New Livery - Windsucking Help!

Dizzleton

Dizzleton

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Hi guys,

It's been a while since I've written on here and now needing help again!

We have a small, quiet, very relaxed yard of 4 horses, including the new livery.

The new livery horse (and owner) are perfect for our yard and they fit into our routine nicely.

However, the only one downside is the new horse crib bites and has done most of his life.

I am now quite concerned the other horses on the yard may start to copy him, especially when they're in at night during winter.

Apparently he doesn't do it when they paint cribox on his door etc, but I don't want it to be an issue.

I'm hoping that because our yard is so chilled out and quiet that he won't do it, or at least not so much.

Should I be concerned?

Thanks!

Edit: Sorry he crib bites not windsucks!
 
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Personally I wouldn't be conserned we have a windsucker for two years now stabled with our 12 other ponies and horses ranging in ages from foals to 16 yrs old and no one has started copying her she even has a hole in her wall through to our best broodmare (it was for a previous box walker and we never filled it in. There has been nor problems she has gone to shows with all our ponies stayed on the lorry windsucking and no one has even thought about copying her
 
Another in agreement :)

Mine has cribbed most of his life nd has spent almost 2 yrs with OH's horse in a field and stabled etc and he has never copied neither has any other horse that has been close to him (been on 4 yards)
 
That's great thank you. I was just worried as my horse will be stabled and in the field with him 24/7 so I didn't want him to pick anything up.

Aside from cribox, is there anyway to stop him ruining the wood in the stables? The doors and window frames have stainless steel covering them, so that's not too much of an issue; however, the door makes a heck of a noise when he does it.. so I guess what I'm trying to say is how do I keep the yard peaceful?
 
if you don't want the stain of cribox on the door they make a clear liquid spray or we use on no bite a clear substance of similar texture to cribox
 
I find collars to be more stressful to the horse than anything, so I'd advise not to instruct the owner to do that, for a start (not saying you will but putting it out there).

I've always used the cribox (it's in a blue tub) that you paint on. It stinks but lasts forever!
Is there anything you could use as a sort of wedge, or perhaps cut down a piece of rubber matting for the inside of the door, to stop the banging? I've known people to top their doors with matting, so the horse is allowed to carry out its behaviour but without damaging itself or the wood. Again, I've also known people to tie a tire up so the horse can 'use it', so to speak. Basically if the horse is going to do it, it's the lesser of two evils. Apart from that, turn out as much as possible and perhaps mention to the owner about feeding a good pro-biotic supplement- I find it has decreased the frequency my two do it.
 
If he's actually windsucking and not just cribbing (chewing) then I'd highly recommend one of the Miracle Windsucking collars when in the box. It stopped my windsucker in his tracks! Just make sure he has adlib hay, and maybe suggest she has him treated for Ulcers?
 
As others have said I wouldn't worry about copying. We have a serious wind sucking ex racehorse on our yard and it will choose to windsuck on the field gate rather than graze and windsucks in stable but no other horses have ever copied.

You could try covering the top of the stable door with a length of large round plastic piping. You simply cut the pipe along it's length and fit it over then top of the door. It should be wide enough in diameter to prevent the horse getting his mouth around it.
 
Sealine said:
As others have said I wouldn't worry about copying. We have a serious wind sucking ex racehorse on our yard and it will choose to windsuck on the field gate rather than graze and windsucks in stable but no other horses have ever copied.

You could try covering the top of the stable door with a length of large round plastic piping. You simply cut the pipe along it's length and fit it over then top of the door. It should be wide enough in diameter to prevent the horse getting his mouth around it.
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I have a wind sucker/crib biter and I agree, no one has ever copied her and the plastic piping works to protect stable doors etc. She has worn a miracle collar when she was on another yard and it did work but I have never been a fan of them I do allow her to have an old gatepost out in the field and on the yard where she can do it. I think for her it had its roots in her youth as a race horse but now it is perhaps a habit as I am given to understand it releases endorphins, but there is plenty of debate on this

Always ensure they have forage, plenty of turn out and if the horse hasn't been treated for ulcers maybe try that, my mare had some gastroguard and this greatly reduced her crib/wind sucking behaviour but it never went completely.
 
