New horse vetted today - possible sarcoid??

samleigh

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After a long 11 mnths with my Mare she was PTS early March & I began a search for a new horse.

I have found & clicked with a lovely mare, everything on my check list & more, the pro yard (sales livery) she is at is lovely & has had some very positive posts on this forum, I obviously looked her over, other than a small splint, nothing alarmed me.

5 stage Vetted today at 9.30am, at 11am the pro rider called, saying she had flown through the vetting, other than a little concern over a mark on her back, but the vet wasn't overly concerned, it wasn't nr the saddle area! Cue A Happy New owner.

But then the vet phoned at 5pm, to say what a lovely mare, no problems at all, But she has a very small sarcoid, just behind where a large saddle pad would end, that she recommends I have lasered, I know the Vet well unfortunately due to the last year, she thinks the new Mare lovely, very complimentary & is perfect for me to have fun on & isn't in any way saying I walk away from the purchase, the opposite, just that she recommends treatment £250.00.

I phoned back the Pro Rider, surprised as she says this wasn't flagged as being a Big issue at all while being vetted, no budge on price for treatment as I have already got a sizeable reduction on price (owners personnel issues). The pro says the mark has not been an issue in 5mnths of her being with them, been clipped over twice, no changes & says leave it alone, she even offered a second vet opinion on it as she isn't convinced it is anything nasty.

Obviously this also means no insurance for sarcoids, if they were to be a problem! Which I find very scary, without insurance this last year, it would of been 100 x more stressful.

7yrs old, coloured mare.

WWYD?
 

Firewell

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Something sounds fishy with what you have said I would walk away too. I dunno... something about your getting such a big discount anyway due to owners circumstances. What circumstances. If she's such a big discount why hasn't she sold already, 5 months is a long time to be up for sale. The dealer glossing over the issue. Was it your vet that you used or one recommended by the dealer. I'm not sure..
Can you find a horse by word of mouth through your local riding club?
I feel after what you have been through you should walk away and find a horse for sale through word of mouth.
 

Meowy Catkin

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Two of my horses have had lumps removed that were thought to be either sarcoids or melanomas and after histology it turned out that none of the lumps were sarcoids or melanomas. Plus I've had a serious riding accident in the past, so due to this I wouldn't pass up a really good horse for a lump that the Vet thinks can easily be removed.
 

Squeak

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The fact that it could be irritated by tack when ridden would make me walk away. I've bought a horse with a sarcoid and another one that the vet thought potentially could have had one and had no regrets about doing so but with both it wouldn't have interfered with ridden work and hence leaving them was an option.
 

AdorableAlice

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No horse is perfect I suppose, I would still walk away though. The vet saying that £250 could treat the horse would make the think, oh great I have a vet bill before I even start enjoying my new horse. Lets face it we all run permanent vet bills so why buy a horse that needs immediate vet attention. Plus if there is an intention to insure the horse you are already in the stinky stuff. Have you asked to see the previous veterinary records ? The fact that the horse has failed to sell out of a pro yard would make me want more info and to see the previous records.
 

ROMANY 1959

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I would ask if it could be removed by owner at their cost, then look at horse again after you are sure what the lump is.. Or maybe that's not a possibility then sorry walk away, there are many horses out there without sarcoidosis, if that is what it is..
 

junglefairy

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I bought a horse with sarcoids about a year ago. Within 6 months she was retired due to lameness and kissing spines, both largely due to conformation. The sarcoids have never been a problem, in fact they've shrunk since using Global Herbs Sarc-ex.

Based on my experience I'd probably be more concerned about poor conformation than one small sarcoid on the back.

However, it is a risk and they can spread further. You do have to be prepared to invest some time and money treating if that's the case, but if the horse is otherwise a bargain then I'd personally be inclined to take the risk and have some savings to treat if necessary.
 

Goldenstar

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I would be cautious , sarcoids are funny things sometimes you have one taken off and that's that's and sometimes they develop into a disaster.
I would buy a horse I like a lot with sarcoids but with my eyes open £ 250 is quite cheap IME for lasering a sarcoid so be sure you check that .
Fatty gets nodular sarcoids he's had lots removed with the laser over the years it's expensive gory and a pain to manage when they are healing after lasering .
I would advise you to have photographs of the sarcoid sent to a specialist for advise before you proceed , the vet doing the vetting should do this for you.
 

Red-1

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I turned some horses down because of Sarcoids. It was the ticking time bomb that worried me.

With this one, the sarcoid may be behind the saddle pad, but TBH Sarcoids usually occur where rubbing of the skin takes place, so I would imagine it may not be behind the pad on all occasions.

