New judge accreditation system

FREESTYLER

FREESTYLER

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Thoughts??????? Do you think this is a good idea? If so why? If you do not, why??? I think it is food for thought....... I have yet to decide .......I suppose it depends on what "experience" they are asking for? Does anyone know? Like, in my Opinion, you can have a fab rider, but they do not necessarily make good teachers?? Then you can have fab teachers who are not so well known or bothered about competing but they know how to get the most out of horse and rider?
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Do you mean the fast track for international riders? I personally think it is a wonderful idea. It means that some of the people judging at high levels have actually ridden at those levels. That has to be a good thing. Also, having a larger pool of list 2 and above judges means that more higher level classes can be held.
Sure, riding at GP doesn't mean you can judge automatically, but they do have training and do have to sit exams. And it keeps successful riders engaged in the development of the sport.
 
i DEFINATELY think its a good idea, why should someone (like Dane for example) have to start at the bottom when they have represented the country at the highest level internationally. Gets the thumbs up from me.
 
This is not the fast track system that Madmare mentioned. It is a complete over haul of the the current system of upgrading judges and has been greeted with mixed reviews from the judges I have spoken to.

BD seems to have gone from one extreme to the other. A couple of years ago they put a new system in place which involved invigilated exams (for some levels), various one on one assessments (a fantastic idea IMO ), practise judging and practical exams.

Now it seems that if you know the right people to sign your CV then all you need to do is a written paper (completed at home), One practise judging (which at the higher levels won't even be assessed) and one practical exam.

The new system has pros and cons. For someone like me who struggled to find the time in between teaching, competing, judging etc to carry out all the requirements of the old way then this is a godsend however I worry that it won't necessarily help prevent some people becomming listed or upgrading who perhaps shouldn't be.

I think the one on one assessments were great. It really gave people the opportunity to show the depth (or lack of ) their knowledge and I feel these should be compulsory for trainee and upgrading judges. Obviously the powers that be disagree and felt, I think, that the old way was too complicated and time consuming.

As with all these things time will tell whether they have got it right or wrong.
 
I have fallen between the two systems unfortunately. I have complete my writing (twice) sitting in with List 4 or about (twice) practice judging alongside a listed judge (twice) two training sessions and a regional seminar BUT they wont accept my papers which have been ready since September until February. I understand that under the 'old' system I would have had an assessment day where I judged a Novice test and the examining judge got in the back of the car to listen for 5/6 tests.

I dont know what the 'new' system is and I will be a little narked if it is less demanding as all the above has taken me over a year so far owing to other commitments including competing myself and watching my two daughters who BE event! I did hear that on the assessment day it is planned that the examining judge will judge the entire class in a sperate car then the two sets of marks would be compared. Sounds less intimidating!
 
I suppose my view for what it is worth is that everyone should upon being accepted for training be 'assessed' as to their existing skills. Some of us have ridden and competed for years and have a good deal of experience judging unaffiliated/PC /RC tests and may need only a small amount of training to 'plug the gaps' before being accepted onto a List - while others might not have that experience and need more. We are desperate for judges in our area and indeed up into the Borders fo Scotland and for the training for ALL to take at least a year seems unnecessary.

Of course those competing at a high level should be exempted from much of the 'training' - but they should still be assessed . Judging as mentioned about , is a different skill.
 
The fast track system that exists is all right and good, but of those who have been listed in this way, how often do they judge?

Regarding the new system, I feel quite disappointed. It does seem to be a case of who, rather than what you know and it is being sold as making judge testing easier!!!

Years ago, I suggested to David Holmes the mentoring system for judges which has been introduced at the higher levels. It was my intention that this be for trainee judges and would be a better way of introducing new judges to the system.

Like Turbobert I too have been waiting for an exam date and have been told I will have to wait, now Im not sure I shall bother, unaffiliated judging is very rewarding and doesnt cost me a small fortune like being on the BD trainee list does.
 
I must admit that having seen some scores from, mentioning no names, but from someone who represented the country internationally, in comparison to the other 2 Juges, scoring differences were over 30 but the other 2 Judges were pretty much on par to each other..........ummmmmmmm.....
 
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Hiya Jlav, hope you had a good holiday!!

So how have the other Judges took this then??

[/ QUOTE ]

Hiya, not been on hols yet. Am going at the end of November.
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(Can't wait!!)

The judges I've spoken to have mixed feelings about this and anyone currently going through the old system has been given the opportunity to carry on providing they finish all the requirements by the end of 2008 so the likes of Turbobert should just be able to carry on and do their exam without having to start from scratch. (At least I think that is the case. It definately is for upgrading judges but not sure about trainees)

There is a feeling that it may become a case of who you know rather than what you know but only time will tell.

Personally for my own benefit I'm pleased as it will make it much easier for me but I do have some doubts.
 
I'm not sure about it either!

You have to have 2 people as referees I wonder how many judges/trainers will put their name to a cv or application, as it is going to be very hard for them to say yes to 'A' and no to 'B' withoit upsetting someone, so do they then sign for anyone who asks which makes a mockery of the system or nobody at all in which case there will be no new judges.

