new BSJA rule kind of shocked me!

Santa_Claus

Santa_Claus

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www.katiemortimore.com
Rule 77.3.9 Hors Concours amended to read: -
A rider having faults during his/her round may jump “Hors Concours” immediately or before the end of the class. Subsequent competitive entries being allowed; NOTE Additional entry fee charge applies

So although this still stops people entering classes lower than they are normally allowed HC and jumping subsequently you can now effectively jump one class as many times as you like until you are happy and then still continue to jump competitively for the rest of the day.

It somewhat surprised me. Yes will be useful to babies especially with water jumps but do think it could be abused somewhat!?

also other new rules include

Rule 42: Horses/ ponies identified with “loss of use” requesting registration to have accompanying Veterinary Surgeon verification.

Rule 202 – Disqualification at Judges Discretion To include: -
The whip should be used NO more than three times during a show jumping round, the arm should not come above the shoulder and should hit the rump of the pony or horse and not the flanks. The definition of usage of whip is when the rider takes his/her hands of the reins to use the whip.

Katie
 
The whip rule is a bit stupid - no more than three times? Riiiiiight

Already knew the HC one and really think its good. Rock jumped really badly in his round at Blewbury last week as he was spooked by the arena etc. Being a baby i didnt want to end on that note so went HC afterwards.
 
My trainer said that BE is going the same way with whip rule - I was going to write about it yesterday actually. I think its ridiculous rule - if you have a nappy horse a couple of reminders will sort it out same at fences like water or ditches. Also it only takes some over zealous watcher to get involved. I think its very clear if there is misuse and if someone is riding correctly and the horse is misbehaving.
 
Agree Lec. Its bloody stupid! like you say with a nappy horse or one who needs constant reminding.
You know when a horse is being mistreated IMO, i really dont think a whip rule is necessary
 
yeah i can really see the benefit with a youngster as said but rather surprised they have put it in and will be interesting to see who utilises the rule.

With whip rule that will be interesting. It is saying if your hands dont leave your reins it is not considered 'use of your whip'. It used to be 3 times in sucession its now 3 times in total at the judges discretion. wander what the judges will do!!
 
Im being a bit thick - whats the first rule mean in plain terms lol ???
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Re the whip rule - where does the flank end and the rump start? If you go bam bam bam is that once or three times?

Agree with the loss of use thing

I think the HC thing would get absused by certain people but most normal people only jump their horses twice at the most per show anyway so not going to make much of a difference.
 
Well, the HC rule is somewhat irrelevant anyway...IF show centres stick to the letter of the law
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I believe entries are supposed to close 30mins after the start of a class anyway, so unless you are jumping in the first 10 of a class, you couldn't (theoretically) enter the class again as 30 minutes would have passed
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The whip thing...well...it isn't a problem for me as i don't carry a whip with Bo anyway...and Trike never needs more than a tap on the shoulder....BUT...anyone who tells their horse off in the SJ'ing ring usually does so with 3 sharp smacks 'bhind the leg'. The 'flank' is normally where the whip would be used...the 'rump' is pretty well inaccessible to a rider with the whip
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I will watch this ruling being implemented (or not) with interest
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I think the whip rule has been a long time coming.
People go on and on about whip use in racing, without realising it is(was) the only whip regulated equestrian sport.
Also think 3 is quite generous, considering you can only use it a few more times over 3 miles.
 
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I think the whip rule has been a long time coming.
People go on and on about whip use in racing, without realising it is(was) the only whip regulated equestrian sport.
Also think 3 is quite generous, considering you can only use it a few more times over 3 miles.

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I think horse racing has needed a rule for longer though....there is a difference between 'showing the whip' and actually using it. A lot of 'Joe Public' wouldn't know the difference and could get confused
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I dont really understand your point.
Are you on about air shots? In racing or SJ?
They dont count towards the total in racing, wouldnt expect them to SJ either?

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Sorry...pub talking
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I mean in racing, often as not the jockey 'shows the horse the whip' (or takes 'air shots' in your terminology
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). Joe Public might construe that as 'using' the whip where it clearly isn't
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I don't know anyone in the SJ'ing world who does anything other than actually 'use' the whip....and on the flank, not the rump
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Do you not think that the whip rule has been given a number so that judges who chose to enforce the rule, can do so in a concrete manner.

To stop argumentative numpties from rowing with them over their useage.

The fact that it is at the judges discretion, shows that it will prob not be enforced if the rider is being effective in the use of the whip, rather than riding like a tw*t. (Sorry lost the urge to be articulate and resorted to obscenities.....bad FMC.)
 
