have tried to contact so many people about backing him and I'm just not getting anywhere, no one wants to come back to me it seems.
I did have one come back offering two sessions a week, is that enough?
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Id say 2 sessions a week is okay given you have already sat on him & you can be riding him in between yes. Have you tried contacting a few of the Studs to see who theyd recommend - Im pretty sure Wendy at Hollybrooke Stud would know of somebody who could help as they are on the New Forest Committee too & have many connections.
 
bubsqueaks said:
Id say 2 sessions a week is okay given you have already sat on him & you can be riding him in between yes. Have you tried contacting a few of the Studs to see who theyd recommend - Im pretty sure Wendy at Hollybrooke Stud would know of somebody who could help as they are on the New Forest Committee too & have many connections.
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Thank you. I'll have a look at doing that too!
 
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