New breed of horse owners?

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Cherryade

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Trawling through the many various horse pages on facebook makes for a depressing read, hundreds of mainly badly bred youngsters for sale for less than the price of a Tv, many ridden as young as 2 years old :(. People posting pictures of their horses in ill fitting tack, asking questions which only a vet could answer and an overall ignorance concerning horse welfare.

My question is has this always been the case and we just see it more often now due to social media, or is this a new breed of horse owner that seems education is lacking but purely have horses because they can?
 
Horses are very cheap now. Anyone can own a horse, even if they have no clue as to what they are doing. I do however think some people nowadays have become rather obsessed with perfectly fitting tack; in my day we had saddles that 'fitted' almost every horse! We used crappy Jute rugs and horrific 'not very waterproof' canvas NZs; no one said anything because that's what everyone used and that was all we knew. I do think there is more ignorance these days though. Even on this forum, yeah I know no question is supposed to be seen as stupid, but ... sometimes I honestly do think 'Really?'

I have no problem with appropriately grown 2 years olds being lightly ridden, so that's certainly not a bug bear of mine. Badly bred yak type horses, yes there seems to be a huge amount of them now in the UK and I really don't think they were like that 40 years ago; back in those days they were generally natives cross TB, or Arabs. I'm just blown away by the amount of hairy gypsy cob type horses that are around in the UK now; I don't recall anyone having them years ago, they were not commonly seen except for pulling milk wagons or suchlike.
 
They are quite new over here as we don't have travellers, I imagine there prices will fall eventually as they are just another mixed breed horse. Do you have a purebred register over in the UK or is it just a marketing term they have decided to use here.
 
maccachic said:
They are quite new over here as we don't have travellers, I imagine there prices will fall eventually as they are just another mixed breed horse. Do you have a purebred register over in the UK or is it just a marketing term they have decided to use here.
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I don't know about in the UK but where I live they do say 'purebred' too so I'm assuming there must be some type of register for them. They are not common here though, there are some people who ask $30k for horses with 'pedigrees' but usually when you see a cobby type thing here it goes up for sale very cheaply (like under $1k) and seems to stay on the market for a long time; AQHAs are the most popular horses here and they are quiet, kind and simple to ride so I don't really think there is much of a market for cobby horses.
 
horses are too cheap, DIY livery is too cheap, cruddy ebay imported saddles are too cheap and those bl00dy spotty tacky rugs are too cheap!

If I had a pound for everyone who said -' he is a rescue, he was going for meat I HAD to buy him' I would have a lot of money, if I had a pound for everytime someone said 'wanted, rugs for rescue pony - must be free' I would be even richer

If I had a pound for every video I saw of a pony with long hooves and ill fitting tack, a bling browband, sparkly over reach boots and a five point posh breastplate hooned over the same jump a hundred times....

By all means buy the latest fad but do spend some money on the basics! and while you're at it get yourself a lesson or two

GRRR - I'm going to bed!
 
Spring Feather said:
Horses are very cheap now. Anyone can own a horse, even if they have no clue as to what they are doing. I do however think some people nowadays have become rather obsessed with perfectly fitting tack; in my day we had saddles that 'fitted' almost every horse! We used crappy Jute rugs and horrific 'not very waterproof' canvas NZs; no one said anything because that's what everyone used and that was all we knew. I do think there is more ignorance these days though. Even on this forum, yeah I know no question is supposed to be seen as stupid, but ... sometimes I honestly do think 'Really?'

I have no problem with appropriately grown 2 years olds being lightly ridden, so that's certainly not a bug bear of mine. Badly bred yak type horses, yes there seems to be a huge amount of them now in the UK and I really don't think they were like that 40 years ago; back in those days they were generally natives cross TB, or Arabs. I'm just blown away by the amount of hairy gypsy cob type horses that are around in the UK now; I don't recall anyone having them years ago, they were not commonly seen except for pulling milk wagons or suchlike.
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Riding is a term i would use loosely regarding the two year olds being ridden over here. Not for a minute am I suggesting everyone should have the latest tack, rugs etc but knowing what we do now shouldn't a saddle that fits be a basic, essential thing .

