Newmarket horse sales....

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Kristine

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Hey guys,

Just a couple of questions about newmarket horse sales.....

Does anyone go?
Does anyone have a horse from there?
Is it only TB's?
Do they all range in age?

thanks guys

kristine
 
I've been a few times to sit and dream!! I was at the Houghton Yearling Sales in September 2000 the night the most expensive yearling ever sold in Europe went through the ring . . . . . £3,400,000 guineas (yes - 3 million four hundred thousand) + VAT. On the way home I worked out that was £4,194,750. Woh!!! Bay colt by Sadlers Wells out of Darara who was dam to (amongst others) Darazari, Dariyoun and Kilimanjaro. He was subsequently named Diaghelev and was pretty crap. He was sold to Hong Kong and races there under the name of Dancing River. It was THE most exciting thing I've ever witnessed. You could hear a pin drop in Tattersalls and the bids were going up in £100,000 chunks. Sheikh Mohammed was bidding against John Magnier and the bidding started at £200,000. God, it was thrilling!!!

At the same sale another un-named bay colt was bought by John Magnier for £270,000 guineas and he won the Derby in 2002 - High Chaparral!

And, yes, it is only TBs being sold
 
Yes I've been but not bought anything. PF came from there originally though!
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Anyone can go and buy, and you can pick up some real bargains along the year as different age groups are sold at different times; yearlings in October, foals at other times, horses in training, etc etc... Try their website!
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If you go to the horses in training sales you have a much better chance of picking up a bargain as owners and trainers sell off their lesser horses.
Going to a yearlings sale is a minefield and they are likely to cost a lot more guineas than the above mentioned sale.
Remember also you are bidding in guineas and that equates to a little more than a pound. Cannot remember exact figure and haven't got time to work it out as I have to go to work shortly.
I will have a look later though for any more information I can find out.
One tip is though be sure to do your homework if you are buying anything but particularly ex racers or those which are being passed on.
Get yourself a pre sale catalogue and do some research go on the racing post website and see how they ran under rules and to check if they incurred any injuries on the track which you need to know about really as there will no doubt be insurance exclusions for those injuries.
You could even contact the trainers themselves if you go to the national trainers federation website and look trainers up on there it will give you their contact details and then you may be able to trace and contact the owners too.
Buying horses from sales is fun as I got mine from a Brightwells auction at Leominster ( not a thoroughbred but there were a couple there though). I did plenty of research before I went though to see if I could find out who were the dealers and breeders etc or if the horses failed to sell and one did. It was previously described as being cold backed and it didn't look that much better in the auction I saw it in yet it went for a few grand, (bet the new owner had no idea it had been unsold before as the description was totally different second time around).
It is much easier to find out about racehorses though as there is so much info available to the public if you spend time looking for it.
The Weatherbys site is one, Racehorse Association site, Racing Post, The Jockey Club and. The racing post has a section on sales ( under bloodstock) which is pretty informative. You may need to log on to the site though, need a user name and password but it is all free.
I will point out though that only limited breeding information is available for free for a more detailed description you need to subscribe to weatherbys bloodstock and it is not cheap.
Good luck if you need any more information or want any help researching any sales etc please feel free to pm me.
Cazx
 
[ QUOTE ]
I will point out though that only limited breeding information is available for free for a more detailed description you need to subscribe to weatherbys bloodstock and it is not cheap

[/ QUOTE ]

I found Weatherbys to be most helpful when I was tracing a pedigree once. They gave me five generations over the phone!! Their free bloodstock reports on their website are excellent too - you can just keep tracing back.
 
Well maybe you did but I used to have dealings with Weatherbys and other associated horse racing bodies as a journalist which I am.
Yes the freebies are good but online you can only get so much information for free and then you have to subscribe which was the point I was trying to make, thankyou !!
 
Just a question, why do you need to research the pedigree if the horse is coming from the sales? It is all right there in front of you!
If you want a pedigree for a horse that isnt going through the sales, just ring up Irish Tatts with the dam name. They will gove you a sales date to search with on their website, and you will find a full pedigree just as it would be in the sales catalogues (but for the brother/sister/auntie/uncle).
 
Vicijp if I was buying a thoroughbred from the sales I would rather know as much about the family as I could but that is just me. How many generations do they provide in the sales catalogues because the only one's I have seen online and via a friend have only gone back one generation, maybe two.
I suppose it depends on what you are buying the horse for, breeding and further racing for example would probably require further research as during my studies and research I found a few individuals which obviously had genetical defects which resulted in early deaths.
If you are buying a horse then just for pleasure then obviously you will just need to look for any temperament issues, confirmation faults and any obvious injuries or if you could research them to see if they would be excluded from insurance etc. I know I would rather know why a horse was at the sales in the first place.
Can I just ask why people keep putting exclamation marks on the end of sentences as I see it in quite a lot of posts?
I actually find it quite offensive to be honest.
It is usually used after an interjection or exclamation to indicate strong feeling.
Most times on here it used as though someone wanted to shout at someone or be sarcastic.
Not aimed at you specifically as I am just replying as you were the last poster on this thread but it does really piss me off how people keep using them when other people get irate about people typing in red or capital letters and say it is shouting etc well so is using an exclamation mark imo.
Good information about the Irish Tatts though did not know that so will remember that for the future.
Cazx
 
