New owner dilemma already!

[Kirstd33]

Hi! New owner and new to H&H forum! 44yrs young and a first time owner after a lifetime of riding on and off at riding schools and part loans/shares and I took ownership of a 14.2 LW cob x a month ago, 13 yrs old bought from a private family mother-daughter share home, bought him as a happy hacker as told he didn’t enjoy enjoy schooling so the daughter wanted something to progress on and jump. I rode him at the viewing, hacked out there locally and took him for a trot and short canter in an open field, no issues and seemed suitable so bought him. Fast forward on a month he’s golden out hacking at walk and trot, solo and in company, however I took him to a small local fun ride on Sunday and it was far from fun, he bucked (a lot and hefty) when I asked him for canter and whilst I didn’t come off my nerves were shot after the 8 miles. Took him in our grass school yesterday being ridden by a more experienced friend so I could observe and sure enough he was NOT happy being asked to even trot or canter and was bucking again particularly on his left rein where he was very stiff and with little bend. Should say we’ve had his teeth done, feet, saddle fitted correctly and were told he was up to date with physio with no issues identified. I will get a local equine chiro out to see him asap. Now already worrying if I’ve bitten off more than I want to chew, as was hoping for a relaxed happy hacker that I could take on some farm rides to do some gentle canters and pop some small jumps to build confidence. If you’ve got this far thanks and any advice greatly appreciated x

 

[Barton Bounty]

Its still very early on in your relationship, id keep persevering, consistency is the key. Also 8 miles is an awful lot for a lw cob ? Unless of course he is used to it

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would get the vet. He might well have hurt himself with his antics on the fun ride. Tbh, I think you were rather over ambitious taking him there when you hadn't cantered him on a hack

 

[Cortez]

Did you canter him or see him cantered when you went to view? Have you lunged him in canter?

 

[Kirstd33]

Thanks for the replies so far, yes I have cantered him in the field at home and he gave a small bunny hop into canter which I took as excitement but the bunny hops have progressed into proper head down, feet up bucks on the couple of occasion we’ve lunged him he starts off fine and then starts shooting forward and again throwing some shapes,

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would check the saddle again but if it persists I would get a vet out.

 

[AmyMay]

Saddle check is always a good idea.

But….. fun rides are exciting! I’ve always put a stronger bit in for them.

I doubt you’ve bitten off more than you can chew, just that you’re doing things that are a bit more exciting for your horse and you need to figure out a way of riding and enjoying them.

How fit is he?

 

[Kirstd33]

He’s hacking fit I would say certainly up to 5-6 miles regularly and on Sunday was hardly sweaty when we finished despite 8 miles of throwing some shapes and antics. Last night he just looked like he was struggling on the left rein and in pain and I guess I’m worried the bucking is a learnt behaviour he did to get out of working, once you’ve sorted a physical issue do you think the bucking can be sorted? I’m a fairly competent rider but wasn’t looking for a project or something difficult just a happy hacker at my age for some relaxing times

 

[lamlyn2012]

If the horse is averse to schooling I would ask why. In addition he is very stiff on one rein and bunny hops, bucks into canter. Did you have him vetted prior to purchase?
I would have a vet check to rule out pain related issues.

I wouldn't worry about the fun ride antics. Most get a bit lit up on fun rides. I much prefer to hire a farm ride with one or two other horses.

 

[dixie]

Fun rides aren't for every horse, they can tip them over the top, so don't worry about that too much.
You might have to build up to them. We usually box out and ride on our own but in different areas to get the horses used to going out and exploring.

Didi you ask them what he usually did in the school - as not liking schooling as opposed to bucking/evading are quite different.

 

[TPO]

Did you have a 5 stage vetting done before you bought him? Was anything highlighted in that?

Personally, I'd want a vet work up (& have a dental vet do teeth). Not "wanting" to school would have been a big red flag, even more so coupled with this behaviour in canter.

Nect steps would depend on what vet finds. Hopefully, it's nothing serious, so I'd then get a physio out. They will be able to give an exercise programme to help with anything that's found; be it ground/pole work or stretches and massages.

Then saddle fitter (also worth asking physio to have a look at saddle fit) and possibly bit fitter.

Meanwhile, if given the ok from the vet, I'd start doing a fair bit of groundwork (actual groundwork, not lunging). I'm not a fan of his, but Warwick Schiller has a tonne of free resources on YouTube and his website.

I wouldn't want to be riding anything that isn't balanced/trained enough to do transitions on the ground. If someone can't control the feet in a halt and walk on the ground I don't fancy their chances onboard at faster gaits.

