Neglect... how to handle it tactfully?

metalmare

metalmare

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I would welcome advice on the following.

My yard owner loves her horses but is struggling financially. A lad who is helping care for them called me over earlier to ask my opinion on a pony which he thought was stiff (it was). I don't always make time to look closely at her horses but I was genuinely shocked when I saw its feet... they are so long they are beginning to curl.

I want to be upfront as I was pretty blunt in what I said to the lad and it's not my way to go behind people's backs, but I also want to be tactful. I don't doubt that once it is raised something will be done, but it can't be soon enough!

I checked the other horses - they're okay.

How would you handle it?

I'm thinking just a casual, "XXX is looking a bit uncomfy... I think he needs a trim." No lectures or cross words!
 
When is your farrier due? Would it be worth you saying something along the lines of "Bert is coming to do mine on Wednesday, do you want him to look at Dobbin, while he is here?"
Gets the message across and offers a solution, all at the same time. :)
 
metalmare said:
I would welcome advice on the following.

My yard owner loves her horses but is struggling financially. A lad who is helping care for them called me over earlier to ask my opinion on a pony which he thought was stiff (it was). I don't always make time to look closely at her horses but I was genuinely shocked when I saw its feet... they are so long they are beginning to curl.

I want to be upfront as I was pretty blunt in what I said to the lad and it's not my way to go behind people's backs, but I also want to be tactful. I don't doubt that once it is raised something will be done, but it can't be soon enough!

I checked the other horses - they're okay.

How would you handle it?

ETA - if horse appears in pain/lame then I wouldn't drag it out so much - I would probably mention straight away that you have noticed a problem, and that they need a farrier asap.

I'm thinking just a casual, "XXX is looking a bit uncomfy... I think he needs a trim." No lectures or cross words!
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I would do as YorksG suggests, and mention one day that the farrier is coming at some point, and ask if she wants them to sort out said horse's feet. If response is not as hoped, I would (provided horse isn't lame - though with you saying he is stiff I do wonder) leave it a week before mentioning that you have noticed they are too long, and ask again if she wants the number for the farrier etc.

If still no positive outcome, I would outright tell them that you are going to have to report it.

I have been in this situation a few times on my yard over the past year, and I am afraid once the diplomatic approach has failed a couple of times, then I am pretty darn blunt where it comes to a horse's welfare.
 
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Yes, she's not due for a few weeks yet, but still it might be enough to prompt... I know she won't use mine as she's expensive but it might trigger her to get her own out soon.
 
Moomin1 said:
I would do as YorksG suggests, and mention one day that the farrier is coming at some point, and ask if she wants them to sort out said horse's feet. If response is not as hoped, I would (provided horse isn't lame - though with you saying he is stiff I do wonder) leave it a week before mentioning that you have noticed they are too long, and ask again if she wants the number for the farrier etc.

If still no positive outcome, I would outright tell them that you are going to have to report it.

I have been in this situation a few times on my yard over the past year, and I am afraid once the diplomatic approach has failed a couple of times, then I am pretty darn blunt where it comes to a horse's welfare.
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Yes, that sounds sensible as a kind of staged approach.

She spends a fortune a supplements that have goodness knows what impact, I can't imagine how she has overlooked something so fundamental.

I suspect as she doesn't pick feet out / inspect them closely and the other horses are okay she simply hasn't noticed and, if that is so, hopefully one prompt should sort it.

Hard NOT to notice though!
 
metalmare said:
Yes, that sounds sensible as a kind of staged approach.

She spends a fortune a supplements that have goodness knows what impact, I can't imagine how she has overlooked something so fundamental.

I suspect as she doesn't pick feet out / inspect them closely and the other horses are okay she simply hasn't noticed and, if that is so, hopefully one prompt should sort it.

Hard NOT to notice though!
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Mm yes the mind boggles with some people believe me.

Hopefully she will take the hint and sort it.

Let us know how you get on. Good luck. :)
 
I will. She's away at present so pony will have to bear out a couple more days, but at least he's had his feet picked out today.
 
Um, sorry to be blunt here, but isn't picking out feet every day a fundamental task of horse management????

FFS the ONE thing which cannot be neglected - is feet! Picking out feet, whilst you might well be able to get away with skipping it for a day or two, is an excellent opportunity of seeing what's going on with a horse's foot - which is why obviously your YO has missed the fact that the feet need trimming.