IMO a horse with an inactive sarcoid is worth 50% of value, as long as it is not in a tack place. An active sarcoid, or one where the tack sits would be a no no for me. As would one that had been unsuccessfully meddled with.

IF this one were really way back behind the saddle, and I liked the horse and felt safe, and the price were half what I would consider it was worth, then I MAY consider it.
 

CeeBee

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I have a horse who had a tiny sarcoid on his neck and when he was in vet hospital for an unrelated issue, had the sarcoid lasered while he was there. Lasering didn't remove the sarcoid and aggravated it. This resulted in the tiny sarcoid becoming the size of a digestive biscuit (it was flat rather that raised). Subsequently the vet advised treatment with Liverpool cream. This removed the sarcoid and 6 years on, no issues and no further sarcoids have appeared. However, it left a huge scar. This has never affected him and you can only see it when he has his summer coat. If the sarcoid had been on his back, near the saddle area, rather than his neck, I think it would have caused issues as it did take a good 4 months to heal up....
 

Slightlyconfused

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Two of my horses have had lumps removed that were thought to be either sarcoids or melanomas and after histology it turned out that none of the lumps were sarcoids or melanomas. Plus I've had a serious riding accident in the past, so due to this I wouldn't pass up a really good horse for a lump that the Vet thinks can easily be removed.

This. One of mine has lumps on his neck. We had two removed to see what they were and turned out to be fatty like lumps (too early for the big words used)

My other horse has just finished laser and Liverpool treatment for two sarciods that appeared six months after I got him.

Is it worth taking a.picture and sending off to Liverpool and Prof sarciod to see what he thinks?

Also it's a bit off of the pro rider to tell you about the vetting. That was the vets job.
 

Red-1

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Another thought to add to the mix... Often sarcoids get worse when the horse is stressed, so a home move is a ripe time for one to start to be active, even if it has not been...
 

FfionWinnie

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Prorider is selling the horse?

Sounds like they wanted you to go and get it before the vet phoned.

Good friend has a lovely horse who had some insignificant small sarcoids. Treated with LC some years ago. Never been an issue.

However currently undergoing treatment for the second time in about 6 months to have a large sarcoidal growth in mouth lasered off. It's started to come back hence they are doing it again. It's only about 10.
 

Merrymoles

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I have a horse with a sarcoid on his face. He can wear a noseband but I generally choose not to for fear of rubbing it. Touch wood, it is inactive and has not changed in the 3.5 years I have owned him.

However, I knew about it when I bought him and was prepared to deal with whatever outcome there was. He has two more possible sarcoids on his sheath as well, but again, they haven't changed and could be warts.

The thing about sarcoids is that they are unpredictable and always a risk. If I liked a horse, I might risk it, depending on how the sarcoid appeared, but there are no guarantees that it won't change in the future. However, there is also no guarantee that if you buy a sarcoid-free horse, it won't develop one the following week.

ETA My previous horse also had sarcoids, the worse of which dropped off, left a hole which I managed, and never had a problem again. I'm guessing I have been lucky but have tended to go down the no intervention unless absolutely necessary route.
 

ycbm

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Regular users will know that I will willingly take on sarcoids at the right price. But they can grow roots into nerves, and if this one is anywhere close to her spine I would walk away. You really have no idea how deep it will go until it's treated, and as others have said, treatment which is not 100% successful can make them a lot worse. I also did not know until more recently that if the horse has the active virus in its system, that any cut, scrape or fly bite can trigger a new one.
 
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stormox

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It might not even be a sarcoid, though. Horses can get lumps for many reasons. If you like her I would have her. There are far worse faults. I bought a horse with sarcoids up between his thighs, one disappeared on its own, I banded the other one, cant even see where they were now.
On the back is a very unusualplace to get a sarcoid,they are usually where skin is the thinnest, thighs, face etc
 

Crackerz

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I wouldn't walk away - you don't have to get it treated straight away and having an exclusion on sarcoids or skin complaints wouldnt bother me in the slightest, but then, i have a savings pot rather than insurance as it just seems everything gets excluded so easily!!

If the mare is everything you want and the vet is happy, go for it!
 

