New Horse Lame 2 Weeks After 5 stage Vetting Where Does She Stand Legally?

coreteam1

coreteam1

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A friend of mine recently bought a horse which passed a five stage vetting. The horse has been with her for approx four weeks and two of that it has shown lameness.
The horse has barely been worked due to snow etc and has only been very lightly ridden.

It started to show back leg lameness/not trotting through etc and the vet was called. At the time the vet came to check it, the horse was also showing signs of lamness in front.
It's had it's back checked, saddle teeth and all other possiblities and is now about to have a full work up

Does anyone have a similar experience or have any legal knowledge of where my friend would stand in asking the previous owners to have this horse back?

She bought her from a dealer of dressage horses who is well known and has a good reputation
She paid £8,000

Any help appreciated (also in the tack room)
 
Replied in TR

First thing I'd do is get the bloods checked, then go from there...

If bloods have traces of bute etc then buyer has a very good case!
If blood come back clean then not much you can do really, 5 stage vetting is only valid on the day, whos to say the horse hasnt fallen or slipped in field, got cast in stable etc since being in new home
 
Check bloods and find out why it's lame. Would be very surprised if the owner had any come back as the vetting is a snap shot on the day. I assume in the two weeks in which it was ridden there weren't any signs of lameness?
 
My understanding is, that if you buy from a business such as a dealer, then you do have a certain amount of comeback - she may have to swap the horse for another, rather than a refund but better chances than if she'd bought privately.

Like others have said a 5 stage vetting is just a snapshot of time, the vetting only says that at x-O'Clock on that particular day the horse was sound of wind and leg. 2hrs later it could be a different story.
 
maxine1985 said:
Replied in TR

First thing I'd do is get the bloods checked, then go from there...

If bloods have traces of bute etc then buyer has a very good case!
If blood come back clean then not much you can do really, 5 stage vetting is only valid on the day, whos to say the horse hasnt fallen or slipped in field, got cast in stable etc since being in new home
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ditto this - get bloods checked, if they show something then yes she has a good case..if not, then you will need to discover the cause of the lameness and find out if it is a long term problem that the vet may have missed, or if it is simply a slip/fall since buying the horse. if the latter - im afraid there wont be much your friend can do in terms of legalities....
 
Was the horse sold as seen? Have you spoken to the dealer?
A vetting is only valid at the time the vet is there, as soon as the vet has driven off, it doesn't really mean anything substancial. Unless you can prove the horse was either buted up or something for the vetting to mask pain, then I don't really think you would have a case.
 
From a legal point of view if there is an pre-existing condition, do you have to prove that the dealer knew about it or are they still liable even if they weren't aware.
 
coreteam1 said:
She bought her from a dealer of dressage horses who is well known and has a good reputation
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Given the above I would talk to the seller and see what she says. As she has a good reputation I would be surprised if it had been 'drugged up' before purchase - thats not a way to get a good reputation!

As you bought from a dealer the sale of goods act applies- try contacting your local trading standards and they will be able to advise on what to do.

Was the horse stabled before the vetting?
 
RiderLizzie said:
Was the horse sold as seen? Have you spoken to the dealer?
A vetting is only valid at the time the vet is there, as soon as the vet has driven off, it doesn't really mean anything substancial. Unless you can prove the horse was either buted up or something for the vetting to mask pain, then I don't really think you would have a case.
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This is not so ,it would depend on what is found to be wrong with the horse if the condition is found to have been present two weeks ago the owner might well be able to make a case agaisnt the vet and vets carry insurance to cover them in this event.
I know of cases where vets insurers have paid the horses new owner when a mistake has been made.
This all rests on the results of the work up , a pre existing condition may give the owner the option of proceeding against the vet ( depending on what's found ) or the dealer as horse is not fit for purpose.
The owner needs legal advice from a specialist in this area her position is by no means hopeless , but it also may be something completly new and just rotten luck in which case she will have to make the best of it.
 
Goldenstar said:
This is not so ,it would depend on what is found to be wrong with the horse if the condition is found to have been present two weeks ago the owner might well be able to make a case agaisnt the vet and vets carry insurance to cover them in this event.
I know of cases where vets insurers have paid the horses new owner when a mistake has been made.
This all rests on the results of the work up , a pre existing condition may give the owner the option of proceeding against the vet ( depending on what's found ) or the dealer as horse is not fit for purpose.
The owner needs legal advice from a specialist in this area her position is by no means hopeless , but it also may be something completly new and just rotten luck in which case she will have to make the best of it.
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This is correct ^^^ vets are covered by Professional indemnity insurance and if it proves to be a pre existing condition then new purchaser can come back on the vet or the dealer.
 
sorry for late reply :)

Friend had the horse vetted from a local vet near to the horse but not her own vet and as far as she knows not the sellers vet. The vet did say that most things he has vetted from there he has failed (?!)

