New DEFRA regs or yard gone crazy?!?!?!...

[hollyzippo]

We have been told (by yard owner) that we cant feed/hay in the fields (have own fields for each livery of about 1-2 acres each) as DEFRA are fining for poaching. Apparently this counts as "inappropriate winter feeding"!!!!
Am suspicious is a ploy so we cant turn out in the mud, am sure even DEFRA arent that stupid and petty are they!?!?
If they are they clearly dont realise how much more poaching will be incurred by my 2 once there grass has run out and they start charging around!!
Just wondered if anyone else been told this.... will look on DEFRA site in mean time!

 

[suestowford]

I reckon this is to do with the single farm payment scheme. Defra can withdraw any money paid (that is, assuming they have paid it in the first place) if the landowner doesn't look after their land according to the rules Defra have set. A farmer I know had to get all his fields rolled last winter because the cattle had messed them up with their hooves. Defra want the countryside to look pretty at all times, never mind what the weather has been doing.

So, as regards feeding hay, assuming it is always fed in the same place, then yes, it cuold count against your YO. If you don't put the hay in the same place every day, you won't poach the ground in one place so much so you may get away with it.

This could be one reason why so many YOs don't allow winter turnout, as they don't want to lose their money from Defra for having poached fields.

 

[twisteddiamond]

if the yard is registered with defra for the money for grazing scheme ( it has a proper name but i cant remember it) the land has to be kept to a certain standard which includes not letting it getting poached/overgrazed etc if it does become below the defra standard they dont get the subsidy for the land

 

[AmyMay]

Ooo that's a new one on me!!!

We will be continuing however - as I think that there is a new regulation around about ensuring that horses have adequate fodder etc........

 

[magic104]

Our YO ought to take heed then as he has ruined our paddocks putting in new posts for the fencing!!! He has done more damage in 2 days then 4 horses do in a year!

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

The single payment may be one of the reasons for YO restricting winter turnout. I feel that the main reason is that the fields can get so poached & churned up that if the turnout is not limited then the grazing in the summer will be seriously affected. I think we've all seen poached paddocks growing nothing but weeds & docks the next summer.

Unless you are on land that has loads of spare paddocks so you can rotate & rest them fairly often the majority of grazing will be restricted during the winter when it is extremely wet.

 

[hollyzippo]

Thanks everyone. Just seems silly as we have a field each for whole year so if its knackered its own fault as far as managing goes. Mine was v wet last winter and so long in summer I had to strip graze (hence still have grass now... for a month or so!). And if move hay piles no poaching as only 2 horses max per field.
Perhaps Mr. Blair wants to sit on Jools once hes been in for a few days and experience "inappropriate winter flying!!"

 

[MillionDollar]

Im afraid this is true. If you are on the single payment scheme you can not have any poached areas, weeds, etc, etc. They want the countryside to look good but not to have any farming farms. Our farm is getting a lot of money to do nothing! We're actually getting paid for 250 beef cattle we no longer have as they are basing farms what they had 4/5 years ago. So don't think its your YO it is the regs.

 

[Gingernags]

[ QUOTE ]
Defra want the countryside to look pretty at all times, never mind what the weather has been doing.


[/ QUOTE ]

You need to remember that DEFRA stands for Department for Elimination of Farming and Rural Activities...

They seem to think that animals do not appreciate being out in the winter. It is obviously harmful for them to get muddy and cold and should therefore be snuggly in a barn and not making a nasty muddly mess outside because wet and muddy fields are just wrong!

How we can have a department for farming and rural stuff that have a rule that you can't get things muddy or we'll not pay you - in my opinion - are two bit jobsworths who know b&gger all about animals and farming and welfare of animals and need a damn good kick up the backside! Not poaching fields indeed - IT RAINS, ANIMALS LIVE OUT - THEREFORE IT GETS MUDDY- LIVE WITH IT!

 

[hollyzippo]

Not sure how studs or livestock farms will cope. And some dont have option to bring in so presumably DEFRA give the option of leave to starve in the mud or fine the owner so they cant afford to feed anyway?!?!

 

[Rambo]

....Just off to do the 'edges' and make sure the stripes are going the right way....

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure how studs or livestock farms will cope. And some dont have option to bring in so presumably DEFRA give the option of leave to starve in the mud or fine the owner so they cant afford to feed anyway?!?!

[/ QUOTE ] This only affects people who registered for the Single Farm Payment thingummy - it is not a fine so much, as a reduction in the grant payment they receive.