Letting a BHSI apply to go straight in at list 4 when someone who has perhaps ridden at elem for years has to go through the whole proceedure is to me wrong, ok, people who have ridden or trained to a high level I can understand, but a BHSI does not necessarily have any consistant dressage experience from shows however much they may need to know to get the qualification, and I'm not knocking them, just saying that we are talking dressage judge not teacher!!

To me its bad that they will have to ask the judges committee before they are allowed to take the exam, instead of putting in for it when they feel they are ready, how will this work? is it a majority vote or can one person say no so the candidate cannot progress? for list 3 upwards its bad enough now trying to upgrade and with this setup there are going to be even less opportunities so it seems to me it will be pretty much a closed shop at the upper levels with no new faces allowed up unless they are known and liked by the right people.

Judges have to travel a lot to get the experience, sit in, practice judge and do the exam all in their own time and with their own money and I can see these new ideas as others have said being a case of if your face fits you will be ok, otherwise you will get nowhere.

(This should be at the beginning of the post but never mind!) another point for judges just starting - to get on the trainee list you will need a cv of what you have done plus the recomendations from the above mentioned people who have seen you judge or sat in and watched you judge, how are they supposed to see you judge when people on hee keep complaining about unlisted judges at unaffiliated shows
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Also, (from my experience at work) is it possible to be thought responsible for giving someone a reference if they turn out not to be as good at judging as they would seem from being a rider/trainer, and the person who gives the reference then themselves loses face with the committee or test judges? I know in the office you cannot give someone a bad reference - just wondered how that would translate to this scenario.

I will sit back and wait to see where this goes, but I do think BD need to decide what they are doing and not change it every year as there is no real continuity at the moment. I think the current system is much more fair, but perhaps add the mentor idea in, and allow the higher level riders/trainers the opportunity to do their testing at list 3 or 4 straight away if they want to

Hope it makes some sort of sense, wine has been consumed prior to typing!!
 
So, let me get this right!!

Senario,


You have just passed BHSAI, still "new" to dressage etc, but have a few friends in the "know", competing at Medium Advance because my horse "takes me around" (scores to prove say under 60%), not really educated on biomechanics, have my trainer ride my horse 5 days a week and I occasionally compete. What could that person achieve? Do they have to still go through the "old system" or could they write a CV, have someone do their exam and "pay" someone to tick the right boxes??

I only ask this because I do not know how this new system is going to work.? Any ideas? What exactly is the critera?
 
The person in the scenario you have given as an example would have to do the same as any other potential trainee judge.

They would have to submit a CV to BD stating their experience and training (dressage related) and have 2 referees who must be judges or trainers who have recognisable experience at the level the trainee is coming in at. (in your example that would be at the bottom ie List 6 or 5 only those who are either BHSI's, international accredited trainers or have competed regularly at PSG or above can come in higher)

If the judges committee accept the CV then they become an official trainee and will have 2 years in which to apply to take the practcal exam. This used to involve 2 examiners roving from car to car whilst the examinees were judging with their marks then being compared to the master judge who would be a List 1 or 2 judge. However it seems now that you will no longer have the examiners getting in your car, instead they will judge the class and just compare your sheets to theirs at the end. I realise that it was intimidating having an examiner in the back but really if you are confident and knowlegable enough to judge at the level then it shouldn't be a problem and the examiners saw how you interacted with your writer, how quickly you could sum up, how you coped if it all went pear shaped etc etc.

I presume a trainee will still have to do practise judging and a written exam (done at home) but haven't got the full details. Under the old system a trainee had to submit a form showing they had done a number of sitting ins, writing and practise judging as well as attending a regional seminar and I don't know if that will still be the case.

More details are available on the new judges website www.judgesnotebook.co.uk. You might find some info on there interesting Freestyler though it hasn't been up and running long so it's a bit limited at the mo.
 
Its not BHSAI, Its BHSI, so its the full qualification, still does not mean the candidate has done any dressage other than for the exam purposes.

They do still have to do a practice judging and a written exam in their own time.
 
BHSAI was used as an example! But I see where you are coming from ie. a BHSI could still not really have much experience in dressage as such, but if they had the right connections they could by-pass the beginning........ then again, who would want to be a Judge with little experience etc.. I know I would not! Hopefully all who go this route will be the genuine thing! Educated, knowledgeable, etc..........

Thanks Jlav I am going to have a good look at that site tonight!!
 
That site (www.judgesnotebook.co.uk) is my baby and I endevour to get as much stuff on there as possible but things delayed by getting permissions etc for articles.

I too am on the fence, and think it might turn into who you know rather than what you know. I think it may turn out to be a little exclusive, but we shall see
 
There is a real problem with the existing system taking so very long.

we use a wide panel of judges, and there are some on list 4 who have a far better understanding of dressage than some on list 1. Networking & having a face that fits did seem to move people forward in the old system, it may be worse in the new one.

The really good judges on lists 4 - 2 who are judging / teaching / riding every week are the ones who should be fast tracked, they may be the ones who are too busy for endless practice judging / ass-licking and so do not move forward.

With regard to fast tracking riders, great but they ride. If they have a commitment to riding / training then they will be hard to get, and as inexperienced judges may run late
 
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