New horse = confused rider

[Michelle1109]

Hi all, so I bought horse whom I have ridden in lessons for the last 2 years ( he was owned by the manager of the school and she let me ride him in lessons ..he is still in his same box and stables. he is 19, 17.2 ex GP showjumper / schoolmaster with great breeding and successful career. Still very fit!! I will admit he is my first horse (im 37) and now I think over horsed myself lol. Before he was a total gent (schoolmaster) good manners etc never a foot wrong, even though he is very very strong, now I have him, he walks backwards everytime I go to get on him, he is heavy in my hand fights against my legs when I ask for bend
I'm still learning to be a better rider (I can jump and do low level dressage moves flying changes etc.)
What's happened!!!!! What has change since I signed the ownership agreement!! He has turned in to a bit of a naughty boy!
Do I just need to be a little stronger with him and ask him to listen more (I will not be shouting and screaming at him) ride and repeat till we get in a good routine? Could it be me? And maybe I'm nervous Without realising it?
Any advise would be great , please keep comments positive
Thanks All and look forward to hearing from you

 

[smja]

Are you the only person who rides him now?

I expect less work + inexperienced rider has allowed things to slip. It's easy to let things slide little by little without realising it. You do need to be firm - i.e. ask him to stand whilst you get on, don't let him walk backwards even just a small amount.

I'd ask the yard manager/former owner what she thinks, and maybe she can help you get back on track.

 

[View]

I would also check what he is being fed. If he is still being fed the same and doing less work, there is a miss match which is contributing to what you are experiencing.

Agree that I would ask the former owner for advice, but I would also cut the feed back, if possible back to forage (grass and hay only).

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Don't panic! What you're experiencing is totally normal with a new horse, especially a first horse. You don't mention if you're boy is still being used in lessons or whether it is only you riding him now? I suspect if there's been a drop in workload, say from going from being used in lots of lessons to being ridden a couple of times a week it's only natural that he might have a bit more "character" to him shall we say! It's also more than likely that he's picking up on your nerves and reacting to them. Are you still having lessons on him? What has your instructor said about the change in him?

(Apologies if all the above points have now been covered off...I started writing this hours ago and then had a bunch of people arrive in my office wanting to chat)

 

[Michelle1109]

Hi guys
All great points so thanks, to answer some questions
I'm an average rider with not a bad seat jumping flying changes dressage few little tricks lol!
It's only me riding him now ( he was only ever ridden by 3 or 4 other before)
I ride 6 time a week at least 45/1hrs per day
Same feed but with extra vitamins and supplements for older horses
Still going to have lessons on him (I only bought him last week so my first real week of juts me and him)
Good thing is, he is at same yard with grooms and managers who know him well
I think it's more me and my nerves! Realisation of actually own wrong this beautiful monster of a horse!
Im hoping he is testing his boundaries with me as I think he has figure out its me he sees everyday and rides him etc! He is a flipping smart horse this one

Please keep the advise coming as it's all very welcome xx

 

[Michelle1109]

Thanks guys, rode again in a lesson and he was like rocket lol!! Over powering and pulling forward, now he is 17.2 and still got some power so I expect a little
45 min lesson + 20 min lunge and all he wanted to do was canter which is great but not for me lol!!
I think he has figured out he won't have big blokes riding him anymore and now he has just one human to deal with I think he is excited
I really don't think it's by any means behavioural more like .... Wowzers this is nice!

I will crack and work on my seat
Any other r tips all greatly accepted

 

[View]

Do check what his previous workload was: if he is doing less with you, then there should be a decrease in the hard feed and more forage. Good luck, and keep on smiling.

 

[GirlFriday]

Does he get out to graze/just be a horse at all? I think you're in Dubai and so I'm not sure what your facilities will be like in terms of down-time for the horse... If he is now stuck in a box 23hrs/day he is going to have a lot of excess energy. You might want to consider getting your trainer or someone else more experienced to hack him out and/or free school for you if you only ride in the school and he doesn't get to chill (and use mental and physical energy) with other horses in a field at all...

