Neglect - Unsure what to do next

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Jackie79

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Hello all,

I have an awful situation, which I find very upsetting.
I have a very elderly family member who does not live near me, who also lives with some other members of my family (who are middle aged and able bodied)

They have 13 x Shetlands and 1 x Section A (which is very elderly)
I have reported them for neglect to various organizations – RSPCA, BHS, and an Equine Welfare Charity.
The BHS did pay them a visit last year, but said everything seemed okay.

I have now found out that one has died and has been lying the field for around 8 days now, and another is “walking on its elbows” their description, as its hooves are so long.

What can I do?
Shall I report them again?? I just feel nothing is ever done, and I’m wasting time while these poor animals suffer
I feel so helpless.
 
Report them again.

If possible email them photos as this will then form a paper trail of evidence of what you have raised, so if they do nothing, they can be held to account at a later date.

Make sure that world horse welfare are the first call you make (I am not sure if the welfare charity you mention was WHW but they are normally better than RSPCA).

Dont give up on behalf of the horses.

What were the conditions/condition of the horses like the first time you reported? Much the same as now or not as bad?
 
Jackie79 said:
Hello all,

I have an awful situation, which I find very upsetting.
I have a very elderly family member who does not live near me, who also lives with some other members of my family (who are middle aged and able bodied)

They have 13 x Shetlands and 1 x Section A (which is very elderly)
I have reported them for neglect to various organizations – RSPCA, BHS, and an Equine Welfare Charity.
The BHS did pay them a visit last year, but said everything seemed okay.

I have now found out that one has died and has been lying the field for around 8 days now, and another is “walking on its elbows” their description, as its hooves are so long.

What can I do?
Shall I report them again?? I just feel nothing is ever done, and I’m wasting time while these poor animals suffer
I feel so helpless.
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I very much doubt the horse is 'walking on it's elbows' or it would be sliding along on it's stomach!! ;) I imagine what this third party has witnessed is the fetlock joint being lowered due to long hooves.

What did you report them for last year? I imagine if three charities visited then and all said the same - that everything was fine, then either they were looking at the wrong animals or the complaint was incorrect.

However, that was last year - so things may well not be ok now - give the same charities a call again and report it.
 
It was World Horse Welfare I contacted.
To be fair to the BHS they actually have seemed to be the most proactive and helpful. But these animals have still not been helpd.

The conditions are the same – nothing has changed.

They are kept at grass throughout the year which is fine, but the field has a lot of ragwort, and inadequate fencing.
They are not wormed, seen by a farrier, nor had their teeth checked in a very long time.
They are pretty much left to their own devices, which worry me when some suffer from conditions such a sweet itch, mud fever etc.
 
Phone DEFRA because it is illegal to leave any animal dead in a field let alone where there are other animals grazing by it. It is neglect and I think your very brave to report it seeing as they are family, its not an easy thing to do. Keep ringing animal welfare charities and hopefully you can get through to them. they are actually quite bad about acting on abuse as I have found before and they won't do anything if the horses have food and water.
 
Jackie79 said:
It was World Horse Welfare I contacted.
To be fair to the BHS they actually have seemed to be the most proactive and helpful. But these animals have still not been helpd.

The conditions are the same – nothing has changed.

They are kept at grass throughout the year which is fine, but the field has a lot of ragwort, and inadequate fencing.
They are not wormed, seen by a farrier, nor had their teeth checked in a very long time.
They are pretty much left to their own devices, which worry me when some suffer from conditions such a sweet itch, mud fever etc.
Click to expand...

With regard the worming - there is no way any organisation can do anything about that unless the horse is deemed to be suffering as a result of a lack of worming. If the horses are in good body condition and are showing no signs of ill health then all they can do is offer advice to the owner on this matter.

If there is ragwort in the field annually, then you need to make a call at the time when the ragwort is present - there is no point you calling a charity and telling them that in June of next year there will be ragwort - they need to actually see it in order to do anything about it. People quite often talk a load of rubbish in order to get someone in trouble so they simply cannot take peoples word for it in these matters - they need hard evidence. Same with the sweet itch - no point ringing them in winter and saying nothing will be done about it in the summer when it appears. You need to ring them in the summer when the horse has symptoms and isn't getting treatment. Same with mud fever.

As for the hooves. I am afraid if three different charities have attended and told you that they are fine, then I find it hard to believe there is much of an issue. May be wrong of course - but three seperate charities saying the same is too much of a coincidence.
 
