New Appy - Bone Spavin Advice :(

HollyWoozle

HollyWoozle

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Apologies for the length but I am sad and in need of advice regarding bone spavins/surgery. :(

As I have posted before, my mother got a new horse in November. He is the first horse she has had for herself in over 40 years and she was amazingly excited about the purchase. He is a 16hh 6yr old Appy called Noah and was supposedly a private sale...

First off, we did not have him vetted. Please... no lectures about this as it's fair to say that we have learnt our lesson! He was not expensive and both my mother and I rode him, took videos and so forth. He was fit, muscled and forward-going and the seller seemed extremely genuine. It turns out the seller's sister is a horse dealer who has been in trouble with trading standards, especially for her dodgy foreign imports (Noah came from Denmark). With no vetting, we don't have a leg to stand on regarding the following but it is hugely disappointing nonetheless.

He arrived in November missing a shoe and was lame on this foot. We had shoe put back on and he looked OK in the field so we hacked him out gently but he was off in trot. Anyway, to cut a long story short (well, less long!), after several vet consultations he has just returned from a bone scan which shows a bone spavin in his back right. This in turn is probably causing lameness in his front right (I presume him accommodating for the discomfort somehow?) which is the lameness the vets kept noticing. The vets said they could tell from the scan that in Noah's case, this bone spavin has been present since he was a very young foal. I feel sad for him that he has been worked with this discomfort and that previous owners didn't do anything about it.

We have the option of injections, supplement and painkillers, surgery or to PTS. However, we would not PTS a horse whilst he or she had a good quality of life with us and so we think we will take the surgery option (especially as he is young). Does anyone have experience of bone spavin operations? If you have some experience of this and could tell me more about it, it'd be really useful... particularly success stories as my mother is really heartbroken about it all. She only wants to do light hacking so I am hopeful that Noah can come good for this and if not, we will give him a nice retirement.

Thank you.
 
Contact Lucyad on here - her horse had spavin in his hock and is now completely sound and going better than ever. It took a while of careful exercising (no circles, no trotting on hard ground) and she had a course of adequan but he is better than ever now.
 
So sorry to hear that you have this problem. Hugs to your Mum and you.

I know how she feels. My first horse (like your Mum, I waited a long, long time). Anyhoo, long story short: three and a half year old IDxTB mare, a blanket appy, lame for most of the time I had her, had to have her pts just about a year to the day that I got her due to chronic damage to both rear suspensory ligaments.

My horse was beyond an operation or any help, so I have all crossed that your Mum's lad responds well to treatment.

Sorry, nothing useful to add, but wanted to send hugs.
 
MrsMozart said:
So sorry to hear that you have this problem. Hugs to your Mum and you.

I know how she feels. My first horse (like your Mum, I waited a long, long time). Anyhoo, long story short: three and a half year old IDxTB mare, a blanket appy, lame for most of the time I had her, had to have her pts just about a year to the day that I got her due to chronic damage to both rear suspensory ligaments.

My horse was beyond an operation or any help, so I have all crossed that your Mum's lad responds well to treatment.

Sorry, nothing useful to add, but wanted to send hugs.
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Thanks MrsM. I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. :( I really hope that Noah will be OK, for his own sake more than anything. I think it's somehow fate that he has come to us as Mum doesn't care about jumping, competing, hunting or anything other than plodding about the village with a bit of trot and canter on the grass. I feel so sad for him as he's finding it all quite stressful and he's really bored in the field (he has started eating the fencing and has had a skin reaction to that... cue him rubbing a lot of his hair out!).

Since he's come he has destroyed countless rugs, fence rails, a garden bench (!) and generally wreaked havoc but we love him. At least now he's with us he won't be made to work whilst in pain and can at least enjoy being part of our little herd. Hopefully we can get him fixed and he can enjoy the countryside a bit too with some leisurely hacks in good time.

Skippys Mum, thanks for the heads up.

Here is Noah with our others on the day he arrived (forgive Cosmo's miniskirt, hehe).