 

[Michelle1109]

Does he get out to graze/just be a horse at all? I think you're in Dubai and so I'm not sure what your facilities will be like in terms of down-time for the horse... If he is now stuck in a box 23hrs/day he is going to have a lot of excess energy. You might want to consider getting your trainer or someone else more experienced to hack him out and/or free school for you if you only ride in the school and he doesn't get to chill (and use mental and physical energy) with other horses in a field at all...

He does get out once in morning and afternoon (in summer it's just morning as its to hot) but he has a paddock next to the other horses and has lots of chill out time his box it great looks out on to the arena and has a big window,
Now we have started to get somewhere he is listening lots more and I feel better and as a result he is better, I truly believe it was my nerves getting to better of me and he felt it and also felt nervous
I had a lesson and went back to basics - sit up sit tall and ride!! It worked! Lol
Last night we had the jumping clinic and my RI popped me over some tiny crosses which i freaked over! :/ ... Then he gave me a good talking to told me I had ridden this horse for 2 years and to get my big girl pants on hahahah!!
He then put the grid to 60s told me they are lower ( I sad are they a bit big) he said no, it's Coz they are straights not cross..... So off I went 5 in a row one stride, popped over no problems felt great horse was amazing
That's when he told me oh by the way....... They are 60s...... With a ilbig grin on his face!!

All in all my nerves got the better of me, I need to remember to RIDE the horse with control and compultion. I did and boy do I feel good today . So did my boy as he got treats and lots of carrots
Thanks to all the comments you guys really did help

 

[View]

Nice to hear you had a good session with him

Keep on riding, and keep on smiling.

 

[Michelle1109]

Oooooookay so I'm back to square 1
Today he was a sod, ( and a few other times) asked him to go left, ( or right) head in the air big bluge eyes, sideways hop few skips!!!! He had NEVER done that before, I rode him for 1 year as school horse ( only 4 of us rode him then I bought him) Eventually got the nerve to give him a good sharp kick and he walked on but he is a great big 17.1 brut, so to be fair id say I was shaken a little and a LOT miserable. his mouth is fine saddles legs everything is fine except his attitude.
Could he really just be testing me? And letting me know, I'm not sitting well, to much rein, unbalanced etc he is super trained and I'm worried he is getting p@@@ed off and saying hey up there, sort it out!!!
I'm not a great rider but I'm not a bag of spuds either. I have to keep his rein short and fairly strong or he doesn't listen and gets a bit fast.
In a jumping lesson I will happily pop over 80s and have no issues at all!!! In flat work he is a ******.
Boredom? Testing? Telling me to ride better or he won't stand for it?
Bright eyed and bushy tailed and big personality coming back now he is not in the school anymore. It's like his brain has come back to life!!!
I respect him for the calibre of bread and horse he is ( ex GP show jumper with famous daddy
But sometimes he doesn't respect me as a rider
Suggestions on calming his attitude before it gets to be a real problem? I rode him great before I bought him, and now I've gone backwards
He is already in a Pelham bit with curb chain, all ways has been as he is so strong, can change it just yet as he needs it!! Trust me

 

[furryfriendsforlife]

Bless you Michelle, I've just read your post for the first time and I can sympathise. Im 35 and bought my first, an ex riding school mare has been with me for 2 months and she has definitely tried to 'test' me during that time, from spinning when I try to mount, to literally trying to fly off out of the outdoor paddock with me during a lesson when she's had enough, she can be a strong brute!

Keep at it and I've found that doing two lessons a week on her and hacking out with my instructors has given me lots more confidence, so that if they see something small, they instantly tell me how to fix it, or to praise her when I should be doing and havent realised.
At this stage its such a test of our nerves and confidence at times i've really stressed myself, but my instructors have both said it can take a few months at least, to a year for your horse to really settle in with you and become a proper partnership.

With the walking backwards whilst trying to mount, my instructor made me tell my mare that if she decided to move, it was because I wanted her to move, not her.... so I had to continue to make her move with a slight tap of the crop until i wanted her to stop. When she stopped, i praise her. Then try and mount again until she would do this calmly and I would start by taking her mane in my left hand, patting her. One foot in stirrup, patting her. Stand in stirrup, pat her, then mount and give her a big pat. If at any part during this process she spun, walked back, we start again from the beginning. This would sometimes take 10-15 whole minutes and was worse outside than the indoor school. But after two weeks of doing this (i ride 4-5 times a week), we no longer have this issue and she behaves as I mount.

