New horse's manners are appalling!

Just Horsing Around

Just Horsing Around

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Hi,

Two months ago, I bought a 7 year old 14.3hh, Morgan gelding and his manners are appalling.

He is from a riding school, in which the way they handled him was questionable. They had mentioned that he nipped but would hand feed him packet of mints and when they tacked him they left him loose in a stable as he barged into them, personally I prefer to tie my horses up when I tack them and he will NOT stand quietly - he has broken one bridle and snapped a lead rope so far and his given me several bruises from when he has crushed me against walls.

I have completely forbidden hand-feeding him and his biting has stopped but unfortunately I have seen no improvement in his stable manners and he now also barges into you and races ahead when you lead him!
I have read all the books and horse forums and I am really desperate for advice! Please Help! I don't want to sell him!

- Eve
 
Are you sure he is actually 7? I would say work him loose in a confined area first and teach him that he needs to listen and watch and generally respect you, then start him again in hand. You might need a controller headcollar, but it is better to take extra time with step A and not need one. He could genuinely be frightened of being tied up, so take your time with that one too.

You've only had hime 2 months and many horses kick over the traces with new owners in the first few weeks. He sounds quite a dominant character and he is testing to see if he is higher than you on the ladder.
 
Thank you for your reply.

His birth certificate is for march 2007, so yes he is actually 7.

I try working in a confined area ASAP.

I have ordered a dually headcollar for back-up and I am unsure of whether I should gain his trust or respect first.

Fingers crossed he will improve!
 
Without seeing it's hard to tell if he's just being rude or if he genuinely doesn't know his manners. The barging and crushing in a confined area is often stress related. Some horses become flighty and 'light on their toes' when stressed, others switch off and throw their weight around in a tizz.

He needs to go back to square one and be shown and taught the correct manners. He needs to learn to correct actions when asked to stand still or move over. He needs to be shown how to lead correctly. He most certainly needs to learn how to 'give' to pressure. It needs to be consistent and calm but firm, your timing needs to be excellent and you MUST be able to distinguish between lack of understanding and training, and when he's just being rude. If you're not used to working with youngsters (his level of training sounds to be at that stage) then maybe get a good instructor in to help you, one who specialises in groundwork lessons.
 
I do agree with Kallibear - thinking of it as "manners" implies horses somehow have a handle on human etiquette. If we think this, we think they will somehow know how to behave in polite society! In fact, it's much easier to think of it as just behaviours. What you describe is a horse performing a lot of behaviours that you don't want. The cure is to focus on the behaviours you *do* want, and work out how to train them.

That's why "respect" and "trust" aren't really helpful either - just because a horse trusts you, doesn't mean they will automatically start keeping the distance you want, leading the way you want, standing still when you want. Instead, you need to go through a process of training them how you want them to behave when led, when being tacked up etc. Appropriate use of reward in training this can help (as distinct from random polo mints ;) ).
 
That's good you've got an instructor coming. Hopefully they're good. If they recommend just smacking him regularly, find someone else! A well timed smack is extremely useful and effective but not the main method of training!

The most basic and simple exercise you can practise is making him go backwards at just a light touch. Your aim is have him politely step backwards when you 'face up to him' and step into his 'space', with a gentle prod on the chest. My big horses doesn't even need that: I simply square up to him, gesture at his chest and say 'back'. He'll reverse until I stop.

First however he needs to stay out of your space! Stand in front of him somewhere he feels calm and relaxed (with plenty of room to drive him away into if needed) and have his attention on you (tug his head back to pay attention if needed). Stand with his nose a foot or so in front of you so he's not too close. Let him just stand at peace and praise him, with you in a quiet 'neutral' pose (think the human equivalent of them standing dozing in the field with head lowered and their bottom lip drooping). If he tries to get too close or bump into you (that most definitely included nudging you with him nose!!!), you need to send HIM back and away. It is NOT you who should be moving! How 'aggressive' you need to be depends on his temperament. It can range just squaring your body language and glaring at him with a raised finger up to Scary-Screaming-Madwoman who lunges forwards at him, shaking arms and leadrope and threatening to eat him...... If he's thick skinned he'll quite possibly need a real shock so he realises that squishing you might not be all that good a plan! The important thing is he scuttles off backwards without needing to pull on the leadrope. You need to be willing to up the game until he does. As soon as he backs off away from you, revert instantly to your quiet, neutral pose and praise him. Don't follow him more than necessary, just drive him off.

