New Pony Bolts

[Paddysgirl1]

After searching for nearly a year for a hacking buddy, I thought I had found a suitable pony last month. In the overheated market of the past couple of years, we actually managed two viewings on this occasion. The second viewing was with a very experienced horsey friend who runs the small livery where I am now keeping him and I also had him 5 stage vetted at which I was present.

We really liked him and, despite being only 6, we could see no temperament issues as he was very calm and appeared to be a very genuine character, especially the story was that as he had been used in an established riding school and was on loan to a young girl who rode there. I rode him a couple of times in the school and for a short hack out and had no concerns.

He appeared to settle very well at the livery where I've kept him for a couple of weeks and took absolutely everything in his stride. I had been loaned a saddle by the seller until I could get the saddle fitters out, but I still needed to purchase a suitable girth and stirrup/leathers and so it therefore took a week until I could ride him. He came with his own bridle and is snaffle mouthed. In the intervening time, I hand walked and lunged him. When I could ride him, my livery owner friend was to come out with me for a short hack. Firstly, it was difficult to get him to stand near the mounting block and when I mounted up after a few strides he then bolted away from my friend's pony at great speed for absolutely no reason.

We then decided not to hack out and took him into the livery's outdoor school where he bolted again for a short distance. At this point I dismounted as I had no wish to have an accident.

My confidence is now in pieces as I'm not a younger rider and wondered if anyone had any observations/ideas? We are trying to get his back checked and wonder also if the loan saddle causes him discomfort? When I lunged him, he worked in a pleasing outline, but as soon as I managed to mount up, he felt like a concertina and totally different.

Any observations appreciated as I didn't envisage buying a a field ornament but as the moment am wondering how I can summon up the courage to get on his back again - or even if this is a good idea as I don't want to get injured. Many thanks in advance.

 

[Gloi]

It does sound if that saddle is hurting him.
Is there a confident younger person willing to pop on him bareback once you have lunged him to see how he reacts, but I wouldn't use that saddle again and wait until you find one that fits. Will your YO help you?

 

[paddy555]

was the saddle you loaned the one you rode in when you tried him?
was he sold by a dealer? was he their horse or were they selling for the owner. are you hoping to return him?
what happens if you stand him at the mounting block with a bridle,no saddle. Can you lean over him, lay over him with some weight on him, stroke him all over his back, rump, neck etc. Is he calm about it all?

I would go through every tiny step slowly of the above to see where there is resistance. How does your experienced horsey friend see his behaviour? Have they tried him?

If you got as far as him being happy leaning over him at the mounting block then I would lunge with a dummy laid over him. What does he do? I would expect him to be perfectly calm. (for a dummy I stuff men's overalls)

 

[Paddysgirl1]

It does sound if that saddle is hurting him.
Is there a confident younger person willing to pop on him bareback once you have lunged him to see how he reacts, but I wouldn't use that saddle again and wait until you find one that fits. Will your YO help you?

It does sound if that saddle is hurting him.
Is there a confident younger person willing to pop on him bareback once you have lunged him to see how he reacts, but I wouldn't use that saddle again and wait until you find one that fits. Will your YO help you?

Many thanks for the advice Gloi. As you say, the saddle may well be the issue.

 

[Paddysgirl1]

was the saddle you loaned the one you rode in when you tried him?
was he sold by a dealer? was he their horse or were they selling for the owner. are you hoping to return him?
what happens if you stand him at the mounting block with a bridle,no saddle. Can you lean over him, lay over him with some weight on him, stroke him all over his back, rump, neck etc. Is he calm about it all?

I would go through every tiny step slowly of the above to see where there is resistance. How does your experienced horsey friend see his behaviour? Have they tried him?

If you got as far as him being happy leaning over him at the mounting block then I would lunge with a dummy laid over him. What does he do? I would expect him to be perfectly calm. (for a dummy I stuff men's overalls)

He was sold by a reputable riding school as being unsuitable for what they wanted him to do as he hadn't taken to RDA ridden work. My knowledegable friend eventually managed to get him to stand at the mounting block without swinging his back end out and she also gradually leant over him with some weight, although he wasn't too keen to begin with and showed some slight signs of resistance. My experienced horsey livery owner friend was very surprised by his behaviour as he is generally so calm. Many thanks for the feedback and ideas for further investigation.

 

[Paddysgirl1]

was the saddle you loaned the one you rode in when you tried him?
was he sold by a dealer? was he their horse or were they selling for the owner. are you hoping to return him?
what happens if you stand him at the mounting block with a bridle,no saddle. Can you lean over him, lay over him with some weight on him, stroke him all over his back, rump, neck etc. Is he calm about it all?