Uraeus said:
Phone DEFRA because it is illegal to leave any animal dead in a field let alone where there are other animals grazing by it. It is neglect and I think your very brave to report it seeing as they are family, its not an easy thing to do. Keep ringing animal welfare charities and hopefully you can get through to them. they are actually quite bad about acting on abuse as I have found before and they won't do anything if the horses have food and water.
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That's absolute rubbish. Most charities follow the five freedoms and apply any action to that. Ok, the action you want them to take may not always happen - but that's the action YOU want them to take, not the action the law states they CAN take, or a vet states they think you should take, which is what any action an officer takes is based on legally.

I find it incredible people actually still say that charities won't act if there is food and water. It's a sweeping statement and very incorrect. There are hundreds of horses removed daily across the country, and prosecutions taking place daily, it's just the general public don't always get to hear about them, or take the time to look at statistics or individual cases.

As for leaving a dead horse in a field - how is that neglect?!! I may have misunderstood your post - maybe you meant that the rest of the allegation is neglect. But leaving a dead horse in a field is not neglect!

OP with regard that you need to contact trading standards animal health - it is an offence to leave a carcass laying around for that long.
 
amymay said:
Get the WHW out again.

Things seems to have deteriorated very quickly.
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No they don't - she says conditions are the same.

We don't know how the horse died - she just says it's dead according to a third party. Could be old age.

Nobody can make assumptions based on a single person's post.

It strikes me if the conditions are the same now as when WHW visited and said everything was ok, that there are some exaggerations going on.
 
amymay said:
Perhaps.....



An assumption made on a single post?
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Not at all - OP has said that WHW or BHS have said everything was ok. I take their word for it. As most people on HHO say - WHW and BHS are fantastic so I doubt they would just ignore such serious allegations of a horse walking on it's 'elbows' and say everything is in fact ok!
 
As others have said just call them all again .
A dead pony being found in a field does not necessarily mean a welfare issue ( clearly not removing it as soon as it can be arranged is not on) ponys and horses are found dead all the time.
However long feet are not acceptable , ragwort ,unmanaged sweet itch would all be a reason for a visit just you say the BHS visited and advised was probally all they could but they will visit again if you call them.
How long is it since you saw the ponys( I am sorry if have missed you saying that) a long distance complaint when you have not seen the ponys for months will not sound as serious as if you can ring and say chestnut Shetland very long feet bay welshy sweet itch etc .
 
Moomin1 said:
As most people on HHO say - WHW and BHS are fantastic so I doubt they would just ignore such serious allegations of a horse walking on it's 'elbows' and say everything is in fact ok!
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Really valid point.

But, if the OP has a real concern, then it needs to be followed up.
 
It's the weekend tomorrow if I where you I would be getting in my car at 5am and driving over and trying to fix it TBH.
Surely that's would be better than relying on others to fix a family problem.
 
Jackie79 said:
The conditions are the same – nothing has changed.
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I think people are getting confused over this quote - I *think* OP means that the management of the horses hasn't changed. The dead horse and the overgrown feet are of course 'changed' from last year.

Back onto welfare agencies, if BHS are the ones who visited last time then they would be my first port of call. Remember though, all they can do is attempt to have minimum requirements met, not ideals.
 
Inadequate fencing (In your opinion) and weed infested paddocks are not neglect if the animals are 'ok' - its an advice and management issue for any of the inspectors that get called out.

A dead animal in the field & other poor ones should provoke a pretty instant visit if reported.
Call the BHS welfare dept NOW on 02476 840571 or 02476 840574
 
Jackie79 said:
Hello all,

I have an awful situation, which I find very upsetting.
I have a very elderly family member who does not live near me, who also lives with some other members of my family (who are middle aged and able bodied)

They have 13 x Shetlands and 1 x Section A (which is very elderly)
I have reported them for neglect to various organizations – RSPCA, BHS, and an Equine Welfare Charity.
The BHS did pay them a visit last year, but said everything seemed okay.

I have now found out that one has died and has been lying the field for around 8 days now, and another is “walking on its elbows” their description, as its hooves are so long.

What can I do?
Shall I report them again?? I just feel nothing is ever done, and I’m wasting time while these poor animals suffer
I feel so helpless.
Click to expand...
Have you seem them yourself? It isn't easy trying to report someone else's report. Get the person contacting you to report them if you haven't seen them yourself.
 
rhino said:
I think people are getting confused over this quote - I *think* OP means that the management of the horses hasn't changed. The dead horse and the overgrown feet are of course 'changed' from last year.

Back onto welfare agencies, if BHS are the ones who visited last time then they would be my first port of call. Remember though, all they can do is attempt to have minimum requirements met, not ideals.
Click to expand...