The generations included in the catalogue depend on how good the family is. So if the family is crap, they keep going back until they can fill the page. If it is a strong family maybe only 2 generations will be listed. If your buying a horse for racing you only need the first 1/2 generations anyway (if you have any sense) - if theres no black type/winners there then it isnt much good.
As for buying ahorse to go out of racing, the pedigree will be naff all use. The Racing Post will tell you all you need to know, regarding time off between races that indicate injury etc. Then you go to the HRA site for any reports of bleeding, lameness etc.
As for knowing why the horse is there in the first place, there are 3 reasons. Its either slow or useless, or trained by a muppet who doesnt know a bad horse from a good one. The only way of working this out is to either ask around for a bit of stable talk, or be able to tell a good horse from a bad one.
As for the exclamation mark, I used it because I was astounded that someone could make something so easy sound so complicated.
 
Thing is not everyone is involved in racing or has racing buddies so don't have the contacts to ask them questions in the first place.
I did not make things sound so complicated or at least I did not think so.
Offering advice on places where to look was not complicated it was sound advice as I did not know the reason the post originator wanted a horse from the sales in the first place.
My advice covered virtually every possible event ie every reason the person wanted an ex racer, or foal, or a horse in training in the first place.
Yes the racing post will provide limited information but without the explanation that a horse fell, or pulled up, or a trainer feature there is no way of knowing why the horse had had a break from racing.
People don't advertise injuries very well is that not perhaps the reason why some people thing they are buying a good thing in a seller only to find it is a cripple when they come to race it under their name.
I have known people who have experienced this themselves.
Information about the horses injuries were not available first hand and as it was it only raced one more time ( under their name and new trainer) and then that was it, as it had fragile legs.
I am not a complicated person and nor do I have trouble conveying issues. You only have to ask the people I have interviewed over the years, I can give names if that is necessary or is that going to complicate matters?
Caroline
 
Im not saying you can tell everything from form.
The HRA site is handy, has every report listed when a horse has gone lame etc. If you actually go to the sales you should be able to tell what is wrong with the horse within 5 mins of looking at it - if not, then you shouldnt be there in the first place. Knowing the ins and outs of different trainers regimes is handy towards knowing why a horse has had a break from racing.
My original point was that you dont need pedigrees going back generation after generation to buy a horse. It is you that have gone off on a tangent about exclamation marks.
As for sellers, everyone must know they are in them for a reason. I too know someone who brought one for £12k out of a seller to find it had cauliflower knees. Lucky for them it won next time (after 2 sets of steroids) and someone else claimed it off them. Anyone with half a brain wouldnt have touched a horse off the original trainer in the first place.
If your freinds want to buy another horse, tell them to give my dad a ring. He claims horses out of sellers and improves them 30ibs, in one case to group class.
 
Chill out. . .
I've managed to trace a pedigree right back, for free, using the free bloodstock reports where you type in the horse's name and it gives you the parents. Then type in the name of each parent and it gives you their parents and so on. Doesn't cost anything so I don't understand what you mean, I'm afraid, about having to pay.
 
Oh right Forester I was unsure about the free bloodstock reports as I have only looked into a few pedigrees using them and then I discovered that some information I wanted I could not get access to without registering that was all I meant by it. But if you can trace back as far as you say and that is the only information that the original poster may be after or even someone who may read this thread then that is fine.
Vicijp I will check out that the HRA site as it is something I have not looked into before regarding injuries as I have always used the racing post website and trainer interviews either read or conducted by me to get the information that I wanted.
I have had no real reason to delve into injuries deeply for personal or work reasons so I'm glad you pointed that bit of info out as I will remember that.
Sadly though there are not many people who could figure why a horse was at the sales and judge its injury or fault within 5 mins particularly when they are such things as masking drugs around and other tricks of the trade.
I know I could certainly not spot every affliction in every horse sporting an injury within 5 minutes and I am neither a numpty nor someone who should not be at the sales in my opinion.
In most cases I would ask for a second opinion anyway wherever possible and take a friend along if I was able to.
That is not to say I would not trust my own judgement but that two heads are better than one.
Horses can be in sellers or claimers for a number of reasons and not just through injury or because to coin a phrase they are crap. Some are not capable of winning in a higher grade but obviously connections must then be prepared they may lose them at the auction or through claims. There were two horses quite recently that caused a stir as they were considered part of the woodwork at their appropriate yards but they then lost them.
Not all horses that go through them are bad though, ex french horses are often claimed through claiming races and end up winning over here and a few years back Martin Pipe claimed Make a Stand from the flat and he ended up winning the Cheltenham Champion hurdle so anything is possible.
I think proceed with caution is the only advice I would give to anyone buying from an auction and if you have any doubt at all about an individual don't buy it.
Yes I know your dad has been good at rejuvenating horses and that he is a good trainer as I have interviewed him a couple of times after winning
 
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