Never thought I'd be asking this, PTS issue

Box_Of_Frogs

Box_Of_Frogs

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 May 2007
Messages
6,517
Location
Deepest Wales
Visit site
Didn't want to hijack previous post about dreadful pts decision but I have a similar problem and I feel myself inching towards a place I don't want to be but can't see a way out of. My retired veteran is somewhere between 28 and 30. He has 1 eye (no problem), Cushings, only 50% max working lungs. Teeth ok but he's not holding his weight well and is leaving his hay in favour of eating the majority of his calories as hard feed. No grass in the fields. Mud up to ya. His Prascend alone is £2 per day, livery and haylage about average, hard feed bill at least £30 a week. I have a 2nd 21yr old riding horse out on part loan (I pay 95% of costs!) and 6 shetlands (2 rescued standards, 1 rescued mini and 3 show minis). Their monthly cost has trebled since October, no grass, haylage, hard feed. OH retires at the end of March and is giving me serious earache (which I do understand) about finances and reducing the number of horses. Any other solution doesn't reduce the monthly outgoing enough. My sweet little cob on loan may have to go too, either re-homed or proper loan. What do people believe is reasonable, fair, kind, compassionate when thinking the unthinkable about your horse of a lifetime, your best friend? I'm a firm believer in the "better a week too soon than a day too late" school of thought but he could go on for another year or more yet. Or he could go tomorrow! He has no quality of life health problems yet, just the stuff that comes with extreme old age and that costs the earth.

What in god's name do I do and if I have to pts, will I ever be able to look people in the eye again, myself included? Any thoughts welcomed. Desperate and wretched.
 
It's horrid isn't it? I'm in similar situation too. Mare has incurable but stable disease that costs a fortune in drugs, feed ect. Plus am about to move 200+ miles away and not sure I can justify keeping her going. Not sure how I'd live with it though if I PTS for financial reasons :(
Sorry no help to you op. but whatever decision you make will be the right one.
 
Sorry to say he does have health issues that limit the quality of his life even if they are old age ones. It is kinder to him and all the others to let him go why on earth would you feel guilty. If he was 7 and healthy and you just decided you had had enough then yes it would make you feel guilty but he is old had a happy life and is now in failing health peace needs to come to all at some point and as you say tomorrow he could die in agony or simply drift away no one can see the future but we all have to make the chances of suffering as low as possible for our loved ones even OH when it come to that.
Some may say I am hard hearted but I have become a realist and quality of life has in my mind to come before quantity can he still have the freedoms of life can he still run about buck and kick, can he groom with his field mates and play, can he still eat and enjoy his food is he totally pain free. Can he maintain his weight and keep warm. Does he enjoy his life some hate being retired. If these things all apply and you can financially support him then ok but you are struggling and need to think long and hard how each one affects the other
 
I lost count? Is it 9 you have? It's a lot of horseflesh and I can see why you are worried. I sympathise with you so much as I have had elderly horses with issues and it's a horrible decision to be facing. I was perhaps fortunate with my last darling old crock. She had arthritis issues which were getting worse, and yet every time I nearly made the decision she seemed to perk up and be sound and look wonderful. Then she suddenly went down with a twisted gut and it was curtains - so I was spared the decision.

One thing that intrigued me. How is the £30 a week to feed the old boy made up? It does sound an enormous amount of money to me.....

Would one solution be to let the showing standard Shetlands go? If they are of that quality they presumably would be desirable. Again, though I currently have 2 miniature Shetlands as liveries, I have no knowledge of how easy they would be to sell - or ideally, to loan out.

In these hard times, if you love your horses/ponies, I would be very reluctant to sell unless you have to. You just don't know what is going to happen down the line (through no fault of the ponies or their new owners).
 
You have my sympathy OP. The fact is your financial circumstances are changing. I'm assuming there is nothing realistically you can do about that. The horse may have quality of life at the moment, but with your change in circumstances that will not be the case any more. Without his medication and sufficient hard feed he will quickly go downhill. The way I see it you can either wait until he starts to suffer, or you can PTS now.

The only other long term solution I can see is if you can rehome some of the others instead. But unless they are riding horses nobody is likely to want them. It really is a hard decision to PTS for financial reasons. I think you need to make the decision in your own time scale, at a suitable point in the year taking into account weather and grazing conditions as well as when the financial impact is going to occur, so that you don't feel pushed into it by your husband and end up resenting him.

Is there any way you can rent a field with decent grazing somewhere to give him (and you) one more summer? Or has the critical point already been reached? At least you have so far managed to give your horse a happy life for many years with an owner who cares. Plenty of horses are not so lucky.
 
