New horse a bully

[Pink Gorilla]

Feeling a bit low. My new horse is being a bit of a knob to be honest. He acts bargy and dominant with me in the field and I’m having to do lots of groundwork and standing up to him. But he is also being a bully in the field. So far he’s kicked my dog (fair enough he may not be used to dogs and my teenage daughter let the dog get too close), he’s chased, bitten and double barrelled my pony when I put them together (they nuzzle over the fence and seemed really attached attached as they were always stood together) so I quickly regretted that decision, then today he kicked a 2 day old calf that got under his fence and launched the poor thing flying in the air. I’ve only had him 2 weeks. Is this thing likely to settle? When he gets broken in in July, could this help settle this behaviour? I’m just really struggling to like him at the moment. He’s just so rude and nasty to everyone in my little farm family and I was hoping he could go out eventually with the pony and two cows. But it’s not looking likely. My last horse was dominant, but that was because he was a stallion until he was 7. So I was really hoping this one would be a little more placid. He was brought up from a foal in a herd, so I had high hopes. I paid a lot of money for him and by the time I’ve spent over another £1000 getting him broken in, I’m wondering if it will all be worth it. I don’t want a horse that’s going to be like this forever. I want someone who will fit in well and be good natured. I know they have to establish the pecking order, but my pony was happy to submit to him and he just wouldn’t leave him alone. He was really nasty and I just don’t understand why he would feel the need to kick the calf who had been next to him for 2 days.

 

[Bellaboo18]

You were given some good advice on your last thread and you said 'Look I’m not asking how I should keep him!'
You're not really keeping a young horse in a suitable environment.

 

[Pink Gorilla]

How am I not? Please explain? He has 2.5 acres with good grass, ad-lib hay at night, consistent company (albeit over a fence at the moment) and gets handled daily with plenty of groundwork and problem solving for his mind. What else do you suggest I do?

 

[Pink Gorilla]

You were given some good advice on your last thread and you said 'Look I’m not asking how I should keep him!'
You're not really keeping a young horse in a suitable environment.

My last post is about hay intake. THIS one is asking for advice of living situation.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Well if you can't see the two are linked ?‍
I wouldn't keep a horse on a 1/4 acre individual paddock. He needs company, space and food. You admitted to him being 'hangry'

 

[Pink Gorilla]

I don’t understand why you’re being rude when I’m just asking for a little advice?

 

[Bellaboo18]

I don’t understand why you’re being rude when I’m just asking for a little advice?

Because you wouldn't take the advice on the last thread.
We can start again.
He needs company, space and food.

 

[Pink Gorilla]

He has all that. 2.5acres, mountains of grass in the day (too much grass) and ad lib hay at night. Two feeds a day. The same company all day everyday. Please suggest what I can do different

 

[Bellaboo18]

He has all that. 2.5acres, mountains of grass in the day (too much grass) and ad lib hay at night. Two feeds a day. The same company all day everyday. Please suggest what I can do different

I *think* he was in a herd before you got him?Going from that to individual turnout can be very stressful for a horse even if he has a horse over the fence.
I also think you muzzle him?

 

[Pink Gorilla]

He was in herd until a few months ago when he went to the dealer I bought him off, then he was in individual turnout. He was only muzzled for 3 days whilst the cows munched the grass down for me. He’s not muzzled any more, as I gave up on that.

 

[Bellaboo18]

He was in herd until a few months ago when he went to the dealer I bought him off, then he was in individual turnout. He was only muzzled for 3 days whilst the cows munched the grass down for me. He’s not muzzled any more, as I gave up on that.

I think you'd see a big difference in him if he had company (in with him).

 

[Pink Gorilla]

I tried him again 2 days ago and my pony came out with bite marks all over his bum. I’m not doing that to him all the time. I’ve tried 3 times now and each time he has just gotten more and more dominant. My pony runs to me in a panic. I too thought it could be food related, hence why I feed him as much as he wants at the moment so he knows that food won’t run out. Also I introduced them for the second time in the much larger space, since he bullied my pony in the smaller space, but he just ran him ragged double barrelling him whenever he got him against a fence line. Is it not just possible that this horse have a bad attitude? Is it always the owner’s fault? He gets groomed every day in an attempt to bond, groundwork 5 times a week in an attempt to improve ground manners, move his feet and engage his mind. He has the pony next to him at all times and as much food as he wants. He’s now getting fat and his issues have only improved on the ground with me ever so slightly. But not with any other human or animal that comes near him.

