new horse trying to bite , not sure why

[flaxen tail]

New cob seems friendly and is the first one to come over and say hello , but then puts ears flat looks mean and will sometimes try and bite , it seems like he wants to be friendly then cant handle it . I have had vet out she thinks just be firm and confident as hes ok health wise . I am not sure how to tell if hes being defensive , aggressive or if hes a bit scared . Hes settled in really well with the herd and with the routine we have . He was only cut about a year ago so maybe something to do with that , hes 6 now . He nearly got me tonight when I tried to clean his eyes , I scolded him but didnt touch him then went back and did them and he seemed ok but I am starting to feel a bit wary of him . I dont want it to escalate but have never had to deal with this before and really curious as to what could cause it, and also hoping hes not just a bad tempered horse , just hoping someone has encountered this and has some advice and can say it gets better as they settle in more in their new home .

 

[vanrim]

Could be a sign of gastric ulcers.

 

[be positive]

It could simply be that he has been given treats and showing his displeasure when you don't have any, if it is that try and greet him with a pat, get the headcollar on and be confident about handling him, show him you want to be the leader but still be his friend by being firm, fair and consistent in dealing with him, being cut late can mean they are a bit more expressive and sensitive to your reactions so try not to back off when he puts his ears back, speak to him in a light voice and only get cross if he does become more serious.

 

[kathantoinette]

I've got a new horse bought from a good friend (who bred him) - he came from a large herd where he was no where near to top of the pecking order to just him and my little cob who he is now the boss over. He is trying to bite me on a regular basis - worse in a morning when I'm turning out. I think he's trying to assert his dominance over me.

 

[fburton]

I think he's trying to assert his dominance over me.

Supposing that's right, what does this suggest the solution should be? What kind of things ought the handler be doing?

 

[Shay]

I think bepositive answered that one quite well.

I would tend to agree it is a show of dominance. He is new. He needs to know where he stands. He may well have been given treats previously - that can make this worse. You need to show him you can be a good herd leader for him. Be firm and confident (even if you are not really!). Be very consistent in what you ask of him and how you handle him. Don't let his behaviour move your feet - move his instead. Ignore the faces but reprimand any serious attempt to bite

 

[tatty_v]

My friend's new little cob is exactly the same - he has no concept of personal space, is always pushing his face in your face, is a pain to lead etc. He got me on the knuckles the other day. However, he is improving with consistent, firm handling. I praise the good behaviour, reprimand the bad and maintain the boundaries at all times, plus no treats and no feeding from the hand. Plenty of groundwork also helps!

 

[holeymoley]

He's fairly young and the relationship is relatively new . Sounds like he's just at it . I agree with the poster that said move him instead of him moving you . Even if he doesn't , make sure you do something which tells him what to do . Means your dominant . Also cut any hand feeding of treats until there's a good relationship formed and he understands right from wrong .

 

[BlackVelvet]

You need to be very firm when handling a horse like this or they will walk all over you. Sounds like he is trying to 'put you in your place' my advice would be try really hard not to lash out with him, even if he manages to bite you.

I had a big polish bred horse who was extremely snappy with his teeth when the feeling took him, it was the main reason he was so cheap! I have witnessed prior to me buying him quite frankly disgusting behaviour from his previous owners such as smacking him over the head with whips and lead ropes! None of this stuff works with a horse like this, it makes them scared and defensive. I could always tell if someone had been like this with him as he hide at the back of his box and snap at you, tbh it was heartbreaking to see.

I would always make him walk properly to and from the field and try to change rugs with him tied up, sudden movements was often enough to stop him in his tracks if he turned to nibble. My Mum always used to say he hated having fly spray on and would run around his stable, I however didn't have the same problem and he stood like a lamb. Towards the end of his life he was actually a very sweet horse, was never pushy or nippy. It goes to show that a problem like this can be solved!

 

[flaxen tail]

Thanks everyone for great advice and replies , and for the hope that things will improve ! but with correct handling , I googled a bit about this problem before posting for advice and a lot said to really go for the horse physically but most of the sites were american and I think it will be better to become a 'leader' move his feet as you have said , I have done this before with my mare but she was just pushy and pully and there was no biting to contend with, She is section d and so is new cob ! I think maybe he is being defensive rather than aggressive . Funny Vanrim said gastric ulcers as he does windsuck a bit although this is becoming less and he tries to bite when you put a rug on him and when you take it off . He is only 6 and I think we are his 6 th home at least which I would think is a lot .

 

[Damnation]

Supposing that's right, what does this suggest the solution should be? What kind of things ought the handler be doing?

Calm, consistent and firm.

If he tries to nip, push him back out of your space. If he doesn't respond, put your hand/arm above your head and stamp your feet, basically make yourself bigger than him.

In a herd situation horses use body language to make themselves bigger and to show displeasure at their personal space being invaded.

You want to teach him that he cannot invade your space like that.

Nipping is also very stalliony/colty behaviour so it may take a while to get rid of the behaviour, but this is where I would start.

Also - if he is already nippy, do not feed treats from your hand/pocket. If he gets treats, put them into a bucket them give him the bucket.