No magical solution, but just wanted to send my support.
PTS is horrible for those left, but not those we are sending on. Fact is £ doesn't stretch. You are not looking at doing a bad thing. Should you decide that route, it is a perfectly acceptable kind end for an old friend. No one has endless resources so tough decisions need to be faced. They are unimaginably hard for you to make, but not for one moment should you feel a bad person or someone who is letting them down. You have given them every kindness.
Hugs
 
BoF I've been through this twice now with oldies, one at 30 one just before Christmas at 27. Neither were through financial reasons but that didn't make it any easier on anyone.

The most recent one sounded a lot like yours, not eating, trying everything to find what he would eat which turned out to be hard food, Cushings meds, constant abscess issues, losing weight in front of our eyes. It very quickly became a near welfare issue due to his weight loss.

At that age they often have internal problems you don't know about (both of mine had blood workups done which came back clear) until they have gone. The first one was riddled with tumours which were strangulating his gut and internal organs and if he hand not have gone when he did then he surely would have had a very painful death shortly afterwards. The other as it turned out had a nearly totally shot liver and enlarged spleen and again wouldn't have survived much longer on his own.

The emotional toll it takes on those looking after these oldies is enormous, and you don't realise how great it is until they are gone and sorry to say to some extent it is a relief to have that burden lifted.

At the ages we are talking about there is no doubt they have had a very long and well cared for life, and it certainly isn't before their time to go. Don't feel guilty for thinking it may be time, for either for your horse or for yourself to let him go. The demands on you sound huge and very worrying, awful as it sounds but you only have so many emotional and financial resources and can only spread them so thin.

I know you are aware that there are worse things than a timely and dignified death, both for the owner and the horse. I can empathise with you, I really do :(

J x
 
Horses live in the moment, they don't make plans about what they will be doing next month and they don't think about the future. IMHO all responsible horse owners have a duty to consider all options when it comes to their horses long term future, if comfortable retirement (for what ever reason, money, horse personality etc.) isn't possible then there really is only one alternative.

It's certainly not easy but that doesn't make it a bad decision - good luck at this difficult time.
 
Sorry to be blunt, I can't see the dilemma. He's not holding weight, he can't eat hay, 50% lung capacity. It sounds to me as if he is ready to go on that alone. You are being too hard on yourself I think. It won't be easy but do it before things go further down hill, with his health and your financial health.
 
I realise you will probably feel guilty if you do PTS but you shouldn't.
Look at it realistically - he is old/ill, he costs a lot to keep him going, and if one half of your relationship is not going to be working, you will not be able to afford to keep his care at the standard you are now. Would you be able to rehome ? I doubt it. Would you want to? I doubt that you would trust anyone else to care for him as you have done.
Your only other options are to PTS, send him to a market, or to keep him alive but not provide the care he needs. I cannot believe you would want the second or third options, you obviously care very much for this horse and want to do your best by him. That only leaves you one choice. If you decide to PTS you can choose the time, spoil him rotten for his last few days, and let him go with dignity.
 
The 50% lung capacity would swing it for me. That must feel terrible for a flight animal. Let him go. It is the right thing to do. Of course you will feel guilty, even if you shouldn't. I always do, even when I know 100% it is the right thing to do. It is taking away life and that is bound to have a profound affect on anyone with a heart. But you would be doing the right thing for him.
 
Nothing wrong with giving him one last good day and letting him go. The lung problem alone would swing it for me.

Better a day too soon than a minute too late.
 
I feel for you facing this decision. I have a 20 year old pony with Cushings who is kept reasonably well on 2.5 prascend a day. This time last year I had reached a point where I was seriously considering pts as I just could not afford her medication , luckily for me my daughter started working (as a vet) so was able to obtain and pay for the prascend, however if this hadn't been the case I don't think my girl would still be here now.
If you factor in the health problems your lad has, I actually think it would be in his best interests to pts, and suspect the fact that you are aware of the financial aspect as well is what is making you feel so guilty. Read your post about his health (ignoring the money aspect) as if someone else was asking the question, I think that might help you make the decision.
 
windand rain said:
Sorry to say he does have health issues that limit the quality of his life even if they are old age ones. It is kinder to him and all the others to let him go why on earth would you feel guilty. If he was 7 and healthy and you just decided you had had enough then yes it would make you feel guilty but he is old had a happy life and is now in failing health peace needs to come to all at some point and as you say tomorrow he could die in agony or simply drift away no one can see the future but we all have to make the chances of suffering as low as possible for our loved ones even OH when it come to that.
Some may say I am hard hearted but I have become a realist and quality of life has in my mind to come before quantity can he still have the freedoms of life can he still run about buck and kick, can he groom with his field mates and play, can he still eat and enjoy his food is he totally pain free. Can he maintain his weight and keep warm. Does he enjoy his life some hate being retired. If these things all apply and you can financially support him then ok but you are struggling and need to think long and hard how each one affects the other
Click to expand...