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HollyWoozle said:
Apologies for the length but I am sad and in need of advice regarding bone spavins/surgery. :(

As I have posted before, my mother got a new horse in November. He is the first horse she has had for herself in over 40 years and she was amazingly excited about the purchase. He is a 16hh 6yr old Appy called Noah and was supposedly a private sale...

First off, we did not have him vetted. Please... no lectures about this as it's fair to say that we have learnt our lesson! He was not expensive and both my mother and I rode him, took videos and so forth. He was fit, muscled and forward-going and the seller seemed extremely genuine. It turns out the seller's sister is a horse dealer who has been in trouble with trading standards, especially for her dodgy foreign imports (Noah came from Denmark). With no vetting, we don't have a leg to stand on regarding the following but it is hugely disappointing nonetheless.

He arrived in November missing a shoe and was lame on this foot. We had shoe put back on and he looked OK in the field so we hacked him out gently but he was off in trot. Anyway, to cut a long story short (well, less long!), after several vet consultations he has just returned from a bone scan which shows a bone spavin in his back right. This in turn is probably causing lameness in his front right (I presume him accommodating for the discomfort somehow?) which is the lameness the vets kept noticing. The vets said they could tell from the scan that in Noah's case, this bone spavin has been present since he was a very young foal. I feel sad for him that he has been worked with this discomfort and that previous owners didn't do anything about it.

We have the option of injections, supplement and painkillers, surgery or to PTS. However, we would not PTS a horse whilst he or she had a good quality of life with us and so we think we will take the surgery option (especially as he is young). Does anyone have experience of bone spavin operations? If you have some experience of this and could tell me more about it, it'd be really useful... particularly success stories as my mother is really heartbroken about it all. She only wants to do light hacking so I am hopeful that Noah can come good for this and if not, we will give him a nice retirement.

Thank you.
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Please don't panic. Three of the six horses on my yard have bone spavin. Strangely, theone who seems (from bone scan and xrays) to be affected the least is the only one of the three who currently is unridable, but as she has also been diagnosed with gastric ulcers, we suspect that this has more to do with her reluctance to work than the spavin. She will be treated for the ulcers and then have her hocks injected. My own horse has very severe spavin in both hinds but remains sound and willing to work. The third horse is very slightly off behind but still happy to work and his owner has decided on no treatment. We are hoping that his hocks fuse soon and he will then be more comfortable. I will not treat my boy unless he shows an unwillingness to work or becomes lame. It sounds as though Noah's spavin started due to early training. Often European bred and trained horses are worked too hard too young and this is the reason why spavin is so common in these horses. I woulld probably try injection if he were mine before surgery.
 
Just to say it need not be the end of the world. My mare is 16 now and has had bone spavin in both hocks since she was 5! I did get her vetted and it wasn't picked up but have followed the vets advice to the letter and she's rarely been lame. She's been on various joint supplements, Cortaflex triple strength when it was active and now a green lipped mussel supplement. She's had steroids injected into each hock twice which worked well. She's competed at affiliated medium dressage, been to the Scottish champs and won countless competitions. So don't give up. She's now out on loan to a friend as a school mistress and hack and although stiff sometimes, is fine with good management. PM me if you'd like anymore advice. Fingers crossed for you and the horse, (who is gorgeous by the way)!!!
 
Aww bless you for giving him the very best of chances, i think he looks gorgeous although i am a biased massive fan for the appys :) I am wishing you guys the very best of luck x
 
Thanks for the advice.

The vets apparently told my Mum (though she was quite upset at the time!) that in Noah it appeared to be a congenital defect rather than as a result of working. I don't know anything about bone spavin so am not sure about any of it but I trust the vet. He said that if Noah was his horse, he would take the surgery option (everyone said that this vet is extremely honest and advises the best option, regardless of price etc.).

I have been reading about juvenile spavin so I suppose it's this!
 
HollyWoozle said:
Thanks for the advice.

The vets apparently told my Mum (though she was quite upset at the time!) that in Noah it appeared to be a congenital defect rather than as a result of working. I don't know anything about bone spavin so am not sure about any of it but I trust the vet. He said that if Noah was his horse, he would take the surgery option (everyone said that this vet is extremely honest and advises the best option, regardless of price etc.).