WelshD said:
horses are too cheap, DIY livery is too cheap, cruddy ebay imported saddles are too cheap and those bl00dy spotty tacky rugs are too cheap!

If I had a pound for everyone who said -' he is a rescue, he was going for meat I HAD to buy him' I would have a lot of money, if I had a pound for everytime someone said 'wanted, rugs for rescue pony - must be free' I would be even richer

If I had a pound for every video I saw of a pony with long hooves and ill fitting tack, a bling browband, sparkly over reach boots and a five point posh breastplate hooned over the same jump a hundred times....

By all means buy the latest fad but do spend some money on the basics! and while you're at it get yourself a lesson or two

GRRR - I'm going to bed!
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Is this the essence of it all, money? Cheap to buy, cheap to keep no real value?
 
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WelshD said:
horses are too cheap, DIY livery is too cheap, cruddy ebay imported saddles are too cheap and those bl00dy spotty tacky rugs are too cheap!

If I had a pound for everyone who said -' he is a rescue, he was going for meat I HAD to buy him' I would have a lot of money, if I had a pound for everytime someone said 'wanted, rugs for rescue pony - must be free' I would be even richer


If I had a pound for every video I saw of a pony with long hooves and ill fitting tack, a bling browband, sparkly over reach boots and a five point posh breastplate hooned over the same jump a hundred times....

By all means buy the latest fad but do spend some money on the basics! and while you're at it get yourself a lesson or two

GRRR - I'm going to bed!
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Well said and very true!
 
Totally agree with the sentiments on this thread. I get really annoyed when people ask questions about problems that really they should be asking a vet, then when a vet is suggested, say they can't afford it as they are not insured. That and getting a youngster, having problems but refusing to have lessons as they can't afford it or they want to wait until the horse behaves better, sigh. Oh and whilst I am on my high horse, wanting 24/7 turnout when the grazing can't support it then whingeing when they have to feed hay out or wondering why the horses are all fighting in the field (because they are hungry!). Rant over and breathe...
 
Cherryade said:
Not for a minute am I suggesting everyone should have the latest tack, rugs etc but knowing what we do now shouldn't a saddle that fits be a basic, essential thing .
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Yes I think so. Even if it's not perfect, at least do better than one of those hideous Indian leather creations that belong nowhere but the bin.



Is this the essence of it all, money? Cheap to buy, cheap to keep no real value?
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Yes I'd say that is exactly the problem.
 
maccachic said:
They are trying to sell Gypsey horses in NZ for premium prices! http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Sea...&isFromSuggest=true&originalSearch=gypsey+cob
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Spring Feather said:
Ah but they're 'purebred' :smile3: I wonder how much the bog standard gypsy cobs go for down there? Probably the same as over here, can barely give them away!
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Those 'pure bred gypsy' horses wouldn't be worth much here in the UK or Ireland - that's the problem with pedigrees - as long as it has a few fashionable names people will think it's good quality/valuable. There are still big money gypsy horses over here but they are sold on their own merit rather than what the passport says. There's some famous stallion and mares names bandied about but unless the horse it's self is spectacular then it's worth very little. It's quite sad because I remember a few years ago when the GC's became popular in USA, Canada, NZ & Oz, there was some stunning horses sold overseas, but it looks like they have been crossed with everything going and produced lot's of low value offspring. Just like we have here.

Spring Feather said:
those hideous Indian leather creations that belong nowhere but the bin.
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My pet hate in the horse world, it's even found it's way into previously good quality tack shops.
 
Is this the essence of it all, money? Cheap to buy, cheap to keep no real value?