Very well put and I totally agree with it.

Put the boot on the other foot and think what you would say to other people in this same position; you'd tell them to cut down drastically and put down the old or chronically sick which are draining their resources with no chance of recovery, rehome those it is possible to do so (sell not loan out as otherwise you might find yourself landed with them later on) and only keep those that are healthy and liable to flourish on grass keep with minimal cash input from yourself. It's a no brainer if you want to keep your OH on side and a stress free atmosphere at home.
 
I know it's hard but I found my 38 year old struggling to thrive in her last winter, I was shovelling feed and medication in to her but she was struggling. I held off the decision because I thought she'd be ok but during the really bad snow she was pts during a dreadful of colic. I wish I had done it when I said I wanted to in the autumn after she had a lovely summer. Sometimes it's for the best and with the financial situation it's for the best because you will always be counting pennies and I know how hard that is when you have a sick/long term ill pony or horse.

You need to do what's best for you all xxx
 
Another one in the same position. I can't even think about it without getting upset. He seems ok, but then when I see him stumbling and stiff and spitting out chewed haylage my heart just breaks :(. He's holding his weight but only because its mild and he gets a massive amount of soaked food to live on. Everyone says how well he looks but I just worry about any pain he's in, tho he's on a danilon a day
 
It is a very hard decision, whatever one of our animals has reached that time when their health is not what it was, but they are still managing some sort of life. It does not get any easier either, no matter how often you have lived through this.

We have had to make decisions about our whole lifestyle on retirement, and it does not get any easier. If it was me, I would have a last few good days and let it go.

For me, when any of our animals no longer has the quality of life they once had and haved lived to a good age, I do not feel guilty if I let them go, why should they live in pain just so I do not feel bad.

If your major reason is financial, I do not think that is a reason to feel bad, I have also always thought that I would rather pts than let an older animal go to someone else and not know what has happened to them or risk them being treated badly.
 
B......you have given that boy YEARS of care and love.
He would understand (and probably welcome) being allowed to go, so you could keep the little ones.
Put cob on proper loan (so you are NOT paying 95% of the costs!!!).
You have no reason to cast your eyes down. Many a person could take a leaf or two from your book.
 
Maesfen said:
Put the boot on the other foot and think what you would say to other people in this same position; you'd tell them to cut down drastically and put down the old or chronically sick which are draining their resources with no chance of recovery, rehome those it is possible to do so (sell not loan out as otherwise you might find yourself landed with them later on) and only keep those that are healthy and liable to flourish on grass keep with minimal cash input from yourself. It's a no brainer if you want to keep your OH on side and a stress free atmosphere at home.
Click to expand...

I agree with Maesfen. We all have to be realistic as our circumstances change. If you were considering pts of a young, healthy rehomeable horse then you might have a reason to feel guilty but as it is you just have a difficult decision to make.
 
"Better a day too soon than a minute too late"

I think that this is as well as it can be put. It sounds as though your horse has had an amazing life, the best a horse ever could and that is all that we can do for them. If you think it is the right time then you have nothing to feel bad about.

Treasure your memories.
 
OP you are just SO compassionate that it makes me want to cry TBH; what a pity that there are other owners out there who just sell on their oldies for a pittance and don't care what happens to them.

As you say very well "better a day too soon than a week too late". (Sorry, think that was how you worded it).

Looking back with my old boy who had cushings and who's quality of life had deteriorated, I wish now that I'd made the decision sooner; I think there is always that aspect of losing a horse where you'll look back in future and think gosh why didn't I PTS sooner than I did, but you have to bear in mind your own circumstances and what is right for YOU and your horse as well.

Sorry can't offer any advice as to the "when" question: but just standing with you on this one coz have been there and know what its like.
 
Ok I am rather tearful at the moment reading/thinking about this. If you are sure the oldy is reasonably happy at the moment could you sell the showing shetlands first and then just play it by ear?
See what happens and 'go with the flow'. If he does need to be PTS then that's just something that will happen to most of us at some point. You know your horse better than anyone else...
 
