New HOYS Amateur Class !

R

Rambo

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 September 2005
Messages
6,969
Location
South
Visit site
As many of you may be aware the 6yo final has been moved from HOYS to Scope...much to the disgust of many of the pro's. BUT, on a positive note it has been replaced with an Amateur Championship which people will have to qualify for. The full details of the class have not yet been released but I have just received my Pyecombe schedule for the coming month and on there they are talking about the HOYS 1.20m Amateur Class for which they are holding one of the qualifiers on 1st or 2nd August
tongue.gif
Obviously it is going to be a pretty strong class but I just wonder how big the final will be at HOYS ? Logic might dictate that it would start at 1.30m...perhaps pushing it beyond the realms of true amateurs....but one to keep an eye out for nonetheless. At 1.20m it almost feels do-able lol!
 
When i read about this it nearly tempted me out of semi-BSJA retirement, but will be a strong class as you say, and if they use the rankings list still be full of pro's, just those with not as many points!!
tongue.gif


Still, a bit off qualifiers yet!! still time to shake off these winter blues!! (Much prefer out door shows)
 
I think it is 1.20 first round at the final too but the atmosphere might get to some!
grin.gif

Only problem is that they now only award points at 1.30 and up so there will be a few more 'amatuers' floating around.
Having said that, might have a crack at Pyecombe if ponies stay fit enough!
smile.gif
 
Now I wish Dan was still jumping as would have had a crack at that as was quite speedy round a fox track when need be!! And no way Fleur would be up to it considering not registered and not done BSJA in over a year due to cost. done a few unafil decent 3ft3s here and there and prob capable of going round a newcomers but you need a fast established 1m25+ horse at the minimum by soudns to qualify for this one.
 
while i love the idea of an amateur HOYS class that i can jump in i do the beleive that the 6yr old shouldnt be moved.

i also know many riders that are now not bothering to qualify their 6yr olds and i also feel that a 1.20 - 1.30 class is not really a true amateur class - and it will be contested by some very strong riders.
surely that defeats the object??
 
I personally can not believe they have taken the 6 year old class away from HOYS, both Graham Fletcher and Geoff Billington said what a prestigious class it was and how it is the show case for our future Olympic prospects. I was there with trainer this year who was placed and who GF has predicted her mount as a future Olympic prospect, it is a cracking class and deserves its final at HOYS. Qualifyign for Scope is nothing and holds no prestige whatsoever and i know most people won't bother. The 120cm will be full of non "amateurs" and it will just turn into a rat race. If they wanted to put a class like that on they should have moved the Grade C from HOYS which has lost most of its prestige now! Rant off!
 
Um I wonder. I'm assuming this class will carry a levy at the qualifiers like the showing classes do?

If so I have to think this is more of a money raising exercise, after all loads and loads would contend the qualify. Ok feel free to let me know I've got this all wrong
 
Na it will be on rankings list i guess. not in the top 100-250? I dunno what rules they will put on it but it will no doubt exclude medal winning pony riders, therefore allowing extremely talented kids with very expensive horses to do it and as some1 said earlier it will no doubt be full of non amateurs which isnt very fair.

Plus with regards to the 6yr olds, I think it (hope it!) will be reinstated after the petition is presesnted as they said they will re look at it. Would be stupid to move it coz -again repeating some1 else - people will not do the qualifiers now coz no1 wants to jump at scope and production of future top showjumpers will be effected by this vast gap created.
 
I think the 6 YO class should be moved to Scope, and anyway not jumping in it for this reason is just cutting of their nose to spite their face - and with that sort of childish attitude don't really deserve to jump at HOYS.

All the top riders go to Scope at the moment so why are they suddenly going to stop going there?

As it is basically the same horses in the 6YO as the Newcomers final why do they have to be greedy and demand 2 classes?

I think it is a very positive step forward to bring Amateurs back to HOYS - they took the BN final off us, and I just hope that they have the qualifying criteria right. It will also be a very good class to watch and the crowd will love it.
 
I am not in any way saying the amateur class is a bad idea, i think its a fantastic idea! - if its for true amateurs.
Most of the pros go to scope to qualify for hoys or as a pre run. I have spoken to many of them and there is no way they will jump 6yr olds worth 6 figure sums in a final in the outside ring at scope, its just not worth it.
There is no denying that if they move it away from hoys, the knock on effect in production of our future top horses will be compromised. Therefore we will have even less horsepower than we have currently at top international level.
 