BSJA are obviously following the HRA protocol for whip use.
In racing it is considered cruel to hit a horse on belly or flank (5 day + ban), only allowed to slap down shoulder with hands on the reins. They seem to have copied the whip arm above shoulder rule to the letter. In racing you can hit across the front of the chest in extentuating circumstances (ive never seen it, so dont know how 'extentuating' the circumstance would have to be).
There isnt really a stated amount of times that are illegal, just that it is done 'giving the horse time to respond'. Generally every 4 strides in a tight finish - do it anywhere else and ud get done big time!
They didnt make these rules up on a whim, they based them on research.
Surely it can only be good for the BSJA?
Ive never undertood the tapping on belly approach anyway - surely people only do it because they are too scared to give it a damn good crack round the a55?
 
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Surely it can only be good for the BSJA?

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I hope so !

It's a tricky area and i guess the judges have alway had the power to haul people up for misuse....it remains to be seen how well / often the new rule is enforced
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I also fail to see how it is possible to smack a horse on the rump (or anywhere behind the leg) without raising the whip above shoulder level
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Being very thick here but I was always taught to use the stick behind the leg? Would anyone here hit their horse on the rump? Wouldn't it buck? Or go drastically off course and miss the fence anyway? What will be the effect of this ruling - will people stop using the whip at all in case it is in the incorrect place? (Jockeys are in a different position to SJers and, as far as I can see, use the whip in a driving "front to back" way; so maybe in their case they do strike the rump/hip....?)
 
Surely this rule will have no impact on BSJA?

If anyone is having to beat their horse to get them round a SJ course, they shouldn't be there in the first place!

The whip is generally used SJ down the shoulder or behind the rump when refused.

If you are beating a horse for refusing I question whether you are ready for BSJA?

I am lucky that my horse has only ever run out once, and that was due to a stupid angle in a jump off so totally my fault. I rarely use the whip but do sometimes down the shoulder for tricky fences.
 
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Surely this rule will have no impact on BSJA?

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We'll have to see !?

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If anyone is having to beat their horse to get them round a SJ course, they shouldn't be there in the first place!

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Then there are plenty who shouldn't be there
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p is generally used SJ down the shoulder or behind the rump when refused.

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How do you hit a horse 'behind the rump
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are beating a horse for refusing I question whether you are ready for BSJA?

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See point 2
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I am lucky that my horse has only ever run out once, and that was due to a stupid angle in a jump off so totally my fault. I rarely use the whip but do sometimes down the shoulder for tricky fences.

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I was always taught NEVER to use the stick on the shoulder
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glad you posted those new rules, we are considering affliate my mare who we claimed LOU for in 2002 but has since been sound as a pound and competes everytime I am home for uni.
But we have put SJ on hold at the moment as i'm having slight confidence crisis!!
 
when did the whip rule come in? i saw a lady (or could of been, she was of un confirmed sex) beat her horse atleast 7-9 times on weds when horse refused and skipped out. as for the HC good and bad! if flint goes bad i take him in once more to say hey your not getting away with that, but i wouldnt go in all day long! there are others to think of. but hey im no master, just an opinion. is it bad to be drunk at 5 o'clock?
 
about time for the whip rule .......i have been to many bsja shows and have been appalled to see some of these retards who call them selfs horse lovers whipping there horse, in side and out side the ring ...makes me so mad i feel like pulling them off there horses and laying into them with a whip..if your having to beat a horse to jump ......perhaps its time to think again .......
 
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about time for the whip rule .......i have been to many bsja shows and have been appalled to see some of these retards who call them selfs horse lovers whipping there horse, in side and out side the ring ...makes me so mad i feel like pulling them off there horses and laying into them with a whip..if your having to beat a horse to jump ......perhaps its time to think again .......

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i very nearly stepped in! i think little miss competetive had lost it! i cant abide to see it! it takes alot to upset me but that was up there with the best of them!
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On the subject of whips. I was always taught that a whip was a non-natural aid and not to be used as a punishment. So why is it that people stand their horses in front of a fence they've refused hitting them. Surely this can only be for punishment? One hit for punsihment is a hit too many, IMHO.
Using whips as an aid is fine, if used correctly to reinforce the leg, but I don't think anyone shuld get away with using it at all for punishment. My horses are trained that a little tickle behind the leg means to give a bit more, and it works for me.
 
you can tell when some horses have been beat after refusing as they are the ones who tend who try and flee straight away with head in the air. IMHO. when mine refuses he stands there and 100 times out of 100 he clears it, after being too over precautios the 1st time round. i do carry a stick but even if i tap him with it on bum or shoulder he gets aggitated and causes a scene so do not use it unless i have too. but its not a punishment tool i wish to use
 
Hmmmm is that HC rule new then? I used it a couple of years ago, at Blewbury, jumped 4th from last, not brilliant, spoke to sec immediately and went in again at the end HC (and had a worse round LMAO!!!)
 
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Hmmmm is that HC rule new then? I used it a couple of years ago, at Blewbury, jumped 4th from last, not brilliant, spoke to sec immediately and went in again at the end HC (and had a worse round LMAO!!!)

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are you sure you wasn't riding mine! that is SO me its unbelievable!!
 
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