OP, your initial post 90% described my own horse - I opted to PTS in October before the weather/mud/grass got any worse. I miss her so much but I have no regrets and I don't have to worry about her any more.
 
The hardest months for elderly animals are still to come this year. A horse who is already struggling with weight is only going to struggle more. A horse who cannot eat sufficient fibre is going to have huge problems retaining heat in colder temperatures. While it is always hard to say goodbye to an old friend, it is often the best and last kindness we can provide, before it becomes cruel to make them continue. Even without the financial issues, I think saying goodbye would be the best option.
 
OP, I know just how you feel :(.

I love Obi with all my heart and I will pay and pay for anything he needs.

My hubby understands and doesn't begrudge (which is why I love him so much too).

Obi is coming up 27. He has bilateral cataracts, Cushings on 2.5mg per day Prascend, poor teeth.

This winter, per month, he is going through 4 bags of Fast Fibre, 2 bags Speedibeet, 2 bags Coolstance and a bag of Spiller's HF cubes.

He pees a lot, so he is whipping through my bedding and his stable is always a mess.

He refuses to wear a turnout rug - so on bad weather days he can't go out and I have to walk him around in hand.

He now also has occasional Danilon to add to the costs.

As well as expensive, I'm finding him really labour intensive. I'm constantly shovelling wet bedding and mixing feeds as well as working full time.

I'm always worrying and fretting about 'the day' when I walk to the stable and he's down and dying :(. Every morning I check his is up and alive, before I can breathe properly......

I am flat broke for the rest of Jan and I'm worrying about petrol, food for him AND my family and how I'm going to pay this month's routine vet's bill :(

Now - if he wasn't here and I just had The Tank - he could live out and my equine costs would be tiny in comparison.

It makes me feel dirty and guilty - but I have to admit that sometimes I think about how much easier my life would be if Obi wasn't here any more......:(
 
Box_Of_Frogs said:
Didn't want to hijack previous post about dreadful pts decision but I have a similar problem and I feel myself inching towards a place I don't want to be but can't see a way out of. My retired veteran is somewhere between 28 and 30. He has 1 eye (no problem), Cushings, only 50% max working lungs. Teeth ok but he's not holding his weight well and is leaving his hay in favour of eating the majority of his calories as hard feed. No grass in the fields. Mud up to ya. His Prascend alone is £2 per day, livery and haylage about average, hard feed bill at least £30 a week. I have a 2nd 21yr old riding horse out on part loan (I pay 95% of costs!) and 6 shetlands (2 rescued standards, 1 rescued mini and 3 show minis). Their monthly cost has trebled since October, no grass, haylage, hard feed. OH retires at the end of March and is giving me serious earache (which I do understand) about finances and reducing the number of horses. Any other solution doesn't reduce the monthly outgoing enough. My sweet little cob on loan may have to go too, either re-homed or proper loan. What do people believe is reasonable, fair, kind, compassionate when thinking the unthinkable about your horse of a lifetime, your best friend? I'm a firm believer in the "better a week too soon than a day too late" school of thought but he could go on for another year or more yet. Or he could go tomorrow! He has no quality of life health problems yet, just the stuff that comes with extreme old age and that costs the earth.

What in god's name do I do and if I have to pts, will I ever be able to look people in the eye again, myself included? Any thoughts welcomed. Desperate and wretched.
Click to expand...

Personally I don't think you should have any qualms about what you need to do, your finances are your business and only you and your partner can decide where they are best spent. All of your animals I'm sure have always received the best that you can provide for them and when you can no longer provide sufficiently then you owe it to them to do what is best not only for them but for yourselves, a tight financial situation will inevitably breed contempt between you and your partner and quite rightly, your well being and relationship must come first. Some of your animals are aged and have reached the end of the line, sad but true and no one would feel you are unjust in ending their days, again better early than a tad too late, for which you will definitely feel more guilt for doing and causing more potential suffering. It's never easy, I've just made the decision for my 12 year old collie, he could have gone on, but for whose sake? Chin up, make the decisions and stick by them, no one with any common sense will judge you badly.
 
What is the old boy telling you. Is he really that happy? Or do you think he is? You have given lots of love and attention. What would you say to another owner in the same situation? They cant live forever
 
Wagtail said:
The 50% lung capacity would swing it for me. That must feel terrible for a flight animal. Let him go. It is the right thing to do. Of course you will feel guilty, even if you shouldn't. I always do, even when I know 100% it is the right thing to do. It is taking away life and that is bound to have a profound affect on anyone with a heart. But you would be doing the right thing for him.
Click to expand...

Agree. You have done him proud and would have nothing to feel guilty about.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top