new pony, new member, laminitis.

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ollski

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Hi all, just bought my daughter a second pony as her other has turned into a bit of a behavioral nightmare though that may be the topic of a different post.
We bought the pony as unfit and with a bit of weight to lose and had been bringing her back to fitness with 30 minutes a day of walking around the menage.
On the 13th day of ownership my daughter brought her to the grooming area and noticed her standing in a laminitic stance, we called the vet straight in who diagnosed her with moderate laminitis. She diagnosed stable rest but we tried for 2 days and our mare hated it damaging her legs trying to jump through the window and burning up and steaming from getting stressed.
With the vets ok we made a bare paddock 20ft2 and put her out with the others which has calmed her down immensely. We are feeding her 2 x 2kg of 12hr soaked hay and a couple of small bowls of chaff (sugar & nutrient free) with her bute, garlic granules, magnesium powder and possibly vits/mins supplement (lami suitable).

My main concern now is what improvements should I see in her and how quickly?, she is on 1 bute sachet a day now as the vet wants to see her without pain relief, but after I gave her the dose this morning she was still stepping from one front foot to the other about every minute or so, she is very high crested and it is still fairly solid although her weight has dropped nicely in the week since we started her restricted diet. I am just concerned that the very small amount of grass she may still be able to find in the paddock could still cause more problems.

Although we insured her the day we bought her with petplan and had a vetcheck 2 days prior, petplan have absolutely refused to help at all with either this bout of laminitis or any future reoccurance as it was 13 days into the 14 day exclusion so is now classed as pre-exsisting, hence I need as much help from you experienced guys as I can get.

Many thanks.
 
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When my mare had lami one of the things that my vet said was very important was supporting the foot through a deep shavings bed. I'm not surprised your pony is still sore if she's on a bare (hard?) paddock and her feet haven't had support. How long has it been since the attack? I would get the vet back out and maybe try and find a different way of resting her - can you put some shavings down in her enclosure and make it smaller?
 
My mare looked more comfortable once on the bute, but wasnt happy until after about 2 weeks of box rest/diet/painkillers and took her even longer to recover completely.

It takes time and a lifelong management change!
 
AshTay said:
When my mare had lami one of the things that my vet said was very important was supporting the foot through a deep shavings bed. I'm not surprised your pony is still sore if she's on a bare (hard?) paddock and her feet haven't had support. How long has it been since the attack? I would get the vet back out and maybe try and find a different way of resting her - can you put some shavings down in her enclosure and make it smaller?
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She has got frog supports which we are checking twice a day, I have got quite a bit of hay down but she eats it!, I fear shavings may blow away where it is.
 
I really feel for you, almost the same happened to me over 2 years ago, bought my daughters pony, vetted as fat and needing feet trimmed but passed vetting. the day after we moved her to us she came down with a bad attack. vet had a real go saying how cruel we were (not a vet I knew and certainly wouldn't use again but that's another story, I'd had her less than 24 hours and certainly didn't create the lami!). we do think the stress off moving along side her weight was a big contributer.
she had some strapping on her hooves (think he just used duck tape or something) or you can get frog supports which can really help. she recovered from the initial attack very quickly with danilon. was fed soaked hay only for a while and then lami light for the vits and hoof supplement and magnesium.
I'd say in terms of comfort she recovered within 2 weeks and there was a significant difference in a few days. the reason for the longer box rest or restrictions on turn out were due to the on going damage that can occur shortly after an attack.
the long term issues we had were, abseses on and off for months, she then went lame about 5- 6 months after, we had xrays and her pedal bone was fine but she had separation and so it was painful and her hoof was crumbly (though u couldn't yet see it) she had little shoes put on (didn't need heart bars) and had the toe of her hoof shortened and she recovered really well from there on in.
I got 70kg of fat pony weight off her that summer and have never allowed her to out it back on. 2 years down the line she still has feed suitable for laminitis prone ponies (though not lami light any more), we have never had a repeat attack, her hay is steamed not soaked so still has the calories in it and she can go out 24/7 in summer, has been on grass all summer/spring/autumn, I just don't let her get overweight. I'm not saying this will be the case for you but a move of ownership can create a stress trigger (we've moved yards twice since and then moved to our own place and she was never stressed again, it must have been new owners as well as place).
all the best with your pony, although being out is not ideal its better than her coming to more harm stabled.

oh and I had the same issue with insurance, sods law!
 
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No sorry, soaked hay....I've been trying to spread it a little to stop her trying for the little grass she can find and to hopefully cushion her feet a little.

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Sorry op, I wouldn't say that us a bare paddock at all

She really does need to be on a deep shavings bed. If she isn't coping with being stabled, ask the vet for Sedalin/acp and keep her lightly sedated for at least a few days.

Good luck :)
 
Get her in a stable if you can on a deep bedding. Shavings better as she can't eat them.

If you can't get her inside, is there a wall or something you can use to build a bed against? A deep bed will help relieve the pressure and should make her a little bit comfier.
 