Once he stands peacefully, step into his space beside his neck, squared body language, and touch him in the chest, saying 'Back' . You may need to pull his nose backwards with the headcollar initially. Start with a gentle touch and increase it if he doesn't respond. A skin twist (pinch a bit of skin on his chest and twist) is usually more effective than poke. Or a hoof pick. A sharp slap on the chest to regain his attention may be needed if he's switched off. He MUST go backwards once you've started, even if you have to chase him. As soon as he's taken a full step backwards away from you, lots of praise and back to quiet neutral pose. Each time it should require less input from you.

That is basically the foundation to all other exercises. He needs to learn to move away from pressure ('mental' pressure i.e MY personal space, not yours , as well as physical. ) It can then be adapted to move him sideways etc.
 
Bad mannered horses are a nightmare, I've had to deal with a couple of very spoilt youngsters before! The advice given is very good and I can't really add much to it, but I always think it's very useful to sit and watch a group of horses interacting in a field- watch how they teach each other manners in "horse language" and respect each other's space. A dominant horse will easily move another less dominant horse off and will not have their personal space invaded (unless welcomed, eg mutual grooming). It's your job to be that lead horse :) It helped me to look at it from that perspective anyway!
 
I got my first baby horse last year and although she didn't have bad manners, she didn't really know how to behave around humans so I've had to do lots of specific training that none of my older horses have ever needed. I've found clicker training really helpful with her, mainly because it really makes you focus on the positive - rewarding for getting things right. You don't necessarily have to use food as the reward - if you can find an itchy spot, giving a scratch works well too. When I use food, I often click and then put the treat into her feed bowl rather than feeding from the hand. Might be worth looking at for yours too.
 
I've used a dually headcollar on a very stroppy horse before, and it really helped. Look up the monty roberts "how to use" the headcollar on youtube, and it gives you a good start with some ground work exercises.

I've wacthed some of the monty roberts videos on his "university". They were the free ones, and werent much use to me, but I think if I'd have forked out for the ones you have to pay for, it will give you more of an idea with him
 
Don't lose heart - take on board all the great advice given - wear a hat so you don't get your head bashed accidentally whilst handling in a confined space. Daughters gelding was a bargey ill mannered chap and we have quietly insisted he behaves over many months. We never move out of his space- he moves out of ours. He wouldn't pick feet up and now offers them quietly when he comes in from field or hack. He moves back when tea bucket comes into stable - doesn't dive to hay until headcollar removed and he is told it is OK. Time to get to know you and the routines helps and keep up your confidence because it will improve.
 
Not a lot to add to the excellent advice above except to say be completely consistent - don't ever accept anything less than best behaviour. I don't mean harsh treatment, but he will be a lot happier and start behaving a lot sooner if it is crystal clear where the boundaries are.

In horse terms, he can't "trust" you to be a leader until he "respects" your ability to lead and make decisions. That's very humanised, but if you're thinking in those terms it might help. In any case, if he doesn't lead to respect you you aren't particularly going to enjoy the relationship and the "trust" is superfluous!
 
You have been given excellent advice, but please don't try the methods all at once, you will confuse yourself and your horse, pick a method, try it for a decent while, then move on to another method if needed. The secret is very simple, be consistent, be calm and be fair. Good luck, it will work
 
A bit of blue pipe to thwack them with.....

Morgans can be a bit hyper, so upping the ante with them will just cause them to up the ante back. Clear, calm and well timed aids are what will win the day, and really you need a good groundwork instructor to show you. Whatever method you use will confuse the horse if the timing isn't right. The best thing I ever did with my youngster was have a few groundwork lessons - it just sharpened up my reactions, and we wouldn't have been able to do that from a book or from t'interweb.
 
Blue pipe ( MDPE water pipe) is actually rather effective and can be useful, but not recommend it in this case. It's hollow and lightweight and slightly flexible. It makes a loud noise if you hit them with it but doesn't do more than sting.

That's great news re instructor OP. Hope they can help.

But just bear in mind that giving a horse a 'deserved' well timed smack and being very firm is very different from beating them. The first is very effective and can be necessary ( and saves much ineffective faffing and fluffy bunny nonsense). Plenty of people will recommend a smack yet in no way condone beating a horse. Just like you can use a length of blue pipe without going mad a beating the poor animal!
 
UPDATE!

Yesterday he was an angel, stood perfectly in his stable - no barging and messing around and I was so pleased. However today he played hell with the instructor, tried crushing her against the stable, barging into me when he is being lead. I'm really disappointed in him! Guess this teaches me not to get my hopes up!
 
Rome wasn't built in a day. It takes time and consistency, you'll see some small changes in his behaviours but don't expect it all at once. Do your groundwork exercises EVERY day, even if you're in a rush and can only do a couple of minutes. Do them on the way to his field when turning him out or when bringing him in from the field, consistency is the key.
 
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