 

[Merrymoles]

Mine was a proper biter when I got him - ripped coats and gave me bruises. He was also headshy so I suspect one thing had led to another, although I doubt treats were involved in his case - late gelding may have been.

I had a firm policy of "elbow meets nose accidentally" whenever possible or shrieking in horror if it wasn't possible, which made his eyes come out on stalks in his own horror and he always backed off.

I can now treat by hand and he never bites deliberately (fingers sometimes disappear into mouth if he's over-enthusiastic) but he remains the most "mouthy" horse I have ever met. He will bump my shoulder while I am leading him but that stops with an "oi" if necessary and there is no biting. However, it is still impossible to get a headcollar on him without the noseband disappearing into his mouth - never a problem to bit obviously

But generally he is now reasonably well mannered and no longer headshy so all in all, a win.

 

[Hexx]

My mare has been nicknamed "Termite" because she bites so much. She is on loan to my best friend who has sported some really nasty bruises from bites.

It all stemmed from her being loaned to a teenager (before I got her) for a couple of months - said teenager was a bit "handy" and rough when it came to handling horses and made the mare quite headshy and snappy.

We try to avoid situations where she can bite - so is tied up short when groomed, tacked up, rugged up and shod. We don't smack her as this seemed to make her worse, but use the voice and body positioning to get her to back up and behave. She gets fed treats from a bucket and everyone on the yard knows not to approach her, particularly when she is eating to having quiet time in her box.

The behaviour has reduced, thanks to my friend's consistent approach, but I don't think she will ever stop.

 

[Sparemare]

Is he girthy OP?

 

[flaxen tail]

Hi Sparemare, no not girthy but really doesnt like rugs being put on or taken off , hes ok to brush , he windsucks after his bucket feed but this is getting less now and I would say he could look a bit better condition wise he seems to lack topline , he also holds his tail very slightly to the right but tracks up ok , vet said his gut sounds were good

 

[sport horse]

He has been a colt for 5 years approx and what you describe is colty behaviour especially if he has not been handled by people accustomed to training stallions.

I would suggest, as have several others, that you remain calm and quiet but have a zero tolerance policy. Tie him up when you are grooming/rugging/tacking him so that he cannot nip you - it is fairer to him and will help him learn that he must stand still without biting. Do what you need to with him but then leave him alone and do not try to pet him - that may/may not come in time. I have several horses that do not particularly like being fiddled with so we do not fiddle with them! QED

Good luck and do not be afraid to ask a good horseman for help f you need it.

 

[cblover]

For what it's worth, I rescued a very underweight clydesdale filly last year as an 8 month old. I call her Scrappy!! Check out some of my threads....some will say about biting and kicking like hell. I tried all sorts of things to help her feel she didn't need to bite or kick. I changed her routine, my behaviour, was very patient with her, you name it. To my absolute astonishment (and embarrassment) a friend took her for 3 weeks and he said she was hungry. I'd been feeding her with ad-lib hay, fast fibre, micronised linseed, Forageplus winter balancer and salt. She was never ever once without food but was I was feeding her didn't satisfy her and wasn't nutritionally filling her. Her stomach was sore and it was making her grumpy. I'm not saying it's the same in your situation but I'd never of believed in a million years that this was the case for Scrappy.

She came back looking amazing and will let me brush her anywhere, pick all her feet up and clean them out, no biting, no kicking and at the weekend I even got a rug on her with little fuss and did up the leg straps ect. Believe me not very long ago this would of been I possible. She literally is like a different horse. Good luck, hope this helps.

 

[ladyt25]

Mine has done this for a few years but is much better now. I realised fairly early that he does it when he gets worried/stressed. I don't know whether it's trying to get reassurance or not? Do youngsters do this with their dams?

I think you do just have to be very firm yes as they need to know it's not acceptable. Lots of ground work establishing some controls works well and, just be ready and always careful until you work out what triggers the behaviour. Certainly, for now definitely do not give treats by hand.

 

[Merrymoles]

For what it's worth, I rescued a very underweight clydesdale filly last year as an 8 month old. I call her Scrappy!! Check out some of my threads....some will say about biting and kicking like hell. I tried all sorts of things to help her feel she didn't need to bite or kick. I changed her routine, my behaviour, was very patient with her, you name it. To my absolute astonishment (and embarrassment) a friend took her for 3 weeks and he said she was hungry. I'd been feeding her with ad-lib hay, fast fibre, micronised linseed, Forageplus winter balancer and salt. She was never ever once without food but was I was feeding her didn't satisfy her and wasn't nutritionally filling her. Her stomach was sore and it was making her grumpy. I'm not saying it's the same in your situation but I'd never of believed in a million years that this was the case for Scrappy.

She came back looking amazing and will let me brush her anywhere, pick all her feet up and clean them out, no biting, no kicking and at the weekend I even got a rug on her with little fuss and did up the leg straps ect. Believe me not very long ago this would of been I possible. She literally is like a different horse. Good luck, hope this helps.

I tend to agree with Cblover on this - my boy was definitely much worse if hungry. He is now on ad lib haylage as he is not a greedy horse so never finishes it all but it does seem to help him to keep his equilibrium and, thus, his manners.