I would go through every tiny step slowly of the above to see where there is resistance. How does your experienced horsey friend see his behaviour? Have they tried him?

If you got as far as him being happy leaning over him at the mounting block then I would lunge with a dummy laid over him. What does he do? I would expect him to be perfectly calm. (for a dummy I stuff men's overalls)

Sorry Paddy555, I should have added that, as far as I can tell, the saddle was the one I rode him in prior to buying him.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

He’s not a new forest type pony beginning with T is he? Sounds very similar to a pony I bought that had big claims of being used at a riding school and sold to me as a dope on a rope. He ended up going back, I’m convinced he had kissing spines or similar.

 

[Sandstone1]

He needs his back and saddle checking before hes ridden again as a start. It sounds like pain.

 

[Red-1]

It would be a red flag for me that he isn't suitable as a RDA horse. Why was that? What did he do that was unsuitable? (Swing away from the mounting block? Shoot forwards?).

I would be asking some questions, including weather the saddle was the one used at trial.

Some riding school horses are tricky when taken away. I borrowed a Police Horse once, for a course for novices that I was running. I knew the horse, had seen him many times when assessing at the other Police Force. I knew he was steady and reliable, hence wanting to borrow him.

When he first came to us, same tack, he was awful! Very naughty!

Within a week, with consistent, experienced handling, he was back in the groove and was a gem. Held the novices' hands and got them through their course.

We returned him after 10 weeks, he did well back at home, and was finally, some years later, loaned out for a well earned retirement. I had a wry smile when I found that the (less experienced) new home had returned him for being very naughty!

Anyway, I digress, there is a red flag, |I would ask questions, he may well settle, but, if not, as a riding school I believe they still count as a business sale so you can return him as unsuitable, if he doesn't suit.

 

[sbloom]

With a bit of luck it's just saddle and you can take a TON of time and get him not only to stand at the mounting block but line himself up and get him to wait until you say walk off (as a saddle fitter I see tons of horses where this has never been established, it makes life so much easier). I would put in writing to the seller that there could be an issue, I'm not knowledgeable on the law in this area but in saddles you have 14 days to change your mind and must communicate with the seller immediately if you think there's a problem.

Recommended/trusted saddle fitter and bodyworker, and if necessary someone who can help you on the ground to get him onside and comfortable with what you want to do with him. Horses lose confidence more easily than we realise.

Oh and shooting off a short distance isn't bolting, it's a scoot/running off, yes a big issue but not as big an issue as bolting.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Many years ago I went to a local very well respected dealer to look for a pony to bring on. I couldn't ride at the time as couldn't get a boot on so my sister came along to do the riding. We tried two, bought the first one but the second was a very nice little palomino mare. My sister got on and tried to ride her but the pony just took off running blind. Did this again so my sister got off. We strongly suspected there was something in the saddle that was upsetting her. Back then (70's) saddles were whatever was to hand and there was something wrong with this one. The dealer was really upset about it, he was a friend and a very decent bloke who always had good stock.

 

[Cortez]

When you have had his saddle and back checked I would suggest having a trainer ride him a few times before getting some lessons on him.

 

[Coblover63]

In the meantime, I would definitely do some ground work with him, teaching him to stand still and quietly at the mounting block. I've had a few MB fidgets and I've taught them all to stand using treats. Being able to mount, check your girth, maybe put some gloves on, etc with a horse that stands patiently is a paramount for me so the "price" of a treat is worth it in my eyes. My current cob mare picked it up very quickly as a 6yo.

I start with teaching them to bend their head round to the offside for a treat, th progress to leaning over them at the mounting block so that they are still bending to the offside. It stops them stepping away from the block. (This is a very condensed version to give you the idea! ?)

 

[Wishfilly]

What's he actually doing when you describe him as "bolting"? If he's really running off with you in a dangerous way, do you want to persevere with this? As others have said, a riding school is a business sale, so you do have rights in terms of returning him for a refund if you wish.

As others have said, definitely get the saddle and pony's back checked. If you've changed the style of girth, it may also be worth looking at that as well, in case it's somehow pinching or causing some sort of irritation?

I agree that if he's come from a riding school environment, he may not settle quickly in a different type of home.

I'd definitely want the sellers to explain exactly why he's "unsuitable for RDA".

