New Rule clarification – Newcomers/1.10m

[dieseldog]

BSJA have tried to make it clearer what is happening with the New/1.10 classes - so now we all know

http://www.bsja.co.uk/news.html?newsID=744

From 1st April 2007 the combined Newcomers/1.10m Open is only permitted in a pure Progressive schedule. It has been necessary to implement this change due to complaints being received that, in the combined Newcomers/1.10m, the Newcomer horses are disadvantaged with the Open horses overwhelmingly winning the prize money. This is affecting the grading of Newcomer horses and it has, therefore, become apparent that they need their own class.

If you are running Progressive/Advanced one of the following alternatives can be used.

The 1.10m Open may be scheduled to run either before or after the Newcomers. Both these classes to run consecutively (one after another) with one course walk and the prize givings for both classes at the end of the second class.

For example: Class 4 & 5 will be run consecutively (one after another). Horses can compete in both classes. There will be only one course walk for both classes (before class 4), and prize givings for both classes will take place after class 5.

Class 4 Petplan Equine Newcomers Rule 312 Table A7 Speed 350mpm Prizes £40, £30, £20, £15, £15

To run consecutively

Class 5 1.10m Open For Registered Horses Table A7 Speed 325mpm Prizes £30, £20, £15, £15, £10

Running both consecutively will save time. You will note that Newcomers horses can compete in both classes, and there is no prize money restriction on the 1.10m Open. Alternatively, or additionally, you can schedule a 1.15m Open which is a good progression for the Foxhunter/1.20m Open. If in the light of the information given above a Show wishes to change their schedule to include a Newcomers or 1.10m Open, please contact Julia in the Show Department as soon as possible.

Rule clarification for split classes

When qualification is by a double clear round, unless a horse/pony is the only clear, the horse/pony must jump off and go clear to gain the qualification. If the qualifying horse/pony does not jump off it will keep its placing but no qualification.

In a combined class if the qualifying horse/pony is the only clear round and there are other clears in the open section (unless they are all ridden by same rider) the qualifying horse / pony must jump off and go clear to gain the qualifying place. If the qualifying horse/pony does not jump off it will keep its placing but no qualification.

If a class is split and the qualifying horse/pony is the only clear the horse/pony need not jump off and will be awarded a double clear round for qualifying purposes.

In a combined class, riders may ride four eg. Foxhunter or Newcomers horses (three ponies) and four Open horses (three ponies).

 

[Rambo]

Hmmmm....so pretty much as we all suspected then ! Bottom line is expect to see 1.10m Open's disappear at smaller / winter shows due to the financial limitations of running 2 classes.

How long before the Foxhunter horses complain and they do away with the (remaining) 1.20m Open's too

 

[dieseldog]

So by consectively do they mean a NC horses could jump then an open , then a NC? Or do all the NCs have to jump and then all the Open horses? If it is the second what a pain, having to hang around to get a prize etc, I take it everyone jumps a first round and then they do the JO?

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
So by consectively do they mean a NC horses could jump then an open , then a NC? Or do all the NCs have to jump and then all the Open horses? If it is the second what a pain, having to hang around to get a prize etc, I take it everyone jumps a first round and then they do the JO?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, as i read it, NC horses would jump the NC first and then the Open...yes. I guess both sets of horses jump the first round, and then the fences are raised and they both do the JO

Would be a complete pain having to raise and lower fences in between otherwise

 

[Weezy]

I would have thought they would run it as a 2 phase?

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have thought they would run it as a 2 phase?

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be a sensible approach...

 

[dieseldog]

You are only allowed to run NC 2 phase under very special conditions

I have been through the schedules for the weekend and the next few months, and I can do nothing. The smallest class is 1.15 or 1.20, and I don't want to jump that. I think I have been officially £$%"&*(() by the BSJA, So is it worth rejoining?

I have found unaffliated at the hand though from 20cms upto 1.10 - might miss out the first class though.

Dorset and Wales and west seem to be the only places on with an open less than 1.15.

 

[Rambo]

Do you not have any 1.05m's around your way then ?

I haven't paid too much attention to the forthcoming schedules...but as i was intending to step Bo up to 1.15m and 1.20m classes over the next few shows anyway it *shouldn't* affect me too badly

It's a real bu99er for you though as they've effectively trashed your whole season.....not to mention screwing the value of your horse if it has nothing to jump

 

[RLD]

I'm having the opposite problem to you! Indoors the biggest class I can find is 1.10! Foxhunters are nearly extinct at my local weekend shows. I can't wait untill the summer when shows have more than one ring.

 

[Rambo]

I'm guessing you're based in the SE as well then

I have noticed that Golden Cross are scheduling a few Foxhunters in the coming weeks, and there was an Am 1.20m at Crockstead the other day. Other than that it's Royal Leisure on Tuesdays (although i think they're coming to the end of their season now too

)...and of course, Pyecombe have some weekend shows coming up and they ALWAYS run a Foxhunter and some bigger classes too

 

[dieseldog]

Not anymore - the hand always used to have a 1.05 followed by a 1.10 they have now both disappeared. Summerhouse used to have the same even might have been a 1m open.

West wilts do have a 1.05 but they only jump on tuesday nights in the summer and you don't get home to who knows what time if you do that and they don't get many entries so usually only have 1 prize - so glorified clear round for about £16.

No one does Amateur clasess round here.