I have been reading about juvenile spavin so I suppose it's this!
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If it's congenital, then yes, I would agree. The operation is the best route to go. He is nice and young and so I bet he will make a speedy recovery. Let us know what happens, and good luck.
 
Spavin is not the end of the world! I have several older horses who have had one or both hocks injected and all are in full work and enjoying themselves, many of them sound enough to do a full days hunting or some bsja. I would have a look at the op if vet thinks its a defect from birth but for what you want, its not the end of the world even if you have to bute up for light hacking.
 
Take a look at my post "Before and after 4 months of competition livery" She has bone spavin - it really should not be an issue.
Years ago it was hardly diagnosed, just seen as "normal" with time as a healer. My girl has had steroid injections into both hocks and is doing very well.
Why an op? Did vet feel the bones won't fuse with time? I'm confused that your vet says she's had it since a foal, as that doesn't sound like spavin?
 
Please don't panic, it is not the end of the world!
My boy was diagnosed with bi-lateral spavins about 2 yrs ago.
Fortunately one had all but fused on it's own, the other took about 6 mts (after diagnosis) to fully fuse.
My boy must have had them for quite some time, but only went lame towards the end.
I just worked him in straight lines and avoided any routes that included going downhill on hacks.
I also used bute as and when necessary.
Fudge is now fully sound in both legs and could near enough pass a flexion test on them.
I don't do much competing etc and like your mum mainly hack and he is more than capable of this.
I now also have Fudge barefoot, which has helped his way of going immensely!
Good luck with your boy xo
 
Achinghips said:
Take a look at my post "Before and after 4 months of competition livery" She has bone spavin - it really should not be an issue.
Years ago it was hardly diagnosed, just seen as "normal" with time as a healer. My girl has had steroid injections into both hocks and is doing very well.
Why an op? Did vet feel the bones won't fuse with time? I'm confused that your vet says she's had it since a foal, as that doesn't sound like spavin?
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Hi, I will take a look at your topic (I did see the pics already, lovely horse). I haven't spoken to the vet myself but from having googled it it appears that there is something called juvenile spavin: "Juvenile Spavin occurs in horses that are less than 3 years of age. This can occur due to poor formation of the cuboidal bones of the joints, such as in premature or dysmature foals."

Noah has done basically no work since he arrived in November (2 short hacks before we realised) and is now evidently lame in the field when trotting. He first looked lame on the front but now it is quite apparent in the back end. They did suggest that we could try steroid injections but they said that the surgery had around a 70 - 80% chance of being entirely successful, especially as Noah is only 6.
 
Sorry to hear about Noah- we are on our 2nd Appy and I have a very soft spot for them.
I have no experience of spavin but can recommend magnet boots while you are waiting/deciding. We have had very good using them as pain relief.
 
ditto what some of the others have said my last horse had bone spavin in both her back legs and although its difficult at first whilst the treatment is ongoing she returned to full work and never suffered any problems with them again i just kept her on a good quality joint suppliment
 
My friend had a horse who had key hole surgery for bone spavin. Afterwards the horse was out of action for a good 6 months while the joints fused. But they were allowed to walk her in hand which apparently helps the bones fuse. She was able to be ridden after about 8 months and my friend took another year getting her fit slowly. She was only 8 when she had the op, she will be 12 this year and does geneal riding club activities now. If it were me at the time I don't think I would have chosen the op but it has worked for this horse... So there is hope, many a second opinion from another vet just to help you decide.
 
I'm so sorry to hear that! :( He looks like a lovely horse from the photos I have seen of him. I presume he was sound when you tried him (possibly on bute/had a steroid injection?)

I have no experience with bone spavin but I think I would go for the operation as he is still young and if your mum only wants to do light hacking, there's a chance he could come sound and have a happy life with your mum.

