Newbie Saying Hello and seeking advice!

[Clumsyoaf]

Hello!

So I'm new, but not new to riding. I have moderate experience and am about to bring a horse back into work. He is a 15.1 medium weight Heinz 57 and hasn't been ridden in about 2 years. I wont be getting on for another month due to him requiring some teeth out, however, here is where the "problems" start

When he used to work he was fit and capable of jumping 1.1m, he has always been a bucker (I have seen photos and videos and its definitely him!)
He was then sold and nobody really knows what happened to him for the next two years, but the general consensus (from vet and back lady) is that he has hardly been worked, but from what the horse is saying and what I know, I imagine he has been naughty in the school, taken back to the yard, beaten then turned away. He is currently field fit and spends a lot of time trotting/cantering around the field, but is a shadow of his former self and very under muscled.

Now, I am 15.5stone, and dieting, I'm hoping that I can lose a stone before I get on him. Then with spending another month or so in walk in the school, hopefully I should be around 13.5 stone before I start working him properly.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can bring him back into work, in the best and kindest way (also considering my weight) he doesn't lunge, whatever you do he ends up turning in to look at you and just standing looking puzzled! So it looks like I am schooling him in hand or trying to get him used to long lining - either way should also help my weight loss and fitness too!

I also need to build his trust up around grooming, and ideally I would like to help him break his bucking habit - not that it really bothers me!

Thanks!

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

How long have you had him? What does he do when you groom him? It does sound like you need to go right back to basics. If he spends a lot of time trotting/cantering round the field it would indicate to me that he may be quite a stressed character. What is his current routine, does he have a field companion?

Have you got an instructor/more experienced friend that could come and help you with lunging or long reining? He maybe bucking through discomfort/pain so before getting on board I would be inclined to get everything fully investigated, perhaps even scoped for ulcers. Is he uncomfortable when you groom? Do you put a roller on him?

Have you got access to a school where you could free school him so he starts listening to your voice and body commands first of all?

Sorry so many questions but you need to try and look at the whole picture before hopping on board!

 

[Clumsyoaf]

Hiya!

He is a share and I am working with his owner, so it isn't just me or just her which is great. She has ridden him in the time she has had him back (hence why we know his previous history) and he was just as he was before. He has also been thoroughly checked over because the 2 years is a totally mystery, 100% sure there are no problems except possibly with his teeth but that will become clearer once they are gone.

He is just a fidget when being groomed, angel to catch and lead but as soon as you tie him, even with a hay net he swings around and fidgets constantly. He also hates spray bottles and yet was fine before. I have found places he likes where he stands still but otherwise it's back to prancing around a bit.

In the field he shares it with 2 others, one is a bit of a bully and the other likes to play together and they run after each other.

The owner has had him back for 2 months

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

Well two heads are better than one! Has he been fully checked out recently as that could be a good starting point?

 

[Clumsyoaf]

Sorry, it kind of cut out then posted half so I edited, yes in last 2 months seen vet, been chipped and repassported, back lady, tack fitted, dentist. Bless him! He also has signs of saddle sores at the base of his mane, but the back lady said no problems and neither her or the vet think he's been worked really

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

Perhaps he just needs a bit of settling time and getting to know you. The more you handle him, the more he'll gain your trust. It's good that his owner knows what he was like before as this is a good base to build your relationship from. Once you have a good trust on the ground then he'll be better with you on board. If you can long rein then it will benefit both of you. I long reined my girl this morning up some steep hills, I felt it!!!

How does he behave with his owner when being groomed? Is he fidgety without his field mate?

 

[Clumsyoaf]

I wonder how much of it is settling and how much is whatever has happened to the poor chap!

He's actually better for me than her, we are both firm but I'm more patient. She is slightly nervous of him so doesn't always give the right body language, especially when it's dominance behaviour! His bum always seems to swing into me, then gets pushed back but she dodges it (for example)

He's fidgety with or without them, but seems calmer when all 3 of them are in the yard! This weekend I same going to experiment with a radio to see if background noise helps. It's quite an enclosed yard so noises do stand out and can be hard to know where they come from!