That's spot on managing the callers expectations of what we could demand from an owner was a really difficult when I was a welfare officer I had to accept conditions I would never accept for my own horses.
I mean if the a family member can't get them to care properly is not going to be a breeze for a complete stranger.
Unfortunatly being dragged into family disputes was not uncommon either.
 
Personally I would be driving down to see them myself, from what you have said someone has told you they aren't in good nick. Have you talked to your family about this? Obviously I don't know the ins and outs, but that would be my first port of call. As for ragwort, I was pulling 15 barrowloads out a week in my field for what seemed like months, I dare say many people would say I never did it, but it was done every week.
 
Goldenstar said:
That's spot on managing the callers expectations of what we could demand from an owner was a really difficult when I was a welfare officer I had to accept conditions I would never accept for my own horses.
I mean if the a family member can't get them to care properly is not going to be a breeze for a complete stranger.
Unfortunatly being dragged into family disputes was not uncommon either.
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Agree, officers get slated for not doing what callers expect of them. This includes people actually going hysterical on the phone saying they are going to the papers because an officer has not removed an animal which in their words is 'emaciated' but is in fact overweight but has just dropped from being morbidly obese to being overweight! The fact that it had lost weight 'must' mean that it was emaciated! :rolleyes:
 
I thought that too! if it was my family, I would be down there for a visit, having a look for myself, seeing what could be done (worm them while there, organising foot trims...), having a chat with relatives to see if they could be persuaded to rehome some and make life easier... Surely trying to work with them rather than against them would do more good? I wouldn't be calling charities out or going off other people's opinion until I had seen everything..
 
The last time I reported this was in September 2011 and before that late 2010

I don’t want to get anyone in trouble – this is a VERY elderly person we are talking about who owns them

The reason I know about the dead pony is they asked my father if he could help bury it.
I realize that is might have died from old age – all they said was its eye was missing when they found it.

They are not under weight – if anything they are tubby (the charity that visited said one looked like it may have slight laminitis) – they have a lot of grazing.

They don’t have the sweet itch now, but come summer they have sores on them, where they just rub themselves raw.

It is not random people opinions I am getting, it is my younger sisters & f
She visited last month along with my father, and she thinks the Shetland with the very long feet would need to be put down, as she thinks the pedal bond has rotated.

I understand people are saying it is a family problem and I should fix it, but I don't know how?
Who is going to pay the farrier or vet, and wormers?
I cannot afford it, and they refuse to pay.
 
Jackie79 said:
The last time I reported this was in September 2011 and before that late 2010

I don’t want to get anyone in trouble – this is a VERY elderly person we are talking about who owns them

The reason I know about the dead pony is they asked my father if he could help bury it.
I realize that is might have died from old age – all they said was its eye was missing when they found it.

They are not under weight – if anything they are tubby (the charity that visited said one looked like it may have slight laminitis) – they have a lot of grazing.

They don’t have the sweet itch now, but come summer they have sores on them, where they just rub themselves raw.

It is not random people opinions I am getting, it is my younger sisters & f
She visited last month along with my father, and she thinks the Shetland with the very long feet would need to be put down, as she thinks the pedal bond has rotated.

I understand people are saying it is a family problem and I should fix it, but I don't know how?
Who is going to pay the farrier or vet, and wormers?
I cannot afford it, and they refuse to pay.
Click to expand...

So a charity should?
Get the family together sort out how to proceed together spilt the cost between you all and sort it out the elderly relatives are not alone there's you your dad your sister at the very least to get together and sort out this family issue.
If your sister thinks one needs putting down call the vet and get it looked at and
PTS if necessary.
 
Jackie79 said:
I understand people are saying it is a family problem and I should fix it, but I don't know how?
Who is going to pay the farrier or vet, and wormers?
I cannot afford it, and they refuse to pay.
Click to expand...

I think you're in a very difficult position. And that is what the welfare authorities are there for.

It's all very well for Goldenstar to say 'a charity should?', but it's not always as simple as that. But I do think the idea of a collective response from the family would help.

Why not go down that route first, and then think about bringing the welfare authorities in?

Regardless of peoples feelings or opinions on the situation - the animals may be suffering (or at danger of), and that obviously can't be allowed to continue/happen.
 
My parents have removed two ponies from him before, paid vet’s & farrier bills to get them better, and even re-homed one.
Then he lets the stallion out in the mares field, and we have few more to deal with the next year.

They have had enough and have washed their hands of the whole thing.

Its not as straight forward as get the family to split the bill.

There are three children in total - two boys and their sister.

The son who actually lives with him, will not pay anything as he says he cannot afford it.

The daughter is currently battling cancer so has her own things to deal with (and she lives a good 4hrs away and has her own stud to deal with)


My sister is a student so she isn’t exactly flush with cash.
 
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