Largely yes. Years ago, any coloureds were looked down upon. There are some Gypsy Cobs that are of a nice compact stamp and really do look stunning, but the sad fact is that the vast majority are what an old nagsman I worked for termed 'rubbing rags'. Too many people jumped on the bandwagon and bred owt to nowt, now available for next to nothing and also, I think horse owners have changed. Horse owning seems to have become a bit of a fad - hence all money spent on blingy tack and little left for the basics. The horse seems to be of secondary importance. Sad, but in this economic climate, things such as DIY livery are cheaper as compare to what they were say 20 years ago, because lots of people are struggling to keep their businesses afloat.
 
Too many people "buying a horse" when they know diddly-squat about actually looking after a horse - and can't ride. :(

I'm up in Glasgow and there are a couple of dealers up here whose pics of nags make me wince. There was one posted this weekend that actually looked lame when it was standing still! Loads of comments along the lines of "awww, he's gorjus hun!". Heart-breaking. I'm told RSPCA/etc. don't give a rat's *rse!

And of course, some stupid muppet will come along with a handful of cash and buy said nag which was previously on the way to the meat man.

PS You can bet your life these "newbies" are the ones with the loudest opinions!
 
I agree with the general gist of this thread, but we should remember there are a lot of new horse keepers that have saved long and hard and done their utmost to ensure they do provide a good home for the equine they have or are buying.

There is no doubt that we all see things that make us wince, I certainly do on my drive to work, but not all new owners fall into the 'all the gear and no idea' category. There are the odd questions on the forum that are worrying but at least the poster has asked for help.

I fall into the 'stupid muppet' division, having bought two meat bound horses.
 
AA It's not all about 'what type' of horse you buy it's the trend of people that buy cheap horses and won't/can't afford or know how to look after them. Then get offensive when it is said they need to spend money on vet/lessons/farrier
Or plead for someone else to cough up as they can't afford it
Even worse is when it's obviously a teenager whose parents have 'rescued' them a horse and now left them too it with no money or education. These are the ones that worry me the most


I'm sure none if us are slating what now seem to be the few newbies like I was That started off the wrong way. Bought a che apish 3 yr old for my inexperienced teenage daughter. BUT I went out of my way to learn everything I could. Found the money for 6wks schooling and regular lessons as well as took advice given even if it meant I had to work overtime to pay for whatever the horse needed

I never pleaded for hand outs or moaned when people said things I didn't want to hear

I understood I had got in over my head and had to do the right thing and work hard and learn what I needed to know to take care of this beautiful sensitive animal

Blimey that has bought back some long lost memories :)
 
AdorableAlice said:
I fall into the 'stupid muppet' division, having bought two meat bound horses.
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I think only someone very naïve would place this completely on the monetary value of a horse - whilst I have never had meat horses I have picked up failed racers and problem horses for free/peanuts and they have gone on to bring me great fun.

The price of what you pay for a horse is really irrelevant in a lot of cases where those buying actually have a sound understanding of what a horse needs in general, and what your horses specifically need.

Something picked up cheaply by very novice or misinformed buyers will invariably end up being a problem because they aren't able to gauge what they need in terms of care - even very simple things such as teeth checks and back checks can be ignored by owners who just do not know that often this is what is needed. It does make a market though - my friend spends her life buying problem horses very cheaply and getting the most fantastic results from them - the difference between her and their previous owner in 99% of cases is knowledge.
 
I do think we just see it all now because of social media .
I remember when I worked with horses in the late 80's/90's seeing all the same sorts of things going on although there wasn't the abundance of stuff to buy for and treat your horse with.
There really is no excuse not to know the basics...it's all out there for you to find out if you want however if you rely on social media for this you're going to run into problems because your getting opinions rather than fact for the most part.
 
I think the general thing is that people are buying a horse, mainly to say that they have one and then skipping the basics of their care.