My old instructor always told me that I was too soft... but im like you, im not going to scream the school down. But im trying to be more confident and strong and sure in my decision about what I want and pre-empting what she might try, so that I win.

You can do this! Keep at it x

 

[Michelle1109]

Furryfriendsforlife!
Nice to know u feel my pain!!
I Have 3 lessons a week and I ride 7 times (twice on Saturdays am/pm) as he needs this amount of work and so do I - one day off, when he is in the lesson he used to be good as gold but now he is becoming a bit of a pain and when I'm on my own he is even worse, (we don't hack out as its not his thing! Desert riding he doesn't like so he is hand walked around the yard and it's a BIG yard) he is not a mean horse but will throw In a few "moves" to scare me -
I'm determined to crack this and yes they tell me I am to soft ha. But then I got too strong and he sure told me about it lol!
Nerves the fine line between contact and pulling and bad transistions are getting the better of us
Tonight will be me sitting like Carl Hester and walk trot transistions heaps of them - hot off my leg but softer in my hand and hope my body complies with my mind .... Hahhahah!!!
Like people say, repetition and seat!
My nerves can stay at home today 🎉🎉

 

[furryfriendsforlife]

how did it go? Crossing my fingers it was a good session and he was a good boy

 

[Michelle1109]

It was awful
Nearly face planted me while trotting . He would just stop dead I spent most of the hour kissing his ears!!!!
Canter first time was joy then he would just belt off I had to do a full on emergency stop his nose my toes
I can't work out what his problem is - I think he is really pushing his limits in the hope he doesn't have to work He is a very very smart horse in a lesson he is fine .... When we ride on our own he is a ****
When he tanks is very scary as he is massive very long and very strong but before I could sit it now I can't :/ I need to be able to sit it and pull him back and NOT let him stop in canter so he thinks this is hard work .... I'll behave
I hope it's just him playing around and I'll get the better of him soon
Miserable is not even close.
Good thing is I do keep riding him. I haven't got to the point where I'm to nervous to ride, I just get disheartened when I do
I honestly think he is telling me ride correct or I won't play ball!!
Today I will trot and walk leg yields only build back up to canters
Let's see if back to basic helps at all
I have a little dressage comp on Saturday just between the riders of the school nothing special so let's see how that goes
I won't give up but I can it being a long road (even though he is school master he needs to learn nothing...... It's me who has to)
Wish me luck!!!

 

[Amye]

I feel for you Michelle...

What you're describing, I wouldn't call a schoolmaster. Yes, he may be able to do all the moves but that doesn't make him a schoolmaster. A schoolmaster should look after you and fill you with confidence.

I would also stop blaming yourself! I know alot of the time people say stop blaming the horse, look at yourself but really, he needs to learn to respect and listen to you. This isn't just down to your riding (and you sound like a fairly decent rider to me!).

Sorry if this has been covered previously, but I think you need to look at all aspects of the horse, not just the riding. Have you altered his feed since you've had him? If he's gone from being fed lots because he was doing much more work before he was with you, you probably need to look at cutting his feed down as it may be giving him too much energy. Have you also thought about getting a vet to give him a once over? Yes, his behaviour *might* be down to bad manners, but could he also be in pain from something (saddle, back, teeth?) which is causing him to tense and tank off?

What is he like with you on the ground? Is he bargy, rude etc? I would try and do some ground work with him to build your relationship and get him to listen to you. In hand stuff, long-reining, lunging. If you've no experience of this or are worried he may play up, get your instructor to help you.

You said earlier that he is OK in lessons and only does this on his own. Do you only have group lessons with him? Could you try and have a few one on one session with an instructor and see how he behaves? You instructor might also be able to see what he is reacting to (if anything).

Make sure you're firm with him with everything you do, even just leading him around. Let him know his boundaries and stick to them, don't let him get away with anything. To me, it sounds like this is a pain response (hence get him checked over if you haven't already) or he doesn't understand where his boundaries lie so is doing as he likes (and getting away with it).