Edited to add: I wouldn't consider injections as IMO this just masks the problem and although the horse will appear sound, there is a chance the condition could gradually get worse without anyone noticing until suddenly it becomes too bad to treat. Also, IME the steroid injections often wear off after a while and have to be redone.
 
hi please dont worry my horse has it both hind legs, she is 15.she is on buteless and wears magnetic boots.she is slightly cow hock which can be a contribution factor,once they have fused then she will be ok.im thinking of putting her on cortaflex as well as she has been a little more stiff than usual.my vet said that she could see nothing wrong with doing local shows etc.
 
Ahh so it was spavins after all :( Tbh though that is better news than a few of the outcomes, as you can treat the symptoms, and often it doesn't deteriorate further! I was scared that your boy had navicular :(

My TBx had bone spavin in one hock, the injection made no difference (tbh I think he was worse after, but that's probably a coincidence) so I kept him on Devil's Claw, various oils and also Glucosamine. I didn't want to put him on bute as he was only very young. They helped him a lot. My vet said to keep him slim so there is less stress on the joints, be careful about sharp turns and sharp transitions, and stop lunging and jumping him. Also he had remedial shoes which made a big difference. After he was diagnosed, to be honest he more or less kept the same workload. He was always a bit stiff for a few minutes when I got on, and on cold wet days he was lame, but usually walked it off. We didn't jump any more, but he was never one for jumping (perhaps because of his hocks) but still did local dressage, showing, fun rides and cubbing (he was a very sedate hunter and we skipped the fences) unfortunately I lost him to a field accident last year :(

My friend's Appy who I told you about, his spavins were more serious than my boy's and I think he has the beginnings of arthritis in his hooves and knees. Her vet said to keep him fit and keep his back end muscled, as the more muscle there is the more support the joints have. They haven't tried injections as he's fine for what he does (light hacking) and gets stressed by vets ect. He's on two butes a day.

Both of these guys had to live out 24/7, which my vet swears by, and says that stabling/standing still for hours on end can cause deterioration.
 
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So from personal experience and also the experiences of friends and horsey aquaintences, there should be no reason why Noah can't be a happy hacker. :) About 40% of the horses I know with spavins returned to full work (these were mostly the younger ones) including affiliated jumping, eventing ect, 20% kept very active lives, just with the really strenous stuff cut out, 30% became light hacks and 10% retired. So a positive outcome is pretty likely, and I have all my fingers crossed for you!

Also friend's appy is barefoot, and seems happier without shoes!
 
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Thanks everyone! I passed all your comments onto my Mum who feels a lot better now. She's really been just disheartened by it all but the real victim of this is poor Noah of course. We agreed that we will do our very best to get him sound and if he has to retire, we will try to keep him until the end of his days, whenever that may be.

We will talk with the vet some more about the options but I'm pretty sure we will choose the surgery. Although we've owned horses and ponies for as long as I've been alive (but always for me and my brothers, never anything for Mum!) we've never had to deal with anything so serious and certainly not surgery. Box rest will be difficult as he lives out 24/7 and our stables look out across the field (we usually just leave them open as field shelter) but somehow we will make it work. We have two ponies who can alternate going in the stable next to him.

We're prepared for the long haul but I remain hopeful that it will be worth it in the end.

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He looks fabulous in the photos and I really am impressed with you and your mum and giving him the best chance - he was very lucky you bought him. Fingers crossed it will all work out and you will be hacking and showing in no time!
On the issue of box rest - I fence off "stable sized" sections of the field with electric tape or fence yard areas (between buildings or with sheep hurdles etc). My vet is totally happy with this. The only aim of box rest is to try and limit excessive movement so being on a restricted area but but outside helps the horse mentally so aids recovery in any case. Best of luck x
 
JoBird said:
He looks fabulous in the photos and I really am impressed with you and your mum and giving him the best chance - he was very lucky you bought him. Fingers crossed it will all work out and you will be hacking and showing in no time!
On the issue of box rest - I fence off "stable sized" sections of the field with electric tape or fence yard areas (between buildings or with sheep hurdles etc). My vet is totally happy with this. The only aim of box rest is to try and limit excessive movement so being on a restricted area but but outside helps the horse mentally so aids recovery in any case. Best of luck x
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Thanks JoBird. :) That's interesting to hear about the field, will bear that option in mind.
 
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