Please, please get her back in a stable - for her sake! Can you borrow someone else's stable? Where she can see more/can't hurt herself?
My mare had to be on box rest with a full shavings bed for 2 months when she came down with lami last year. There is a reason for this. The laminae that are affected in the hoof are what connects the pedal bone inside the hoof to the hoof wall. They are millions of small strands of tissue that work together to suspend & support the pedal bone. With laminitis, these swell, become sore & detach, so they are no longer holding the pedal bone in place. It can rotate & in worst cases can drop & pierce through the frog - which may lead to being PTS. The laminae only reattach when the laminitis has been treated & only reattach on new hoof growth, so it will take a year for full regrowth of fully attached laminae. While your mare is walking unsupported in that paddock, you are furthering the damage because of the gap (however small you think it may be) between the level where the hoof wall stands on the floor & the frog. The gap between the frog & the floor will mean that with every step your mare takes, the pedal bone will be able to move around if the laminae have detached. This could detach more laminae & allow the pedal bone to rotate & drop (if it hasn't already rotated). The reason you are supposed to box rest on full shavings beds is that the shavings fill in the gap, supporting the frog, reducing the movement & the damage. You literally have to cover the whole stable with shavings.
Laminitis is a lot more complicated than people think. I only learned so much when my girl came down with it & I was shocked.
Please get her stabled, or on a sand paddock. She needs to stand on something that will fully mold to the bottoms of her hooves - even straw isn't good enough as it will not provide enough support.
The road to recovery will be a long one, but it's the only way. Trying to cut corners will only cause more problems further down the line. My girl hated being stuck in for 2 months & I had to stable my other mare overnight because if they were apart for too long, she stopped eating altogether. But it was worth it. She's back out in the field now & just coming back into work - but she still has supporting shoes on.
Please do the right thing, she needs you xxx
 
Have you had her tested for cushings? That might also be an issue which may mean that you find it harder to get the laminitis under control.
Can't comment on whether she should be in or out as presumably you have had the vet's approval for your set-up and if she has frog supports that should be helping in the way that deep sawdust would? Not sure you'd want her to have lots of space to walk about in though.
 
How big is the pony and how much does she currently weigh? A side on, unrugged pic would be handy.

re the size of the pen is it 20ft x 20ft? (can't imagine it being 20 square feet i.e. 4ft by 5ft as that is tiny!) if so, this is still quite big. I'd make it a maximum of 12ft by 12ft and FILL it with cheap shavings or if you can get them, some bark chippings (try local tree surgeons) to stop shavings blowing away, you could wet the first few layers that you put down...
or get some gravel instead...

Hay shoul be be strictly weighed to 1.5% of her bodyweight and Soaked well (which I know you are doing)

What chaff is she on?

You do need to be patient though. It is very early days...
 
Thanks for all the advice guys, we have had an offer from our fantastic local riding school to take her in and stall her with some other ponies in 9 inches of shavings until she is better, she'll be in the reception area so fussed and monitored 12 hours a day. I think we will take up the generous offer.
 
ollski said:
Thanks for all the advice guys, we have had an offer from our fantastic local riding school to take her in and stall her with some other ponies in 9 inches of shavings until she is better, she'll be in the reception area so fussed and monitored 12 hours a day. I think we will take up the generous offer.
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Oh that's wonderful.
 
ollski said:
Thanks for all the advice guys, we have had an offer from our fantastic local riding school to take her in and stall her with some other ponies in 9 inches of shavings until she is better, she'll be in the reception area so fussed and monitored 12 hours a day. I think we will take up the generous offer.
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That sounds ideal! Lots of fuss and attention but STRICTLY NO TREATS!...
 
Can't offer advice but feel for you, nasty situation and you are doing your best to cope, well done! Doesn't sound like your vet had been much help, you need good strong professionals around you in these cases who can give strong instruction, personally I would find another vet.

The riding school offer is just fabulous how nice of them sounds perfect.

Do wish you the best of luck!
 
That is a FANTASTIC offer, sounds brilliant! I'd be biting their hand off ;) I really hope your little girl feels better soon :) And I agree with PollyP99, finding another vet sounds like a good idea. Good luck & keep us posted? :)
 
That's great news re the move! I was just about to say your bare paddock has more grass than my most grassy field at the moment!!
 
I disagree with everyone on here saying to put her back in a stable. Although is sounds like hopefully your pony is happy being stabled at the new place so thats fine. But people shouldn't be so quick to say box rest - some ponies absolutely hate it (especially if they're not used to it). My very first pony got serious laminitis (even though was always kept slim), we put him on box rest as advised but he got very depressed with it and dropped weight dramatically. So we decided instead to gate off an area (which was hardcore with a layer of dirt over the top) right outside his stable and left the door open so he could be on the soft bedding in the stable or stand outside, he was so much happier. So always think of the mental part, it helps with recovery IMO. Hope your pony gets over it quickly OP, looks like a cutie!
 
1. It is not necessary to soak hay for more than 20-30 minutes, there is evidence to show that soaking hay for longer is actually just as bad (can't remember which article it was now)
2. If the chaff is alfalfa, stop feeding it.
3. Cut out the garlic, there's no proof it's good for horses and more proof that it can be harmful in the long run
4. Try adding a tablespoon full of salt to the feed
5. Increase the magnesium oxide, if she starts getting runny poos then cut back
6. Unless you have done a forage analysis and know exactly which vitamins and minerals are lacking in your grazing and hay, it's pointless to give a vitamin and mineral supplement as you are just as likely to overdose and cause problems
 
2 weeks into her stabling and the vet says she is ok to begin walking. We thought she deserved a bit of the sunshine we are all enjoying too so brought her out for a bit of a feed today and will start her waliking round the arena on saturday.:)
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