I'm guessing a horse may be cheap to keep if you forget about the basics, buy cheap tack that doesn't fit etc. however if they are looked after properly they're not exactly cheep when think about livery, feed, dentistry, vetinary care, physio, shoeing/trimming, saddle fitters not to mention the additionals of replacing tack and rugs.

Maybe the reasons some find them so cheap to look after is that they're missing some of the basics along the way. Feet that have never seen a farrier and haven't been trimmed for a horrendous amount of time, they've never seen a vet for vaccinations or otherwise, they probably don't know what an edt is so their teeth have never been looked at, and they think it's perfectly fine for them to stand in a bare padock all year round, and so long as the tack suits the rider who gives a damn about the poor horse. I've seen a few of these and it really cheeses me off.

There was one girl on a yard who would feed her ex racer that much that she was that fat it was beyond belief, sickeningly so even in summer, yet her feet where horrendously overgrown, but it was ok because she had the latest cheap tat rug and a sparkly brow band, it's saddle did to fit in the slightest, but it didn't matter to much she couldn't last 10 seconds in it anyway, probably because of all of the above issues. It amazed me that yo didn't do something about this poor horse.
 
personally think 'pure bred' term is a joke. Really? How many generations is all the breeding known for? I can trace my horses back 200 years, which is what it should be for a pure bred, known, traceable breeding. Gypsy cobs are only just recognised as a type. Generally it means a substantially built animal, not overly tall with plenty of hair & preferably coloured. Can get some well put together horses, many over here are bred on the cheap from rubbish to make some money. Stupid money for a heinz 57 cob.

Example from renown site:

http://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horseforsale-62640.html
 
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Horses are cheap & plentiful but it is ignorance that I believe is the downfall. Some have a few riding lessons & think they're riders & buy a horse. Parents buy children ponies because their friend has one like it's the new IPhone. They don't spend time learning about horse management. I rode for 16 years & worked at various yards before I got my own horse and am still learning!
 
It is all about you can't comprehend what you don't know :(

People see horses are as cheap to buy as an Xbox (or less).
Livery as cheap as £25 per week
As far as they know all they need then is a bit of food
They have absolutely no idea that that is only the beginning

Even if they find out different they then don't have the money for what they see as extras
The way they see it is horses in the wild never have these extras

As I said often horse is bought for teenager who is then advised horse needs these things. But when she tells parents they tell her well if it's going to cost that much you can't keep it. Teenager loves horse dearly so doesn't dare tell parents it needs more

Sad situation

Incidentally does anyone else worry a little that in 50-100 years time there will be no decent horses in the UK. They will nearly all be gypsy cob :(
 
I think also, social media has made everything FAR too accessible to people who buy things on a whim. When I was a young, pony-less child, I would get the Yeller and Freeads classified papers, spend hours circling adverts and begging my mum "this one sounds PERFECT, it's only £X and ONLY 150 miles away....pleeeeeease". My mum would roll her eyes and try to ignore me! But the "horsey stuff for sale" pages on Facebook, Internet sites and the sheer accessibility of things for sale makes the temptation harder to resist. It's too easy to click "buy it now", PayPal means you don't even have to look at your bank balance -gone are the days of thoughtfully ordering from a paper catalogue and waiting for ages for stuff to arrive!
 
As someone who is new to the horsey world really, and joined it mainly because of DD1 a thread like this makes me feel a bit :\

I don't know alot about horses i will admit. I am trying to learn.

I am paying for lessons as and when i can fit them in around my husbands shift work, DD1 goes weekly for hers.

No we don't own a horse or pony yet even though both DD1 and DD2 are desperate for one of their own. But that is mainly down to the fact that i don't feel ready to own a horse yet as i need to learn far, far more before taking on the commitment of an animal for a very long time.

But please don't judge all of us new people the same as those on social media. Some of us are learning first before taking the plunge.
 