Thanks everyone! I'll have a chat with the owner to see what we can do about the door banging etc :)

At the moment he's out 24/7 on his own (whilst he is in isolation) then he'll be out 24/7 with my horse till the bad weather sets in reducing his time outside to just 12 hours a day.

Has anyones horse that windsucked or cribbed stopped once it settled on a quiet yard?
 
My horse has reduced her wind sucking a lot over the time I've had her but she still does it occasionally, maybe others have had total success though?
 
Reduced - yes.

The key points were 24/7 turnout and treating for ulcers. She still cribbed if you gave a treat and after her hard feed, but only briefly.
 
I have a horse who cribs and windsucks and nothing has ever copied him- even my daughters youngster. We used to attach carpet padded with straw to the backs of door kickers doors, completely deadens the noise
 
My ex-race horse does it, was treated for ulcers when I first had him and scoped again recently (6 years later) and he has no signs of ulcers, the only time he doesn't think about cribbing is when he has grass, sadly is front teeth are dreadful (due to cribbing) so as soon as he starts struggling to eat it because it's to short, he gives up and cribs.
He has been on quiet yards, busy yards and out on grass 24/7 and nothing seems to help, we have tried supplements too and they haven't made any difference either.
My homebred has been with him since he was one (now 7) and has never shown any signs, neither has any other horse he has been out with.
He can do some damage to the wood work though so we tend to cover his favorite spots to stop that and let him get on with it. To me it's his only fault, so I leave him to it.
 
Lyle said:
If he's actually windsucking and not just cribbing (chewing) then I'd highly recommend one of the Miracle Windsucking collars when in the box. It stopped my windsucker in his tracks! Just make sure he has adlib hay, and maybe suggest she has him treated for Ulcers?
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I certainly do the last two things you said first and see if that makes a difference. I'm dubious about using a collar though - what good does it do for the horse?
 
SatsumaGirl said:
I have never, ever known it to be a copied behaviour.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20525045 The results here are interesting.

As the owner of a 12yo cribber and a 29yo windsucker, none of the others have ever copied.
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This. I had a windsucker once and none of mine ever copied her. I must admit I wouldn't have another one though as she destroyed our fencing and would do it on anything she could (including the horse trailer steel bars) even though she lived out. I've never ever heard of a horse copying it, I think in any case that another horse started doing it it was probably coinsidence and due to other factors (ie. ulcers / stress etc.).
 
Thanks everyone, it's been a great help! I've never dealt with any windsuckers / cribbers on a personal basis, so didn't really know what to do for the best!

And I know what you mean about the teeth Seaofdreams, poor thing only has gums on top!

Strange how a lot of the cases as stated on here as ex-racers - this livery is an ex-racer too..
 
My ex-racer was a cribber, to deal with it in the stable he would have his haynet tied in one corner and just about it I tied a rubber coated stall guard chain from one side to the other, he used to use this to crib on, it was rubber coated so didn’t damage his teeth, it didn’t damage the stable and being next to his hay stopped him pacing from hay to door.

No other horse ever copied him, it’s a stereotypical behaviour and not something they learn by copying, they have to be genetically prone it (his mother was a box walker) and even then it needs ‘something’ to trigger it.
 
I've had mine 2 years, hes stabled with foals, youngstock and older horses. Never been an issue. the copying thing is a myth stemming from horses stabled together all sucking but thats due to them all having same feed routine and lifestyle eg race yards are prone to housing suckers.
 
The research on stereotypies suggests that crib biting (horse grabs object then swallows) and wind sucking (horse swallows without needing to grasp anything) are a physiological response to high stomach acid; the horse needs saliva to buffer the acid.
As horses can't salivate without chewing (unlike dogs) they bite doors to do it, to reduce the stomach discomfort.
Humane treatments include antacids (treatment for ulcers), constant access to forage so the stomach isn't empty, reduced hard feed. And last, but not least, letting them crib on something that won't damage their teeth (carpet?, rubber car mats?).
A lot of racehorses do it because they have high concentrate diets, and the acid sloshes around on exercise. Foals weaned too early can also start. It isn't copied.
Hope this helps a bit - you sound like a sympathetic livery owner.
S :)
 
JennyConnor said:
Hi guys,

It's been a while since I've written on here and now needing help again!