I think the BSJA need to really think about the rules that define a "true" amateur is.

I don not both with any of the amateur classes as i know they are full of "pot hunters" so i stick to the normal classes (BN, DIS NEW etc) so i knwo i am in fair competition, this is why i joined the BSJA as i got fed up with the unaffiliated scene and all the "pot hunters" racing their horses about for a bit of ribbion.

Sorry i'll stop ranting now, just my opinon
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have spoken to many of them and there is no way they will jump 6yr olds worth 6 figure sums in a final in the outside ring at scope, its just not worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm afraid I disiagree...I think you'll find them jumping them wherever the classes and the prize money are
blush.gif
There's a lot of sour grapes I think because the pro's see what they think are 'their' classes being taken away from the most prestigious show of the year. Let's face it, the same horses year in year out contend the Newcomers, Grade C, Foxhunter, 6yo and 7yo classes...or a fair mix of them. These horses will still get their experience and they will still be jumping other big classes at Hickstead and the like. Don't for one minute think that the loss of a single final in the main ring at HOYS is going to destroy the whole production line of horses in this country.

Let's face it, many of the 'amateurs' who will be contesting the new class will be the same people who fund the pro's by owning and sponsoring the 6yo's anyway...and Grandstand Media ain't stupid...they will be thinking about keeping the people with the money sweet rather than the paid hands who ride them
blush.gif
 
i agree with char345.

i myself have withdrawn from a class at scope when it was to be held in the death arenas in the bottom field - and that was a young riders class so similar heights.

i know several people that will not jump their talented horses in such conditions - in fact several have said they will bring them sweetly through their 6yr old year with their new aims being the 7yr olds!

tis a debate that can roll on forever - im all for an amateur hoys class ( as it means i can jump it!) but i can completly see why top producers are upset with losing the 6yr olds.
 
I think you'll find like Char says that most producers will not bother with a 6 year old final at Scope. I have spoken to one of the top producers of young horses in this country and they have said there is no way they will jump there young horses in an outside ring at Scope. It is a complete farce. Take the Grade C from HOYS, keep the amateur class and the 6 year old. Gosh the show should be a showcase for our Olympic horses. They shouldn't have to jump at Scope which in most peoples opinions has got to big and is in fact a horrid show!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think you'll find like Char says that most producers will not bother with a 6 year old final at Scope. I have spoken to one of the top producers of young horses in this country and they have said there is no way they will jump there young horses in an outside ring at Scope. It is a complete farce. Take the Grade C from HOYS, keep the amateur class and the 6 year old. Gosh the show should be a showcase for our Olympic horses. They shouldn't have to jump at Scope which in most peoples opinions has got to big and is in fact a horrid show!

[/ QUOTE ]

So are these people never going to jump their horses on grass? If their horse has qualified for the Winter Novice class will they not be jumping in the final as it is on grass. Are they never going to take part in the County Show Circuit? And what if the Olympics was ever jumped on grass - would they refuse to take part?

I thought the decision to have it in an outside ring - and the main arena at Stafford is very nice, was to give the horses experience of jumping not on a surface.
 
Where on earth did i mention grass? I said to compete in one of Scopes outside rings was hardly prestigious and not somewhere our future Olympic prospects should be jumping. For a horse to have qualified for HOYS is something prestigious, any one can compete at Scope hardly has the same ring to it does it? It basically devalues the whole age class system yet again.
 
[ QUOTE ]


So are these people never going to jump their horses on grass? If their horse has qualified for the Winter Novice class will they not be jumping in the final as it is on grass. Are they never going to take part in the County Show Circuit? And what if the Olympics was ever jumped on grass - would they refuse to take part?

I thought the decision to have it in an outside ring - and the main arena at Stafford is very nice, was to give the horses experience of jumping not on a surface.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seeing as the 4, 5 and 6 year old classes at Hickstead are run on grass, I very much doubt this is what KP31 meant.

I totally agree with her. And if the amateur class replacing it is anything like the current "amateur" classes the BSJA run it will be full of professionals on old graded horses.
 