 

[luckyoldme]

I had a much older horse..but he was described in much the same way as you are describing yours...although it tirned out that mine was just poorly socialised.
Turning him out in a group was most definately the answer.
My horse was well into his teens when i got him and turning him out with a group was the making of him.(in his case the group included a no messing percheron mare) He had a tendancy to torment submisdive companions but completely turned around in the herd situation...and had a blissfull later life with them.

 

[Pink Gorilla]

I had a much older horse..but he was described in much the same way as you are describing yours...although it tirned out that mine was just poorly socialised.
Turning him out in a group was most definately the answer.
My horse was well into his teens when i got him and turning him out with a group was the making of him.(in his case the group included a no messing percheron mare) He had a tendancy to torment submisdive companions but completely turned around in the herd situation...and had a blissfull later life with them.

Thank you. I’ve heard a dominant mare will often put them in their place. I just don’t have the facilities to add another at the moment. Hopefully I’m the future though that could be an option

 

[P.forpony]

My older 14hh pony mare read the riot act to a 17’2 warmblood who was quite frankly a 6yr old thug.
She’s usually the quietest sweetest natured thing but sized him up in 2 seconds flat as all mouth and no trousers, and was having none of it!
He ended up completely in love with her, I’m sure because she gave him very clear boundaries.
A mare is definitely the way forward.

 

[millikins]

I'd cut the feeds if he has plenty of grass and hay at night.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

I know this is feeling like a nightmare with no end and you must be feeling wretched but it really is early days for him getting used to his new home. I think having him broken and in work will occupy and tire
him mentally and physically. He needs to see “life” and get used to cows and dogs and bikes and cars etc etc its the tough part of having a youngster...correctly introducing them to “stuff”. My expectation would be that correct handling (protect your pony) and him relaxing into his new home will see him come right...but it will take time.

 

[ycbm]

If you have only had him 2 weeks I would hope that he is just feeling very threatened by the move and will settle.

Some horses seem to be like it permanently, though. And some are like it when in pain, so it could be worth finding out if the stress of the move has given him ulcers, it sometimes does.

.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

He won't know yet that there is always going to be plenty of food available. I bought a 4 yr old who I knew had been extremely thin about a year before I got her. The breeder had bought her back and fed her back up but it took about 2 years for her to completely relax about food with us even though she always had access to ad-lib forage. You restricted his intake, so he certainly won't trust you to provide him with all he needs just yet. As for the pony, he is obviously not strong enough a character to deal with the newbie. Perhaps this is not the horse for you, you might be better finding a horse that has already been broken and has settled down with adult companions and doesn't always want to play.

 

[Pink Gorilla]

Thank you. I am hoping it is maybe him just feeling insecure with the move and thinking the best deffense is a good offense, rather than it being in his nature to just kick and dominate anyone who enters his space. I’m praying work and a job to do will settle him. He does seem panicked about losing food. When I watch him graze he will scoff for hours at 100mph, without taking to breaks to rest or doze as though he’s trying to grab it whilst he can. His bucket feed is just a small pure fibre balancer and a little probiotic. So only enough to get his vits and minerals into him, not enough to fill him up.

 

[Leo Walker]

Is it always the owner’s fault?

Yes, pretty much.

You have an unhappy horse so its up to you to fix that for him. A young horse in on its own is going to be a pillock most of the time. I had my young highland in with my adult mare and was stunned when he was happy. He is incredibly laid back though. I would expect most youngsters to be upset and agitated if they are on their own, company over the fence or not.

 

[Pink Gorilla]

Yes, pretty much.

You have an unhappy horse so its up to you to fix that for him. A young horse in on its own is going to be a pillock most of the time. I had my young highland in with my adult mare and was stunned when he was happy. He is incredibly laid back though. I would expect most youngsters to be upset and agitated if they are on their own, company over the fence or not.

Yes but how can I resolve it if he attacks my pony every time I try them together? My pony is also a young pony who was from a herd as an entire stallion and is nothing like the horse. Because they are the same age I was hoping them could play together and enjoy each other, but the horse just seems to want to torment and attack him. I get that different breeds will have different personalities. But I own a livery yard (which is full so I can’t move him there) and the warmbloods there and the thoroughbred ex racehorse youngster aren’t like this either.