I hope you get it sorted. Don't let him make you miserable, owning horses is supposed to be fun and don't put yourself in a dangerous situation with him. Get a professional in to help if you need to.

 

[Michelle1109]

Hi
Thanks for comments
He was a total schoolmaster before when he was a school horse - only 3 of had the pleasure of riding him and then I bought him. He would support you and give everything he had foR you NOW he is a sod but in the ground is safe as houses never have an issue with him he is so good on the ground tack up fine - washing fine - we hand walk lunge go for a roll around after his bath etc
I do think he has more excitement and engery now he is a one horse rider and I do need to contain that
Lesson (I have 4 per week) only 3 of us together or some times one on one he is always fine when the RI is around but with me only he thinks he can play up so I dont think it's a pain issue he also just had his checks before I bought hi. A month again
Lunging is fine he always has pranced around and still does so no change there either
Im at a loss I do think I need to ride him stronger and be more firm as when I am he is a div but I keep at him and he stops it
So I do think behaviour rather than pain
As when we jump noooo problems he loves it
Flat work he more unpredictable now
It's not like he is trying to be mean or nasty, it's like he is telling me ride me better as I'll cooperate
As in the lesson when I have more instruction he is compliant
On my own maybe I become softer with him
It's a tough one .... I think I'll get the vet out again just to be sure
Saddles tack etc all fine
Thanks again for comments all helps

 

[SEL]

My friend runs a trekking centre and on the odd occasion sells on one of her horses. They pretty much always have a personality change to one degree or another - usually the lack of exercise compared to what they were used to!

Firstly what are you feeding? Right now with grass coming through your horse probably needs absolutely nothing apart from a small haynet when standing in.
24:7 turnout? That wears off a lot of steam.
Take rugs off - nothing like shivering in this late cold patch to use up excess energy.
Can you pop him back on working livery to get some more work into him?
Perhaps ask your instructor for a review of what bit you've got him in

Sorry if you've tried all of these before, but I spent many years with an extremely hot warmblood on a share arrangement and I'm afraid it was work, work and more work that got him settled (which was the reason his owner wanted a sharer). He could hack for 3 hours on a Saturday including a lot of fast hill work and do the same again on a Sunday without a problem. In fact he was a lovely hack when he was in work 7 days a week - but lethal in winter when we struggled to get the hours in.

 

[Michelle1109]

I'm in dubai so he gets hay and turn out, no grass in the desert
I am thinking its work I need to Knacker him out lol!! He won't go in hacks as he hates the desert He gets 2 feeds a day and it's been changed to suit now.
My RI always shouts at me RIDE THAT HORSE!!
I can actually tell he is happier and is more bright eyed and ready to go, but then I get on and he doesn't want to work, or tanks off!!!
It's like a strange mix of "I don't want to do anything" to "ok let's run the grand national at top speed"
Nothing In between
Bit is fine had it allllll checked all the tack
I'm putting him on an excrsize package so he gets lunged in the morning and I ride at night
I'd don't really want any other riders on him if I'm honest (except my RI)
It's all very frustrating as first he won't go then he is like a rocket in canter
I know it's all learning and more learning but I'm starting to feel defeated by it all as my riding has gone backwards since I owned him
He is not mean when he tanks and always comes back very quickly
Could even be my Aids are to strong and I'm unbalancing myself
He was a GP showjumper so as soon as you come out the seat and lean forward he is trained to "go for it and get ready to jump!!)
But he is also a master at dressage and can GP level dressage, if you have your seat firmly stuck lol
As I say before he would be as good as gold and give it everything and be very forgiving
But now not so much

 

[Auslander]