If YO is spending money on supplements and neglecting to get the feet trimmed, then frankly she needs her head examining.

Don't envy you in this situation OP; whatever you do you won't be thanked. But agree that the polite approach, initially, might be worth a go.
 
I think above suggestions are good and maybe if you get talking about it you could say it like 'his feet obviously grow really fast'. Does this pony get ridden? I'm sure there are people on here who do their own trimming, maybe she should learn? Obviously gone a bit too far for a bit of a rasp now.

It's not some sort of semi wild pony that goes crazy when the farrier comes is it?

Oh and I don't pick my horses feet out every day, they live out and are full of mud the moment they put their foot down. I keep a good eye on them and never had any problems with thrush etc.
 
Oh thats really tactful, someones got ponies that she spends loads of money on and generally well kept. Ones got long feet, could be for some reason, they grow faster, or they got missed last time, what ever. She ignores your hint so you report her. I would have you off the yard faster than you could blink.
I do not pick my horses hooves out daily either, shod or not. Wild ponies do not get their hooves picked out and in 40 plus of not picking out feet I have never had one with thrush either.
You learn more about a horses soundness and general well being by watching how it stands, reacts to the herd and generally moves. I think you have too much time.
 
honetpot said:
Oh thats really tactful, someones got ponies that she spends loads of money on and generally well kept. Ones got long feet, could be for some reason, they grow faster, or they got missed last time, what ever. She ignores your hint so you report her. I would have you off the yard faster than you could blink.
I do not pick my horses hooves out daily either, shod or not. Wild ponies do not get their hooves picked out and in 40 plus of not picking out feet I have never had one with thrush either.
You learn more about a horses soundness and general well being by watching how it stands, reacts to the herd and generally moves. I think you have too much time.
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It's feet are curling up for goodness sake. This is not a wild pony, and it is now looking uncomfortable/stiff.

I give up with this forum sometimes. After reading similar nonsense from a different poster on welfare matters earlier on, I am beginning to doubt the integrity of some people on here.
 
I'd do as yorksg suggests. If she was genuinely struggling, I'd offer to lend her the cost of a trim for a few weeks so pony didn't have to wait, however I can't think of many supplements that cost less than a trim. She needs to sort her priorities.
 
Have to say, I agree with your last comment, Moomin1. Some members on HHO do come across as unecessarily rude, imo. This is counterproductive to constructive discussion.
 
Burmilla said:
Have to say, I agree with your last comment, Moomin1. Some members on HHO do come across as unecessarily rude, imo. This is counterproductive to constructive discussion.
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Whether you think I am rude or not Burmilla, matters not to me, because I post exactly what I think. Where a horse's welfare is of concern then no, I will not hold back.

If that makes me a bad person, so be it. It will never make me as bad as the people who fail to look after their animals properly.;)
 
I don't think you are rude, Moomin1 - quite the contrary! Read what I posted, please. I was commenting, as you appeared to be, at post #11, on the tone of honetpot's contribution.
 
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Burmilla said:
I don't think you are rude, Moomin1 - quite the contrary! Read what I posted, please. I was commenting, as you appeared to be, at post #11, on the tone of honetpot's contribution.
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Oops, I beg your pardon Burmilla! I am so used to people disagreeing with me
on here that I took your post to be sarcastic. Apologies. :o
 
Agreed moomin1.

I would probably not be so diplomatic and say the farriers coming, I'm concerned at the length of the horses hoof, want to book him in? If a no then report.

As for not picking out feet. With shod horse or even barefoot horses, I check for stocks, puncture wounds, brushing and corns etc. its not just about the risk of thrush. No foot, no horse.
 
Thinking diplomatically... If it were me I would ring her sounding flustered, tell her you brought the pony in and it came in very lame and pottery. You are very worried something might be wrong, and would she like your farrier to look at it when he comes? Though you think it may need seeing to sooner, emphasising that you are worried as it's 'desperately lame' - bit of exaggeration might make her realise.
Can you get someone else on the yard to comment to her that it's not sound as well? Maybe hearing it from a few people may help?
 