 

[Gingernags]

Please remember if you live in a farmhouse, that you should block pave the drive, tidy any gravel and rake into neat swirls, do not leave any machinery or unsightly stuff out in the fields, wash down all concrete areas every day and keep everywhere immaculate.

It is also essential that if your house is lovely weathered stone like sandstone, that has darkened with age, you MUST get it cleaned to bright yellowness and remove any ivy or climbing plants.

Please note you will also be fined unless you have an immaculate BMW for him and 4WD for her and kids, parked on the immaculate block paved drive, that is washed and polished regularly and never shows a speck of muck.

See - this is a townie guide to how to live in the country (sorry about the generalisation).

Oh and under no circumstances must you have livestock of any description. Should you have neighbours that do - please have the complaints number of the local council handy to complain about cows mooing and being smelly, the local cock crowing to early for your town hours, and slow agricultural traffic and heaven forbid - horses - slowing down your speeding on small rural roads...

 

[hollyzippo]

Dont joke, village I grew up in had sudden influx of townies as was so quaint etc etc. They wrote into the newsletter complaining about being woken at 8.30 on a sunday by horses riding past their windows!! (That was me and my mum

) and also about cow poo on the roads!
Local policeman wrote back telling them all to b***er off back to the city! he he.
Still facing hungry or grumpy stable bound horses tho....... booooooooooooo

 

[mrdarcy]

I can sympathise with YO's. Saying that you have your own field just for your two horses and that if you ruin it then its only you that suffers is fine to an extent but what if you leave the yard? YO is then left with a ruined field to offer the next livery that comes along.

Fact is that land is in short supply in this country and we also suffer extremely wet weather - not a good combination. YO's have to think ahead to next summer and all the summers after that. It costs a lot of money to reseed or remove weeds - plus taking that land out of action for a while. The profit margins are already small enough for YO's.

We've just gone through one of the wettest Novembers for years - please spare a thought for our YO's and our grazing land.

 

[Baggybreeches]

NOt just the DEFRA thing, feeding hay in the field can affect your planning status, in that you have to apply for a change of use. It was in HH a few months ago.

 

[BenjaminBunny]

Ok I used to work for DEFRA so I'll clarify

There is a scheme called Countryside Stewardship

This scheme rewards farmers with a subsidy for being environmentally sensitive - for example this can be not using pesticides on a particular field, or maintaining hedgerows, or maintaining a field boundary which will encourage wildlife such as birds/field mice - this subsidy reflects what the farmer would earn from the land being productive

Farmers are not forced into this agreement, it is an agreement between the farmer and DEFRA, it is not compulsory - it is at the farmers discretion what he/she signs up for, part of the process is visits from DEFRA to identify what the farmer can do and then chats to deem whether it's feasible for the farmer

I think your YO is making excuses so you won't complain to her/him - the agreement is usually for arable farms where they can control (to some extent) where the crops are

if the farm is diverse and has both crops and animals - this could account for an agreement - but in my time at DEFRA (i no longer work there) there was nothing about keeping fields from being mud baths...

This countryside stewardship scheme was introduced as part of the CAP reform - which instead of rewarding farmers who produce the most (which has resulted in the food mountains we hear of) it's about rewarding farmers for taking care of their environment which in turn I believe will keep farming sustainable

Please do not abuse me from posting what I know - this is an open forum where opinions and views can be posted

 

[OWLIE185]

Overgrazed areas will result in a penalty if Single Area Payment is being claimed for.
Your yard owner should cease claiming for Single Area Payment and then he can do what he wants with his fields. He should also put in sufficient drainage to allow any rain water to rapidly drain away thus preventing the problem of poaching of the ground..

 

[Gingernags]

There definately is something in there to do with this single payment thingy that specifically refers to poached areas around gateways etc. TBH if the farmers are offered money (and I'm not saying I blame them) they will take it, but in reality it is virtually impossible to stop grazing land getting muddy in winter.

Ours has had extra drains put in, and even with only 3 horses out daily, the gate way gets muddy when its rained.

Luckily our farmer hasn't claimed the payment so we can leave ours out with no worries of reprisals should it get messy in gateways! or elsewhere like Ivy the Hippos rolling spots...

 

[hollyzippo]

Thanks for the info, just wanted to clarify if there were actual regulations and whether we/YO would get in trouble for breaking them. Stable it is then!!

 

[Chex]

Farms receiving the single farm payment have to keep to the Good Agriculture and Environmental conditions, not sure exactly what these are though. There's no problem where I keep Chex, half the fields are poached!