BroadfordQueen

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I wouldn't walk away, but I'd push for more off the price (depending how much horse is/what reduction you've already got). My mare developed a sarcoid looking lump right where her girth goes, and I couldn't ride her without a padded sheepskin girth sleeve and even then it would rub and bleed. Eventually got a biopsy done and it was sent to labs for testing- we were all convinced it was a sarcoid, but it was just a cyst caused by a foreign object. If the horse is perfect in every way, and you can't bare the thought of not owning it, then I think you should look into investigating it further.
 

oldie48

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I has a horse that developed what looked like a small verrucous sarcoid on the inside of his thigh a couple of months after purchase. It wasn't interfering with anything but vet suggested surgical removal. It was a complete success but as I didn't have it biopsied it may not have been a sarcoid. My new horse has developed a small lump on his neck which the vet thinks is possibly a sarcoid, I'm monitoring it as I think it's most likely a reaction to a fly bite. Trouble is, vets are very cautious these days and will note anything that might be a sarcoid. It is more unusual to have a sarcoid on the back, I believe, why not take up the option of a second opinion. You still don't have to go with the horse if you are unsure but if 2 vets say it's definitely a sarcoid, then it may make your decision easier.
 

_GG_

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Gosh, I feel sorry for pro riders nowadays! They can't win can they. They didn't give the vetting report, they just said what happened and they disclosed the query over a mark on the back. The amount of times I see posts where people are waiting, frustrated with their vets for that phone call about a vetting, I know a few people who have just phoned the seller or asked the seller to call them for a heads up while they wait.

Also, there's nothing unusual about a horse going unsold for 5 months, especially over the winter months. There are so many absolutely amazing horses out there that have nothing wrong with them, some even really lovely horses, that have been unsold for a lot longer.
The assumption that the pro riders here are being anything but perfectly fine is beyond me.

As for the horse, I would ask myself if she was, in every other way, as described by the seller. If it was, the chances are, they are telling the truth and it hasn't changed and hasn't been a big deal. If the horse suits you and you click with her, I would go for it...perhaps get a second opinion or send a photograph to Liverpool and Prof. K but it wouldn't worry me massively if I felt that I could make sure it wouldn't be in contact with tack.

I'd be more concerned about a vet advising a procedure on something so subjective off the back of a vetting, so I'm afraid I would question that. Lasering is not the only option, by far, so I wouldn't feel happy with that being the recommendation off the bat.

Think about how the horse makes you feel, think about the realities of horses...as another poster has said, you could buy a horse with no sarcoid and it could break down for another reason...they are a big risk as we're not buying machines.

I can understand not budging on sales price if the horse is already vastly reduced and IMO, those who are selling at a reduced price due to personal issues that are not genuine, put a gringeworthy ad on social media instead of paying through the nose for sales livery. The seller clearly wants what's best for the horse and not to just get rid, so that speaks volumes to me.

Whatever you decide, it will be the right decision for you and that's all that matters. Good luck, she sounds lovely and yes, I probably would buy if I were in your shoes.
 

The wife

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I bought a horse knowing full well he had sarcoids, other than one growing which has now been treated with blood root cream, they have never caused him any problems... would I buy another with them? No! But only because when re-selling the moment you mention sarcoids to potential owners they withdraw very quickly.

If the horse is perfect and you have no intentions of selling I would go for it. Good luck. Sounds lovely
 

Annagain

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I'm torn on this. Having a horse with melanomas in his sheath which (partly due to his stroppiness to have the area touched) are difficult to manage and are getting worse makes me say walk away. They will kill him, but living with them is more of an issue for me.

Having said that, my share horse had sarcoids removed before his owner bought him 15 years ago and he hasn't had a day's trouble since. He has a nasty scar on his chest so will never win a showing class but he's fine. Of coure they may not have been sarcoids in the first place.

Could you ask your vet if (s)he could take a needle aspirate from the lump? It's a quick and fairly pain free procedure and at least you'd know what you're dealing with then. I had one done on a lump on my dog and it only cost about £50.
 

SusieT

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wouldn't touch it. it is a effectively a type of skin cancer and can suddenly become an issue- particularly near the saddle! would need at least 1000 off the price and even then I'd be very very wary..(and lasering them can make them more angry in small number of cases- do you want those complications?)
 

eggs

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I wouldn't walk away but I would ask for photos to be taken and sent to Dr Knottenbelt at Liverpool for his opinion before agreeing to purchase.

One of my home breds developed five small sarcoids that did not interfere with tack. Following advice from Dr K he was treated with Liverpool Cream (he sailed through the treatment - even my vet was surprised that he didn't have to sedate him for any of the applications) and has had no problem since.
 

Meowy Catkin

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I wouldn't walk away but I would ask for photos to be taken and sent to Dr Knottenbelt at Liverpool for his opinion

I just want to point out that this happened with one of my horse's lumps. Prof K thought that it was a sarcoid and recommended that it was surgically removed with a wide border and that the wound was not stitched. This was done and the horse healed up really well leaving a small scar. The lump was sent to histology and it was NOT a sarcoid, thank goodness.

I do wonder how many lumps that are thought to be sarcoids actually aren't, but as they don't get sent off to the lab, what they really are is never identified.
 
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