Long lining turns him into a bucking nutter, so I don't know whether to persist or just drop it and school in hand more! He seems quite unresponsive to voice commands, but apparently he's always been rubbish from the ground (not naughty but lazy!) he charges at his owner when she is in the school with him...he tried with me for one step, when I became big and moved towards him! We had a small success on the lunge where she led him to get him going but as soon as she let go he stopped and turned in!

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

You do seem to be making steps towards trying to understand him which is great. Is the bucking through fright from the long reins or is it resistance do you think?

Some horses are better being ridden than being lunged although mine is a pure lazy lump regardless. The groundwork will help build muscle and strengthen him up. Do you lunge with one or two reins?

 

[Clumsyoaf]

I'm trying my hardest, after all if you don't understand the problem you can't make it better!

I think it is fear of having something across him, for the same reason I only tried to lunge with one, although I think we are going do 2 this weekend, just don't really want him going mad as if it is a resistance thing I don't want him to "win", and if it's a fear thing then I don't want to push him too much too soon. When he is in hand he just follows my lead, if I ask him to trot with no forward pressure he won't, but as soon as I start to jog he goes nicely beside me. Then the second I slow he drops back to walk, even if I have already asked him. As soon as there is no forward pressure, like if I start to move away to try and get him lunging, he just stops and turns in... I am sure he thinks "oi Mrs lazy why should I do more than you!"

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I would get a BHSII to come and long rein him, there is a basic problem that needs to be identified and solved,
A professional has enough experience to help both horse and rider.
It is not fair on the horse to have two handlers neither of whom have enough experience to sort out his problems, I feel for the horse !

 

[Clumsyoaf]

Thanks, if the owner wants to do that it is up to her! From my point of view, neither of us is clueless, the bucking/not lunging are problems that he has always had and he has been deemed problem free by a range of professionals. So physically, he just needs to muscle up and get back used to work. Mentally there is more work to do, and I do think that patience and consistency will play a massive role, however, if anyone has had experience of a similar horse scenario I would like to hear it

 

[PorkChop]

I would be long reining every day, out on the lanes and roads- I love long reining but boy it doesn't half burn some calories It will also be beneficial for him to build up some muscles and stamina before he has to carry a rider, a win, win situation

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I am not going to make any more suggestions as you have told us enough.
If you don't need advice, no need to come one here.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Thanks, if the owner wants to do that it is up to her! From my point of view, neither of us is clueless, the bucking/not lunging are problems that he has always had and he has been deemed problem free by a range of professionals. So physically, he just needs to muscle up and get back used to work. Mentally there is more work to do, and I do think that patience and consistency will play a massive role, however, if anyone has had experience of a similar horse scenario I would like to hear it

I am not going to make any more suggestions as you have told us you know what is needed.

 

[Clumsyoaf]

And I have taken it on board and will suggest it to the owner, but I am not sure what they will see that we can't!!! Advice like from ljr is much more helpful (thank you!) than being told that you feel sorry for the horse. I feel sorry for him up until now because he has lacked consistency and regular work, even his vet care had lagged, he now has all of those things, even if initially the work is learning to stand still and eat his hay whilst being groomed and a bit of in hand stuff in the school! His owner is a lovely caring lady, but she lacks patience and confidence with him. Before her he was spoiled rotten and since (by the sounds of it) neglected to a certain degree. Now he is back to a loving home and we can do our best for him! I am hoping he can improve with his groundwork both in and out of the school, then can be ridden at walk, start introducing trot etc at his pace. Stuff like long reigning him for a hack is actually a wonderful suggestion as my mind was bound to the school (for safety) and I wouldn't have really thought about taking him out until I knew he was ok walk and trot being ridden!