The horse was not 'sold as seen' My friend rode the horse and explained that she wanted something with decent breeding (which this definitely has) and something that would take her up the ranks to hopefully a high level at BD. Having ridden at AM level she wanted something young she could start off herself

This horse though was 'apparently' bred by the seller and had a foal as a three year old. The mare was then backed and bought into work in Sep 2012 and then sold to my friend in March as a five year old.

The mare has had normal routine since my friend got her. In the stable at night and then turn out for half the day.

To be honest the horse hasn't even barely trotted with her rider, the reason my friend has done nothing with the mare (that could cause any injuries) is that there has been a mounting issue. The horse expolded the first time she was sat on and there after the next few times. My friend went back to re backing the horse and when lunged noticed the lameness/shortness in stride behind.
In trot on a circle on concrete the mare was lame in front.

The seller has been contacted and my friend is waiting for a reply.

The vet is coming Monday
 
coreteam1 said:
sorry for late reply :)


The horse was not 'sold as seen' My friend rode the horse and explained that she wanted something with decent breeding (which this definitely has) and something that would take her up the ranks to hopefully a high level at BD. Having ridden at AM level she wanted something young she could start off herself
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Sold as Seen doesn't mean sold from the field, it's a get out clause which people put on receipts which leaves the onus on the buyer to look for and identify problems. However with a dealer I don't think it has real legal standing

The alternative would be to warrant it sound or free from vices etc.
 
This is taken from Jacki Fulton (Equine solicitor) website.

Buying from a dealer

There are many horse dealers and organisations in the UK that deal in buying and selling horses, and as the sport continues to grow, the number of dealers specialising in the sale of horses are increasing. Because these dealers are selling horses in the course of business, the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) applies to the sale of their goods (horses) and it imposes implied terms which protect the buyer. These terms are:-



•the horse must be fit for the purpose for which it was sold;
•the horse must be of satisfactory quality;
•the horse must be as described by the seller during the sales process.



In the event of dispute after purchase, these statutory terms can be relied upon by the buyer. If the buyer can prove that the horse was not sold in accordance with the statutory terms, he has the right to reject the horse.

It is, however, impossible for a purchaser to ask every question about a horse and its past during the buying process, and it is even more difficult in the event of a dispute to prove what was and was not asked by the buyer and said in response, by the seller. It is therefore a good idea to have a checklist of questions to ask the seller. The seller should sign the checklist to confirm that your notes do match what he has said about the horse. If the seller refuses to sign the checklist, you have to ask yourself ‘well why not’?. The buyer should keep the checklist along with a written note of the answers given by the seller.
 
Did the buyer contact the seller at the point of the initial problem? Tbh, that revelation bothers me more!

It is, unfortunately, quite possible to make a horse sore in a couple of weeks, the question is why is it sore? The difficulty is that even if it had a pre-existing condition or has a degenerative one, it may very well have been perfectly sound in it's previous home. Look how many horses on here are sound one day, lame the next from something that has clearly been on going.

The getting on problem is, to me, almost a bigger issue. That made the horse not fit for purpose right off the bat. Did the buyer take video? What did the seller have to say when contacted?
 
If your friend wants to pursue this legally I suggest you get this thread pulled. You have given a nice bit of detail and also stated that the mare "exploded" the first time she was ridden at your friends. It is very likely she injured herself at that point and it is nothing to do with the seller. Horses are not machines, the go wrong from time to time. Unless you have evidence ie a different breeder listed in the passport there is no reason to state "apparently" the vendor bred her. The mare has had alot of change, is very young and her body is changing shape all the time.
Get the original bloods from the vetting tested and go from there.
 
Not at all knowledgeable/experienced about the OP's situation but just wanted to say, Amage, not necessarily true re the breeder being in passport being black and white proof, as our boy's passport initially said we are his breeders, but actually we just had him repassported, and they put us as breeders!
 
TarrSteps said:
Did the buyer contact the seller at the point of the initial problem? Tbh, that revelation bothers me more!

It is, unfortunately, quite possible to make a horse sore in a couple of weeks, the question is why is it sore? The difficulty is that even if it had a pre-existing condition or has a degenerative one, it may very well have been perfectly sound in it's previous home. Look how many horses on here are sound one day, lame the next from something that has clearly been on going.

The getting on problem is, to me, almost a bigger issue. That made the horse not fit for purpose right off the bat. Did the buyer take video? What did the seller have to say when contacted?
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Yes I know exactly what you mean about the mounting issue and agree totally. Yes there was a video to advertise the horse which looks wonderful. My friend said that when she went to try the mare, she was wonderfully behaved. She said she could put her leg against/on her and she showed no sign of discomfort or any behaviour issues. Although my friend is a very good and confident rider she didn't want something like a sharp professional ride. She definitely would have backed off if this mare had showed her any signs of not being rideable.
The seller said she would consider part exhange when my friend contacted her about the behaviour issues. She has yet to reply about the lameness
 
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