As said already horses are a lot cheaper now, and people think its easy to look after one and really they do not have a clue. We had one turn up who we were told was 14'3 by the owner when we saw it anyone really could see it was only 13'2, it had a club foot and was slightly lame, they were told by previous owner that just his way of going when again you could see he was clearly lame. They came from working livery to DIY and had no idea of what was involved. The girl who was early 20's really could not be bothered so the mother who had even less idea tried to do her best and it was painful to watch. We tried to help and advise and the animal then had many health issues again turned out was much older than they were told, and after being put through major surgery at the age of 23 he died. Very very sad. Trouble is as well anyone can get one, but when I went to insure my horse because I only have one leg I had to get a letter from doctor to say I was able to look after her and would not cause her any harm, yet someone who has never even own a Hampster can get a horse make me very cross, and its the poor horse's that suffer in the end.
 
I think having everything on the internet has made this type of owner so much more visible. Years ago, if someone kept a badly cared-for pony on a scruffy bit of land, you might think "that looks a bit rough" as you went past in your car, but you might not know the full story, and might charitably assume it was prone to laminitis or being fed extra to compensate. Nowadays you can see the full extent of some people's horse 'management' in all it's gory detail as they splash it across the internet for all to see.

I do wonder whether the internet makes it easier for novices to pass the horse bug on to other novices, with no one having any real idea of the cost in money and time needed to look after a horse properly, as it's so easy to put up your 'cuddly' photos, and airbrush out the time you fell off because you weren't balanced. It seems to make it easier for people in the 'advanced' class at riding school to set themselves up as 'horse experts' and dispense advice with very little knowledge to back it up. I think there do seem to be more people breeding foals and not really knowing anywhere near enough about it. This is how I suspect my share horse came to be born, as she has a personality to die for but her conformation is horrendous, and I can't see how someone who knew what they were doing would have come to breed something that moved like that! Thank goodness her novice owner has experienced people to help her, otherwise that horse would have been in foal as well, because she thought how lovely it would be to have a cute little baby foal. It would have been a disaster! (I told her if she ever said that again she could come up to the farm and put a rope halter on one of our little bulls, and if she could cope with it then she could consider a foal. It was never mentioned again!)

The internet also possibly makes it harder for advice to be given and taken. It can get quite confrontational, and unsolicited advice in typed form on a screen is easily ignored, or taken as insulting, or evidence of jealousy, whereas being told in person by a very knowledgeable, self-assured, and slightly scary Pony Club instructor that you're doing it wrong makes quite an impression! You can also delete critical comments and just keep the ones that make you feel good about yourself. You can't delete the Pony Club DC when she's standing in front of you telling you just what she thinks of people who commit x cardinal sin of horse-care.

On the other hand, novices do make mistakes. I would go so far as to say even experienced people make mistakes. For example, I'm not a total novice (I hope!) but the other day I managed to do up the noseband on the outside of one of the cheekpieces, because I was chatting at the time and didn't notice until I got on. I've got to the end of rolling up tail bandages, only to find I started at the wrong end, and had to start again. I will freely admit that sometimes I'm not too bright! The danger of everything going online is that little mistakes can get blown out of all proportion and then people get defensive.

Short version:
Internet means everything is open to see, but it's also easier to pass nonsense advice and undeserved praise between novices online than to get your bum down to the local stables and do some hard work and get told off by a really knowledgeable person for your idiot mistakes, which is the only way to learn how to do it properly.
 
There have always been numpties owning horses and there always will be. When I was a child, seeing horses with saddle sores was common. Dentists, saddle fitters and physio's were seldom seen. A horse aged 21 was an exception rather than pretty usual and didn't tend to be in full work.

There is far more information available for learning about horse care nowadays for people who want to learn. Products and professionals are far more accessible.

As for traditional coloured cobs, I feel that as a breed (and they are now a recognised breed), they tend to be better than a lot of the weirdly shaped 'sports' horses and WB's knocking around. The problem is with owners who do not know how to care for them. No horse is a novice's horse. All need a knowledgeable owner, or someone with the intelligence to seek advice from a mentor.
 
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