Good luck. You sound like you have your head screwed on

 

[Kirstd33]

Unfortunately I didn’t have him vetted no, I paid >2k for him but rookie error I now realise and feel very foolish indeed. They said he just didn’t enjoy it and preferred hacking out, which is 90% of what I want to do so didnt think it would be an issue but I would like to be able to have a steady canter without fear of being bucked off, at 44. I feel really stupid now and like it was all a mistake. He’s a sweet pony to handle, friendly and turns out and stables happily but may be too much for me

 

[TPO]

Unfortunately I didn’t have him vetted no, I paid >2k for him but rookie error I now realise and feel very foolish indeed. They said he just didn’t enjoy it and preferred hacking out, which is 90% of what I want to do so didnt think it would be an issue but I would like to be able to have a steady canter without fear of being bucked off, at 44. I feel really stupid now and like it was all a mistake. He’s a sweet pony to handle, friendly and turns out and stables happily but may be too much for me

Meh, we've all made mistakes and bad calls. Just got to deal with what's in front of you right now.

I'd be involving an equine vet at this stage for a work up/vet check and making them aware of the ridden issues. If you're comfortable saying what area you're in I'm sure there will be posters able to recommend equine vets if you don't already have one.

 

[Kirstd33]

Wrong symbol, less than £2k paid

 

[TheMule]

Fun rides are often stressful situations for horses so I wouldn’t necessarily hold that against him. You've also asked him to do significantly more work than he is used to and ridden him the next day when he's bound to be muscle sore. Give him a week off and then get booked in with the vet if he's still not right

 

[Red-1]

Horse prices have dropped slightly, but the fact that he was under 2K would be something of a red flag for me. Sound horses that are also sane are simply more than that right now. But, that is done, so for the future...

Is he in the same tack as he was, as in did you buy the exact same tack as you rode him in where you walked/trotted/cantered in a field with no issues? If not, I would have someone out to check the tack.

You wanted a safe hack, and he was safe when tried and also for the first ride at home. You say his behaviour has got worse. This could be tack or it could be the way he is ridden, so I think I would get a riding instructor out as a next step. It is surprisingly easy to let little habits slip, a neighbour had one that went from easy to abysmal to hack in one week, there was nothing wrong with the horse it was a case of the pressure being removed when the horse did the wrong thing and the horse soon learned to turn and run for home! Once they had the help of a trainer, the horse also soon reverted to a nice hack. For the trainer, I would want one who will actually ride as opposed to sit on the sidelines. I think I would give it a week though, in case he has hurt something with the antics.

If you or the trainer think that there is a physical issue, then I would get the vet for a full exam. I would include flexions, lungeing etc, like a 5 stage vetting but without the certificate.

If he is deemed sound, apart from the fun ride and a gradual decline in canter, which could be rider induced, it sounds like he is everything else he was sold as. Did they say he has ever done fun rides before?

I've had my horse 2 years now, he is fab, I've had a lot of fun. But, I want to do a couple of fun rides but know that to do so, he would need a nanny initially. This is because he is kept at a private place that only has one other horse and usually he hacks alone. Before the beach ride in my avatar, I made an effort to ride with others a few times, so we were cantering alongside. He learned to canter behind someone last summer, and was a good boy on the beach, but has only cantered with others twice since. He does XC schooling with others around on a clinic and is fine, but this is different to a gang all going in the same direction, especially when they also overtake. If I found a suitable nanny, we would do some rides with each other to refresh cantering behind, being overtaken, splitting up etc. Only then would I do the actual fun ride with the nanny. He is exceptionally well mannered but just hasn't got all of the tools and experience yet to cope at a fun ride alone.

My other horse had never done school work before I had him, he'd just hacked. It took months to get him to buy into the idea of circles etc. He is sound, just didn't see the point. He came round with some positive reinforcement (celery in his case) but the right trainer could help with that.

Once basic schooling is in place, I would do a program of work before taking to another fun ride, and do the work and then go with a nanny.

Good luck!

 

[Glitter's fun]

Unfortunately I didn’t have him vetted no, I paid >2k for him but rookie error I now realise and feel very foolish indeed. They said he just didn’t enjoy it and preferred hacking out, which is 90% of what I want to do so didnt think it would be an issue but I would like to be able to have a steady canter without fear of being bucked off, at 44. I feel really stupid now and like it was all a mistake. He’s a sweet pony to handle, friendly and turns out and stables happily but may be too much for me

Don't beat yourself up. It happens all the time & to some very knowledgeable people.

 

[TPO]

Also, not in place of vet involvement, but what is he eating now? Had there been any chances from what the sellers fed and/or do you have good grass compared to sellers?

Sugars and calories (& other ingredients) can sometimes cause even the calmest horse to lose their marbles slightly

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I think the fact the previous owners have said he doesn't like schooling and he was so cheap I would be inclined to just get the vet, I bet they knew something wasn't right you seriously can't trust anyone these days

 

[Cortez]

I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet, you have had him no time at all and his whole world is different. Before launching yourself at the vets I would ask a thoroughly experienced riding instructor or pro trainer to have a look and see what they say.