You're right about my horse (at least she was cheap and she can't really drop much more in money) but she is out of all the BN/DS/NC/Fox so is an open horse - her limit is 1.25 classes mine at the moment is a lot less and if I start at 1.15 it will be a disaster. I wanted a fun summer thats why I bought the horse thinking I could do some 1m/1.10s

 

[RLD]

Yep, based in Kent! I have really struggled this winter to find foxhunters/ 120s and have resorted to going to Royal Leisure on a Tuesday whenever possible. Luckily Summers on its way and like you say Pycombe will be running, Felbridge sometimes have a bigger class, Goldon Cross etc. As a last resort I will have to persuade my mum (official lorry driver) to take time off to go to Norton Heath on a Tuesday.

 

[arkov]

bicton, redpost & coombe park must have 110cm opens...?
i think maybe, the newcomers may dissappear in favour of 110 opens at the smaller winter shows, but then the smaller winter shows will stop at newcomers so they can have the combined class......we'll see !

 

[Rambo]

Well, i just sent this to the BSJA....we'll see what response (if any) we get

[ QUOTE ]
To whom it may concern.

I read with dismay the amendment to the rule relating to the combining of Newcomers / 1.10m Open classes.

As the owner of a horse very much in the category affected by this amendment i would ask that the rules committee seriously reconsider what i would consider a disastrous change and one that will negatively affect a large proportion of the membership.

What is effectively happenning is that a wider gap is being created between the Progressive and Advanced Schedule categories and the step up to Foxhunter level is becoming even harder to make than it already is.

While i can sympathise with the riders of Newcomers horses having to jump against 'Open' grade horses, and i accept that a solution should be found, i fear the rules as they now stand will simply serve to eliminate one or the other category of class....Newcomers or 1.10m Open. If it is the latter then how will horses ever make the next step up ?

I fail to understand what difference it makes whether the schedule is a Progressive or an Advanced Category too....surely Newcomers horses are disadvantaged whatever the category of schedule so why restrict it to Advanced schedules ?

I see that a possible solution is offered in that a Newcomers and 1.10m Open can be scheduled as separate classes, but with a single course walk and single prize-giving. Surely that just makes life harder for two groups of people though as the 'Open' competitors must arrive early to walk the course, and the Newcomers riders must wait around for their prize giving. I believe also that the jump off of the first class might be carried out before the first round of the second class...making extra work, and extra delay for the coursebuilder and everyone involved.

If the only way forward is genuinely to separate Newcomers and 1.10m Opens, then why can't centres simply be allowed to run a class concurrently as they used to do, but paying out two sets of prize money based on the number of starters in each section and do this regardless of the category of the schedule, so a Progressive and/or an Advanced schedule could run the Open class ?

In my opinion this is a very serious issue that could materially affect the value of horses on the market today. With so many horses being imported from the continent and thus given winnings based on age, it is essential that there are a full range of classes for them to compete in when they arrive.

Out of interest, how are these rule amendments brought about ? Is there any form of consultation process with the membership before they are implemented ? It certainly doesn't feel that way from where i sit.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and i look forward to hearing your views.

Regards.


[/ QUOTE ]

 

[arkov]

Go you....
of course we know nothing & they know all !!!!!
but good luck...let us know wot happens

 

[Rizz1a]

Have you had a reply? I see the merits of Newcomer Horses being jumped seperately but also see the value in your comments.

I think that in many instances the BSJA are dammed if they do and dammed if they dont and I do believe that it must be a thankless task continually trying to ensure fair competition.

Not sitting on the fence here. I just feel that sometimes we can only see it from our own perspective. It will be good to see what reply you get.

 

[PaddyMonty]

You may wait a while for a reply.
I sent a similar email early last week and I'm still sat waiting for a response.

 

[Rambo]

Well, i got a reply to my letter/email from the BSJA today.

It didn't say much that we don't already know....and they included the article of clarification that they posted on their website.....that i'd already referred to it in my initial query

I re-iterated my points regarding the potential loss of the 1.10m Open, and again queried why they couldn't just allow a combined NC/1.10m Open with separate prizes for each section. I doubt it'll do any good as they seem comfortable that they have catered for everything with the advent of the 1.15m Open...but we can try

They did say they constantly monitor the situation with schedules though, so some hope at least

I'm off to pop the practice fence up another hole now............

 

[PaddyMonty]

Was your reply very much like the one I received?

"Thank you for your email, the contents of which have been noted.

I have attached for you an information sheet which clarifies the Rule Clarification for Newcomers / 1.10m.

This has recently been sent to show organisers, who now appear to understand how to schedule the classes and are making the necessary changes to their schedules. As the rule only came into effect this week, more time is required before we can look at statistics and see if the rule change has had the adverse affect you state. In fact three shows have been scheduling straight Newcomers followed by 1.15m Opens for some time as a pilot scheme and the 1.15m Open proved extremely popular.

The Rule change was implemented as the office was receiving constant complaints from members with Newcomer horses constantly being beaten by Open horses. After discussion at different Committee Meetings and liaising with some very well respected members of our Sport it was felt that Newcomers horses should have at least one class of their own as this class is what we term a ‘producing class’ for horses coming through the grades. "

Regards

 

[Rambo]

Hmmmmm.....seems like they might be using the ol' cut'n'paste then

Did you reply to yours ?

 

[PaddyMonty]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmmm.....seems like they might be using the ol' cut'n'paste then

Did you reply to yours ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. Didn't see any point