We have a small, quiet, very relaxed yard of 4 horses, including the new livery.

The new livery horse (and owner) are perfect for our yard and they fit into our routine nicely.

However, the only one downside is the new horse crib bites and has done most of his life.

I am now quite concerned the other horses on the yard may start to copy him, especially when they're in at night during winter.

Apparently he doesn't do it when they paint cribox on his door etc, but I don't want it to be an issue.

I'm hoping that because our yard is so chilled out and quiet that he won't do it, or at least not so much.

Should I be concerned?

Thanks!

Edit: Sorry he crib bites not windsucks!
Click to expand...

I have 2 windsuckers at my yard who have windsucked for years, not one other horse has copied them.
 
I had a cribber and he did end up in a padded miracle collar at one point having gone through every permentation to stop it. I was originally of the mindset to leave him alone, but 2 horses I knew who also cribbed ended up with surgical colic. This led to a swift change of mind.

Here are a couple of observations from owning one for best part of 8 years.
1. Not one horse ever copied him
2. Interesting about the breeding. At one point I knew of 5 cribbers. All had come from a very VERY well know TB event stallion..
3. Scoped for ulcers. He had none.
4. Upping the forage massively helped. I redid his diet (he was competing) so he had to be eating forage most of the time. At one point I tried putting him on good quality oat straw so he never ever ran out and that made a significant difference.
5. He was an exceptionally unforgiving horse so I wonder now if my inability to "cure" him was also down to it becoming a habit. He had an ear infection, quickly sorted out, but having had drops stuck down his ear never let me bridle him properly again. I had to take the wretched bridle to pieces and put it in piecemeal every time I tacked up
6. Found a compromise in that he ended up pretty much living out with a post he would crib on after feed, but not for long.
 
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Luci07 said:
I had a cribber and he did end up in a padded miracle collar at one point having gone through every permentation to stop it. I was originally of the mindset to leave him alone, but 2 horses I knew who also cribbed ended up with surgical colic. This led to a swift change of mind.
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How do you know the cribbing led to the colic? Maybe the cribbing was due to digestive system problems and those problems also caused the colic.
 
fburton said:
I certainly do the last two things you said first and see if that makes a difference. I'm dubious about using a collar though - what good does it do for the horse?
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They can do plenty of damage to their teeth, so I tried to limit the time he spent wind sucking. With the collar on, he didn't wind suck, instead would eat his hay. I suppose it depends on the level of 'addiction', some horses will rather wind suck than eat. I wouldn't recommend putting a collar on unless you are treating for ulcers, as we know it's a response to the horse trying to find comfort.

I've also heard (although I don't have any evidence to support this!) that the 'gulping' can lead to air in the stomach, which can cause colic.
 
It is an old wives tale that windsucking is copied by other horses, any vet will tell you that it isn't. It is also widely believed that using a 'collar' to prevent them doing it can cause more stress to the horse than it actually prevents.
 
Lyle said:
They can do plenty of damage to their teeth, so I tried to limit the time he spent wind sucking. With the collar on, he didn't wind suck, instead would eat his hay. I suppose it depends on the level of 'addiction', some horses will rather wind suck than eat. I wouldn't recommend putting a collar on unless you are treating for ulcers, as we know it's a response to the horse trying to find comfort.
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Fair enough. I guess the teeth problem can be ameliorated to some extent by providing something softer for the horse to grab on to with his teeth - easier when the horse is stabled than living outside.

I've also heard (although I don't have any evidence to support this!) that the 'gulping' can lead to air in the stomach, which can cause colic.
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I thought this idea had fallen out of favour after fluoroscopic trials which showed that little or no air was actually swallowed - just moved around between pharynx and oesophagus.
 
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