I'm in dubai so he gets hay and turn out, no grass in the desert
I am thinking its work I need to Knacker him out lol!! He won't go in hacks as he hates the desert He gets 2 feeds a day and it's been changed to suit now.
My RI always shouts at me RIDE THAT HORSE!!
I can actually tell he is happier and is more bright eyed and ready to go, but then I get on and he doesn't want to work, or tanks off!!!
It's like a strange mix of "I don't want to do anything" to "ok let's run the grand national at top speed"
Nothing In between
Bit is fine had it allllll checked all the tack
I'm putting him on an excrsize package so he gets lunged in the morning and I ride at night
I'd don't really want any other riders on him if I'm honest (except my RI)
It's all very frustrating as first he won't go then he is like a rocket in canter
I know it's all learning and more learning but I'm starting to feel defeated by it all as my riding has gone backwards since I owned him
He is not mean when he tanks and always comes back very quickly
Could even be my Aids are to strong and I'm unbalancing myself
He was a GP showjumper so as soon as you come out the seat and lean forward he is trained to "go for it and get ready to jump!!)
But he is also a master at dressage and can GP level dressage, if you have your seat firmly stuck lol
As I say before he would be as good as gold and give it everything and be very forgiving
But now not so much

I can appreciate that, emotionally, you don't want other people riding him, but as this behaviour has started since you bought him, I suspect it has a lot to do with a fit, quality horse being ridden only by a less experienced rider. It's a hard pill to swallow, but I think you stand more chance of enjoying owning him, if he is ridden regularly by experienced riders who can maintain his level of schooling, and remind him of his manners.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Michelle I really feel for you, I can only imagine how deflating it must feel but I promise you it'll be worthwhile once you've cracked it. I agree with Auslander that it might be worth having either your RI or another experienced rider riding him once a week to remind him of his manners as he's definitely taking the pee at the moment and he's too big to be throwing his weight around really!

When you're schooling on your own what do you do when he tanks off? It sounds counterproductive but with the sharper types you tend to need to employ a cuddling leg to offer reassurance and make sure they stay in front of the leg and don't drop behind the contact. If his head is in the air I'd be employing lots of half halts and then counter bend for a stride or two to stop him bracing through his jaw and get him accepting the contact. For now I'd just focus on walk and trot, lots of circles (spiraling in and out is great for making sure he's accepting and working properly off your leg aids), lengthening/shortening strides etc. Polework would also encourage him to work properly through his back and get him thinking more. I'd perhaps pop four poles out on a 20m circle (one at each quarter) and focus on keeping the same amount of strides between poles to start with so you both have something to focus on. Has your RI offered any suggestions on how to improve your schooling outside of lessons?

 

[Michelle1109]

I can appreciate that, emotionally, you don't want other people riding him, but as this behaviour has started since you bought him, I suspect it has a lot to do with a fit, quality horse being ridden only by a less experienced rider. It's a hard pill to swallow, but I think you stand more chance of enjoying owning him, if he is ridden regularly by experienced riders who can maintain his level of schooling, and remind him of his manners.

I rode him For 1 year before i bought him!!!
So he is new as I own him new but not a new horse to ride for me
I rode him 3 times a week sometimes more then I bought him

 

[Amye]

I rode him For 1 year before i bought him!!!
So he is new as I own him new but not a new horse to ride for me
I rode him 3 times a week sometimes more then I bought him

But the horse also had other people riding him who might have kept his manners in check . Or maybe he just needs a lot of work.

I agree with Auslander, it might be worth getting someone else to ride him too just to see if the behaviour improves.

Another thought, when you rode him before you bought him, did you just ride him in lessons or by yourself? You said before he was fine in lessons still, so maybe he's always been like this when ridden by himself? I would speak to your riding instructor some more and explain exactly what he's doing when you're alone. They must be able to give you more advice than 'ride that horse'.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I rode him For 1 year before i bought him!!!
So he is new as I own him new but not a new horse to ride for me
I rode him 3 times a week sometimes more then I bought him

I think what Auslander is saying is that before you bought him others were also riding him, so his schooling sessions would have either been structured lessons where there was RI input (which you say he still behaves in) or presumably ridden by one on the RI's or the YO to keep him ticking over so there was less chance to misbehave as there was always someone to nip it in the bud before it got out of hand. Whilst he's not a new horse to you, you wouldn't have been the sole rider when you were riding him 3+ times a week which is why you never had an issue. Now you are the sole rider, he's testing boundaries and will most likely continue to take the biscuit until you find a way of nipping it in the bud. In your shoes, as I said before, I would be asking my RI to ride once a week for now to help keep him in check and help you through the transitional phase from RS horse to privately owned.