 

[meleeka]

Mine was the same when I got him. He wasn’t a youngster either. He’s a cob so food is what he lives for and he did go hungry before I got him and it took years before he stopped being so obsessed with food. . It transpired that he was just really insecure about everything. He’s a lovely boy now but I did have to be firm with the boundaries. He’d still kick anything he was scared of though, so I just wouldn’t risk cows or dogs. Yours may we’ll get used to them eventually, but he’s had an awful lot going on lately and I think you need to be a bit more understanding of that. Just reach him quietly what the rules are with regard to handling, and let him chill out and work the rest out in his own time.

 

[ycbm]

. Is it not just possible that this horse have a bad attitude? Is it always the owner’s fault?.

Yes that is possible, and it happens quite often, and is one of the reasons that so many livery yards are on individual turnout.

I have known many horses over the years who would not settle even in a herd situation. My very experienced friend currently owns a horse bought as a four year old, and they tried many times to socialise him but he just damages the other horses so he is kept alone, where he is clearly settled and happy. Luckily they have the space.

Years back, I knew a horse that ran a pony ragged for an entire day before the livery yard admitted defeat and had him on his own.

I've owned a mare who grazed happily enough in a herd of horses, but put sheep with her and she pinned them in corners and kicked the living daylights out of them.

It may be a previous owners fault, or it may not. People have different characters and different attitudes to personal space, and so do horses.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

People create problems in horses, you need to look at what you can change to make him feel safe and secure. I always switch off from people who use phrases like”he’s being a knob”. No, he’s being a HORSE, your job as a responsible owner is to listen to him and understand what he’s trying to tell you.

If it isn’t working out how you currently have Him then move him short term and find a herd, give him some socialisation. He doesn’t need to “bond” with you, he needs what a horse needs, food, company, interaction with other horses and to feel secure.

It takes a long time for horses to feel secure and you’ve had him a very short time.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Youngsters really need to be out with others their own age and a couple of older ones to put them in their place, so I’m not surprised he’s acting out in your current setup.

Find him some company, stop keeping him on individual turnout and start instilling some manners and you’ll be amazed at the difference it’ll make. In the meantime, cut him some slack, it’s only been 2 weeks and your set up is far from ideal for a youngster. Also please set him up for success, letting your dog get too close to him was always going to end in tears.

 

[Nari]

Herds of mixed ages are the way to go with youngsters, the older ones generally keep them in their place and teach them herd manners. Two youngsters together is always likely to produce the situation you describe as one of them tries to lord it over the other. Just like children they need adults around to keep discipline and teach them to be nice people.

 

[millikins]

Our Dales mare had to be separated and graze alone for about a month after she arrived last year for our safety. She was only 4, so not what we wanted but she was dangerously possesive of our old mare if daughter or I went into the field, kicking out and tried to run down daughter. It was obviously because she was upset and insecure, but sort who becomes bolshy and very rude in those situations. She came round OP after a couple of months, she's rather sweet really though not one you'd take liberties with

 

[shanti]

Two young horses together with no 'adult' to manage them, I'm not surprised you are having issues. This is pretty standard horse behavior given the circumstances. You need to get hold of a cranky. no nonsense, older mare to sort him out.

 

[hellfire]

When I bought my last youngster he’d been kept separate with a old mare as company over the fence. When I put him in with my little herd he was a nightmare and bully. I made sure he had his shoes off before I put him out and rugged everyone up and let them get on with it in the end after constant panicking. I used the 6acre paddock with plenty of grass. After a few months it all settled down and now they live happily. The biggest issue I had was my Sparky was stallion like as cut very late and my new one Dakota at just rising 5 had not long been cut. There were times I thought it wouldn’t work and even posted my concerns on here but luckily in the end it did. It’s actually my older Shetland who keeps them in check as he’s a grumpy sod at times. Dakota now has taken top position but the serious bullying has stopped. He’s matured and learnt herd behaviour. The only time it rears it’s head is when they are on restricted grazing and I’m doing hay. That’s because in their eyes there’s not enough food even though there is. A young horse needs to be in a herd and given plenty of room so they can get away from each other plus grass to keep them occupied. Id turn them out together and keep a close eye on things and go from there. He’s got to settle into a new place. Plus what are you feeding him? You just want a low sugar fibre based feed if he does need extra. If you have plenty of grass maybe forget the feed right now unless your getting him to a routine of coming in or over to you.