I'm trying to deal with a similar situation where YO's horses are not in a good shape. Underweight and health and hoof issues. We've tried making suggestions and dropping hints etc but most of it is ignored. Recently friend and I used a vet visit to our cob as an excuse to get one of them examined. We parked the poorly horse next go ours on the yard,coughing with snotty nose, so that we had an 'excuse' to get him examined. Same issues here with money too. It's upsetting and frustrating and we are now at the point of moving out and letting her get on with it. However myself plus another friend are very attached to two of the horses so if we do that we know that it's the horses who will end up worse off.
So maybe depends on how well you know her. Perhaps if farrier is coming out then contact her and say you've noticed that X horse's feet need attention and ask if you should send the farrier around to look at them. Good luck with getting it dealt with. :)
 
Wld it not be easier initially if the lad engaged to look after them told YO? I wld expect someone to report back on what he has done / noted with horses in his care. My helper always tells me of anything untoward & what she's done...minor cuts etc. If this didn't produce result then you cld follow up with your farrier suggestion?
 
honetpot said:
Oh thats really tactful, someones got ponies that she spends loads of money on and generally well kept. Ones got long feet, could be for some reason, they grow faster, or they got missed last time, what ever. She ignores your hint so you report her. I would have you off the yard faster than you could blink.
I do not pick my horses hooves out daily either, shod or not. Wild ponies do not get their hooves picked out and in 40 plus of not picking out feet I have never had one with thrush either.
You learn more about a horses soundness and general well being by watching how it stands, reacts to the herd and generally moves. I think you have too much time.
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I am sorry but this nonsense , if you can spot a small stone wedged under the shoe or working it way into the white line in the unshod with the horse standing you have xray eyes if you where not picking out feet you would see the thrush would you.
The comparison with wild horses Is plain silly wild and feral horses move enormous distances and as a consequence wear their feet in a way our constantly contained horses never ever can.
My horses have there feet picked up a minimum of twice a day often three times
Because of this issues never get to the state where they affect how the horses stands and moves by then it's too late you have a sore horse.
That's why we pick the feet out.
 
I have found myself in a similar situation.

I do know that it is quite out of order to do things to other peoples horses, but, its the horse that matters.

Anyway, the YM used the same Farrier as me, he told me that she only had him to one of her horses, the other got left, she told him she could only afford to have the one done, he told me what she said.

I kept look out, and he went in and trimmed her other pony. It didn't take him that long. He didn't get paid for it in cash, but he got paid in respect, and I would never hesitate to recommend him for his very good work and very kind heart.

I'm not suggesting you do that thou, its wrong to do things to other peoples horses without their permission. Although I don't feel we did the wrong thing.
 
Op you are in a very difficult position if you do not proceed with extreme caution you risk being asked to move .
When I was working in welfare we would everything we could to try to protect the identiy of the person who contacted us but it's very difficult in this sort if situation as people are not stupid and can work out who it's likely to be.
If you use the direct approach is going to be immpossible to protect your identity if you feel the need to call a welfare org.
Get your farrier to 'look' and comment is a good idea if you can arrange it but it sounds it might not come soon enough this is very difficult for you.
 
I would initially get the lad to tell YO as soon as she gets back, saying has looked lame at times while she was away.

If that doesnt spur her into action straight away, I would mention it her, again saying 'noticed X is getting lamer, my farrier is available if you re struggling to get yours out....' I cant see her asking you to leave, you re not being unreasonable at all.
 
Have been in a similar situation, the horses had been left without farrier for a very long time, but were believed to be Gypsy ponies chatted to the owner one day who told me that he is waiting for the curl to drop off:confused:

I think you need to be careful in the way you handle it , but you sound sensible OP :) goodluck x
 
In my view a YO should be setting the example of good horse care and maintenance.

If not however is he / she to tackle liveries that don't look after their animals.

In her shoes and she can't afford proper care I'd be looking to
re evaluate my livery fees as she's not making ends meet.
 
I'd probably go at it from a slightly different angle and ask if her farrier is away at the moment. If she says yes, great, you can try something along the lines of, "thought he must be, Dobbin looks a bit long and your chap is normally really good at trimming up," if she says no go more down the lines of, "oh sorry, I thought you must be struggling to get hold of him as Dobbin's looking quite long in the toe, was going to say to give mine a ring but if your chap can do him all the better as he seems to like him...is he booked to come soon?" Me being a wimp I'd probably add some general conversation, something along the lines of "wish I could get mine to grow that quick," but of course that only works if you have a horse who doesn't need the farrier every 2 weeks!!
 
OP are you sure the pony doesn't have lami and that is why it is looking stiff? Just as rocking back on heels would allow the feet to be curling up etc too.

I'm just suggesting it because I think that would make the situation a bit more urgent.
 
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