If anyone wants to sign the petition against the 6 year old class being moved to scope, you will find it at many venues, like addington, arena uk for example. you can always go and ask any of the pros, whether it is at the show you are at, they will be happy to point it out.
smile.gif
 
Unfortunately whatever they do now they'll be p155ing someone off
tongue.gif
If they re-instate the 6yo final then they'll have to take the Am class away...and let's face it...the BSJA is largely made up of Amateurs who generate a lot of their revenue year on year.

I find it strange that they would move a prestigious final to an outside ring at Scope too...why not run it in the indoor arena at Stafford which at least has something of the atmosphere that might be encountered at HOYS.

As to people doubting the Amateur status of many competing in the Amateur classes, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what they make the criteria. Whatever they do though, there'll be people on the boundaries....and what everyone has to remember is that, like it or not, money counts for an awful lot in all forms of equestrian sport and there will always be those who can afford to buy their way onto the ladder by getting good horses
crazy.gif
 
People will jump their horses whatever. I jumped the 6 year old qualifiers in 2006. At Royal Windsor we were not even provided with a warm up area. We had to work on a rough hard piece of ground next to the ring and then with two horses left to go were allowed behind the judges box to jump an upright a few times, then into the ring to jump an up to height oxer twice. All of the riders complained as this was totally unacceptable and they were not going to risk their horses. But, in the end, everyone jumped. So to say that they will not jump in the back rings at Scope, I bet they were the same people that jumped their horses at Royal Windsor that year.

I don't think they should take away the Grade C or 6 yrs old at HOYS. I think an amateur class would be fantastic, but it will be full of top riders grooms and jockeys on their international grade A horses. Maybe it should only be open to Grade C horses, or Grade A & B as well as on ranking points.

Ideally the best all round would be finding a way to keep the 6 year old class and have an amateur class. After all it is the grass roots riders who fund show jumping in the end. for every professional rider there are probably 1000 amateurs who are the show centres bread and butter and they deserve their chance at glory as well.
 
[ QUOTE ]
People will jump their horses whatever. I jumped the 6 year old qualifiers in 2006. At Royal Windsor we were not even provided with a warm up area. We had to work on a rough hard piece of ground next to the ring and then with two horses left to go were allowed behind the judges box to jump an upright a few times, then into the ring to jump an up to height oxer twice. All of the riders complained as this was totally unacceptable and they were not going to risk their horses. But, in the end, everyone jumped. So to say that they will not jump in the back rings at Scope, I bet they were the same people that jumped their horses at Royal Windsor that year.

I don't think they should take away the Grade C or 6 yrs old at HOYS. I think an amateur class would be fantastic, but it will be full of top riders grooms and jockeys on their international grade A horses. Maybe it should only be open to Grade C horses, or Grade A & B as well as on ranking points.

Ideally the best all round would be finding a way to keep the 6 year old class and have an amateur class. After all it is the grass roots riders who fund show jumping in the end. for every professional rider there are probably 1000 amateurs who are the show centres bread and butter and they deserve their chance at glory as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the best post in this debate.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People will jump their horses whatever. I jumped the 6 year old qualifiers in 2006. At Royal Windsor we were not even provided with a warm up area. We had to work on a rough hard piece of ground next to the ring and then with two horses left to go were allowed behind the judges box to jump an upright a few times, then into the ring to jump an up to height oxer twice. All of the riders complained as this was totally unacceptable and they were not going to risk their horses. But, in the end, everyone jumped. So to say that they will not jump in the back rings at Scope, I bet they were the same people that jumped their horses at Royal Windsor that year.

I don't think they should take away the Grade C or 6 yrs old at HOYS. I think an amateur class would be fantastic, but it will be full of top riders grooms and jockeys on their international grade A horses. Maybe it should only be open to Grade C horses, or Grade A & B as well as on ranking points.

Ideally the best all round would be finding a way to keep the 6 year old class and have an amateur class. After all it is the grass roots riders who fund show jumping in the end. for every professional rider there are probably 1000 amateurs who are the show centres bread and butter and they deserve their chance at glory as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the best post in this debate.

[/ QUOTE ]


couldn't agree more. well said
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top