 

[Michelle1109]

All great points
When he was RS horse the only other 2 riders where not as strong as a rider as me they would plod around on him up to a little canter and a mini cross pole
I'd ride lots of dressage moves and jump up to 60/70 (now it's 80/90)
The yard manager was his old owner
And he is still in same yard
But yes the lessons are more structured which I copy (well try to) when I'm on my own also always ride next to the arena where other lessons are going on
I do think the more comments I read that is behavioural. He has figured out he doesn't have to Comply and be forgiving and help you out!! Cheeky s@d !!!!
Yesterday he pulled so hard I thought he broke my finger, but when I asked ..... He went right back on the bit for me :/
Feativefuzz ..... I think that's a great idea to get RI on him (even though the grumpy git doesn't like riding any more) he is an ex 4* eventer and he is SUCH a good rider ... He will hop on and sometimes "set him up" for me but would be awesome if I could get him on For 30 mins to see if he faces same issues also really helpful schooling ideas. I'm going to try all of what u said.
Im in dubai and as much as they want to help it's not like back home. My instructor is Irish (amazing rider) and the YO is kiwi also great rider so I am very lucky there but not much input outside of lesson in afraid. I love the pole /20mts circle one and will be trying this
It's funny as he is not sharp at all, he will go In To perfect canter from a nudge or a little kick (as long as u can sit straight enough for the aid /if u lean forward at all you need to really belt him for the aid) but now he really digs in and takes off normally I can have him in the most collected canter ever but now whoooshhhhhh of he goes! Lol

I'm sure if u ladies hopped on you would all fall in love with Him as he is a good kind horse who will and can do everything he can...... Except canter nicely for me hahahahaha!!
Stick him in front of a 90cm jump and he is off .... With perfection

It's a bizarre set of events I'm facing as I know he is not a bad horse he just isn't liking something ( and I hope it's not me lol)

Keep the schooling ideas coming I really like others ideas in schooling tips
I'm pretty rubbish at being creative

 

[rainyequine]

my instructor always told me stories about how kids who had lessons used to loan on weekend days, and because the school horses are so different in the school as to when they are being used privately they almost always fell off.

obviously not comparing you to a child, but the same thing goes i guess. i would be very strong and assertive with him until he learns that you're the boss and he has to listen to you, even when there isn't an instructor there.

have fun with your new pony, or should I say gigantic horse!!!!

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Just another thought (and apologies if you've covered this off already) but have you had his saddle checked recently? Even though you're still riding him a fair bit I suspect his workload will have changed somewhat since being a RS horse and as such he may have changed shape.

In terms of more schooling ideas, I'm a huge fan of this book for days when I'm lacking inspiration - https://www.amazon.co.uk/School-Exercises-Poles-Claire-Lilley/dp/0851319939

And also any of the 101 exercises books such as this one - https://www.amazon.co.uk/101-Schooling-Exercises-Horse-Rider/dp/0715319507

 

[KM-R]

Same feed but with extra vitamins and supplements for older horses

This just jumped out at me: not all horses respond to supplements in the same way! I tried my boy on a bog standard supplement, which is really commonly used here in the UK, and it turned him from a straightforward dude into...not that!

Beyond the other good advice on this thread, I'd consider restoring his feed to what he had before (with quantity adjusted for workload change) by removing the extra supplements and seeing if there's a difference.

 

[Michelle1109]

Hi KMR
Thanks for replying

Just an update .... He is fine now I think it was just the adjustment phase of me owning him (and suddenly loosing all confidence) and him not being a school horse. He thought it was celebration time he felt great and wanted to show me hahahha

I do believe it was more my nerves and him thinking he could be boss man, and then a few weeks ago it all just clicked and we are like a well oiled machine now (well not that good but close enough)

Good enough we won a little dressage comp AND are currently bashing over 90s ..... This is the girl who panicked at the sight of a 30cross pole

Whooohooo!!!
Thanks again for all who commented and gave me good advise and some confidence to get my big girl pants on!!

 

[KM-R]

Brilliant news! Glad it's all working out now