 

[Starzaan]

This doesn’t sound at all like bolting. Bolting is a horse running in a blind panic with no sense of self preservation. In all my years running big yards and riding tricky horse I have sat on two bolters. One ran into a building and snapped his neck, and the other ran into a stock fence and snapped his leg.
So, happily, it doesn't sound at all like this horse is bolting. I would agree with all other posters that say this sounds like pain. It sounds like he is running off with you a little to get away from pain. I wouldn't sit on him again until you have had his back looked at, and a saddle properly fitted to him. Remember saddles should be checked at least every six months, more often if the horse changes shape.
When my big lad is coming into work after a holiday he has to have his saddle adjusted every two weeks as he changes shape so quickly, and absolutely will NOT tolerate an ill fitting saddle.

ETA - I would also never recommend inexperienced or novice owners buy from a riding school. People seem to forget that riding school horses are worked far more than the vast majority of privately owned horses, and (in good riding schools) are schooled regularly by professionals to keep them working well. When I was managing a big riding school our horses were in a strict routine, worked around 3 hours per day, and were schooled and hacked by staff at least twice a week. Almost none of the 89 we had would have been suitable for private homes. Three of them maybe. So it's worth reminding yourself that this is a HUGE change of lifestyle for him, it will take time.

 

[Paddysgirl1]

He needs his back and saddle checking before hes ridden again as a start. It sounds like pain.

Thanks for the advice Sandstone1 - I've had the back lady to him now and we have the saddle fitter coming in a week's time. Fingers crossed.

 

[Paddysgirl1]

This doesn’t sound at all like bolting. Bolting is a horse running in a blind panic with no sense of self preservation. In all my years running big yards and riding tricky horse I have sat on two bolters. One ran into a building and snapped his neck, and the other ran into a stock fence and snapped his leg.
So, happily, it doesn't sound at all like this horse is bolting. I would agree with all other posters that say this sounds like pain. It sounds like he is running off with you a little to get away from pain. I wouldn't sit on him again until you have had his back looked at, and a saddle properly fitted to him. Remember saddles should be checked at least every six months, more often if the horse changes shape.
When my big lad is coming into work after a holiday he has to have his saddle adjusted every two weeks as he changes shape so quickly, and absolutely will NOT tolerate an ill fitting saddle.

ETA - I would also never recommend inexperienced or novice owners buy from a riding school. People seem to forget that riding school horses are worked far more than the vast majority of privately owned horses, and (in good riding schools) are schooled regularly by professionals to keep them working well. When I was managing a big riding school our horses were in a strict routine, worked around 3 hours per day, and were schooled and hacked by staff at least twice a week. Almost none of the 89 we had would have been suitable for private homes. Three of them maybe. So it's worth reminding yourself that this is a HUGE change of lifestyle for him, it will take time.

Many thanks for the feedback and advice Starzaan. I've had the back lady to him now and she thought his back was sore - probably due to the ill fitting loan saddle I had been loaned by the riding school, until I get one fitted. I am walking him on tracks and lunging him until the saddle fitter's been in a week or so's time. Fingers crossed and thanks again.

He’s not a new forest type pony beginning with T is he? Sounds very similar to a pony I bought that had big claims of being used at a riding school and sold to me as a dope on a rope. He ended up going back, I’m convinced he had kissing spines or similar.

No, he isn't a New Forest type, so hopefully we can get to the bottom of his issue.

 

[Paddysgirl1]

It would be a red flag for me that he isn't suitable as a RDA horse. Why was that? What did he do that was unsuitable? (Swing away from the mounting block? Shoot forwards?).

I would be asking some questions, including weather the saddle was the one used at trial.

Some riding school horses are tricky when taken away. I borrowed a Police Horse once, for a course for novices that I was running. I knew the horse, had seen him many times when assessing at the other Police Force. I knew he was steady and reliable, hence wanting to borrow him.

When he first came to us, same tack, he was awful! Very naughty!

Within a week, with consistent, experienced handling, he was back in the groove and was a gem. Held the novices' hands and got them through their course.

We returned him after 10 weeks, he did well back at home, and was finally, some years later, loaned out for a well earned retirement. I had a wry smile when I found that the (less experienced) new home had returned him for being very naughty!

Anyway, I digress, there is a red flag, |I would ask questions, he may well settle, but, if not, as a riding school I believe they still count as a business sale so you can return him as unsuitable, if he doesn't suit.

 

[Paddysgirl1]

Thanks for responding to my plea for help. The back lady looked at him last week and said he had a sore back - may be due to the loan saddle from the riding school I bought him from? I would have asked more questions of the riding school (BHS/ABRS/RDA approved), but the owner was uncommunicative during the sale process - busy yard etc etc. I was told that he was unhappy with unbalanced, sometimes loud RDA clients and thought this was plausible as he's only 6. The saddle fitter is coming in the next week or so, so we can see how that goes. In the meantime, I'm walking him on local tracks and lunging when I can - hopefully the situation will improve as he seems well settled in every other way.