 

[AmyMay]

I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet, you have had him no time at all and his whole world is different. Before launching yourself at the vets I would ask a thoroughly experienced riding instructor or pro trainer to have a look and see what they say.

I do agree. However as the horse wasn’t vetted I would be inclined to get the vet out for a once over (almost like a post purchase 2* vetting).

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would want a vet opinion before messing about with chiro/physio etc and it is often easier to get a vet than a saddle fitter

 

[Kirstd33]

Thanks everyone and I appreciate everyone opinion I really do, I can’t have any beef with his previous owners as they didn’t actually mis-sell him or pull any wool over any eyes I rode him, bought him as seen/tried and feel responsible for not delving enough and probing further about the schooling issues. To answer the feed question he isn’t on any hard feed but yes his grazing looked poor and comparatively we have good grass (which I am limiting) and he had straw in a hay net and I give him approx 3kg hay when I bring him in for the day to limit his grass. He is still Getting used to the other liveries then next week he will go out onto a track grazing system.
To hack up the lanes in walk and trot he is absolutely perfect and you would never know there is more going on, it’s just the odd canter/the funride on Sunday/odd schooling that has revealed these potential issues. I think I have a plan to get a physio out to check his back and musculature then a vet to identify any potentially pain causing issues, then a freelance riding instructor to see if anything can be done.
Anymore advice gratefully received, especially any individual stories giving me hope!

 

[AmyMay]

I think I have a plan to get a physio out to check his back and musculature then a vet to identify any potentially pain causing issues, then a freelance riding instructor to see if anything can be done.
Anymore advice gratefully received, especially any individual stories giving me hope!

Vet first (always), physio after. Let us know how it all goes xx

 

[sbloom]

I would check the saddle again but if it persists I would get a vet out.

Yep, some of this is classic saddle related stuff.

Unfortunately I didn’t have him vetted no, I paid >2k for him but rookie error I now realise and feel very foolish indeed. They said he just didn’t enjoy it and preferred hacking out, which is 90% of what I want to do so didnt think it would be an issue but I would like to be able to have a steady canter without fear of being bucked off, at 44. I feel really stupid now and like it was all a mistake. He’s a sweet pony to handle, friendly and turns out and stables happily but may be too much for me

Don't panic for sure, there is SO much help around, in person and online that you are far from having to face that just yet.

Fun rides are often stressful situations for horses so I wouldn’t necessarily hold that against him. You've also asked him to do significantly more work than he is used to and ridden him the next day when he's bound to be muscle sore. Give him a week off and then get booked in with the vet if he's still not right

Yep, it's like people who go to camp and ride twice a day for more than an hour each time and wonder why their saddle doesn't fit after 3 days and their horse is sore. He'll still be a bit sore if it was too much (or the saddle was fractionally "off" and it only shows on a longer rider) so have the vet see him and make a plan from there.

 

[Patterdale]

You need the vet. Without meaning to sound doom and gloom, horses who ‘don’t enjoy schooling’ usually translates into ‘horse bucks and naps in school.’

And the top reason they ‘don’t enjoy’ schooling is because they are in pain. So they are offloaded cheap to a hacking home.

I really don’t want to upset you. But this is possibly the situation you are in, and now you’re here it’s best to face it.

The first and most important thing you need to do is get a good *equine* vet to see him. Get the vetting you didn’t get at purchase, and see what you find.

Do this before you throw ANY good money after bad at saddle pads, physios, trainers, dentists etc.

 

[ycbm]

Hi and welcome to the forum. I'm sorry your first bash at horse owning is throwing issues at you.

I agree with everyone calling for a vet. The thing that stands out for me is not bucking on a fun ride, which is, after hunting, probably the most exciting thing you can ask of a horse. It's the bunny hop into canter. I've never seen bunny hopping* or had a horse which did it without there being an underlying issue. It's always, in my 50+ years of multiple horse owning experience, caused by a physical issue and not by high spirits.

And whilst it could be the saddle, his history suggests that it isn't, and I sadly agree with Patterdale that your first port of call should be straight to a vet workup as that is likely to save you money and stress in the long term.

I hope the vet finds something simple and treatable and that next year the old owners watch in wonder as he happily canters a figure of 8 with a flying change in the middle!



* I'm not talking about a horse who hops up and down on the spot because it wants to go and the rider is holding it up. I'm talking about an inability to split the hind legs on the first and possibly subsequent strides into canter, which is what appears to be being described here.
.

 

[Spotherisk]

OP don’t panic, he sounds like a good horse who just needs some help. Fingers crossed it’s all doable.

 

[Clodagh]

Agree with ycbm. Get the vet out and identify the problem, physio and chiro have their place but not when you don’t know what is wrong.
Big bucking from an older horse is, imo, almost certainly pain and not excitement.