Next bit up from french link - nappy horse

CobSunshine

CobSunshine

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Been using this bit for a while

JP Korsteel Sweet Eggbutt Iron French Link

http://www.cybercheckout.co.uk/products/jp-korsteel-sweet-iron-eggbutt-french-link-snaffle.html

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The "JP curve" is gentler on the mouth as it curves around his lips, but its basically a french link with fixed D ring.

Recently my Welsh Cob has started to get very nappy when out on his own and even with other horses. Once we get to a certain bit in the ride (where he knows at this point its the long ride were going on!) he decides he's had enough and turns round and trots in the other direction.

I can get off and lead him past the sticking point but as soon as im back on and hes had his nappiness spell hes turning around again and trotting home.

What would be the next bit up from this without going too harsh, to give me more braking power to stop him trotting off and to relay more disipline to the horse so he's less likely to get away with it/try it on?
 
I would suggest a full cheek bit. You could keep the french link or get one with a lozenge. I find that full cheeks are very handy with a nappy horse that whips-around or even just turns round slowly, because it makes it so much easier to turn them back again, or stop them from turning in the first place.

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I tried a full cheek with a copper peanut roller but it made him thrash his head about everywhere, perhaps he didnt like the pressure on the bars?

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I might be wrong here but a bit wont stop the nappiness - it will just help stop the trotting off. BUT I'd be more inclined to work on the napping without a stronger bit first.

Can you trot him past his sticking point?
Can you stop him at that point and wait him out til he walks on properly?
Can you sandwich him between horses with nowhere to go?
Can you do the route backwards?

He's clearly well aware that he CAN just turn around, its your job to be strict and to not let him. OutSMART him :) he's a horse - you're a human it can be done :) I had these same arguments with previous horses and the outcome has always been the same - they give up before I do (and I'm no super dooper great rider!)

If you do need a change I wouldn't be going stronger just something with cheeks :) like a d ring or fulmer/full cheek.
 
I agree with Faracat that a full cheek would help. When my horse was napping she would mainly try and turn to the left so I carried a schooling whip and when I felt she was turning held it out at a right angle to her body and it stopped her from spinning round.
 
I would agree with the full cheek but the most important thing is
A) Not to get off.
B) Stop him turning around even if this means using both hands on one rein and hauling him back against the direction he turns in
C) Carry a dressage whip in the hand the side he turns to and as he goes to turn give a good swish with it in front of his face so he knows it is there.

If he does get around and trots off with you, when you can stop and turn him, make him go at a good deal faster pace back to the napping point.

It is not the bit that needs changing but how you determine to ride this nappiness.
 
BoolavogueDC said:
I might be wrong here but a bit wont stop the nappiness - it will just help stop the trotting off. BUT I'd be more inclined to work on the napping without a stronger bit first.

Can you trot him past his sticking point?
Can you stop him at that point and wait him out til he walks on properly?
Can you sandwich him between horses with nowhere to go?
Can you do the route backwards?

He's clearly well aware that he CAN just turn around, its your job to be strict and to not let him. OutSMART him :) he's a horse - you're a human it can be done :) I had these same arguments with previous horses and the outcome has always been the same - they give up before I do (and I'm no super dooper great rider!)

If you do need a change I wouldn't be going stronger just something with cheeks :) like a d ring or fulmer/full cheek.
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This, he is getting away with turning round, THAT is the problem not the trotting off, you need to address the turning and a change of bit, apart from maybe one with cheeks will not stop him turning.
A running martingale may help stop him getting his head up, if he does, giving you a bit of time as he starts to turn.
 
Can you get a JP frenck link (the mouthpiece that he likes) but with full cheeks?

K1975's tip about holding a schooling whip on the side that he turns towards is a good idea. :) If he will turn either way, take two schooling whips and tap him on the shoulder that he is turning towards.

Also, if you can feel him thinking about turning, hold your hands slightly further apart than normal so that you are ready to 'catch' him and send him forwards with you legs.
 
Can you trot him past his sticking point?

No he still turns, also if he see's any exits off this section of bridleway some which are quite steep he'll try going up there to get out of going forward.

Can you stop him at that point and wait him out til he walks on properly?

No once in his head hes going home he wont even stand

Can you sandwich him between horses with nowhere to go?

Tried this last week blocking the way with another horse and he pushed her out the way!

Can you do the route backwards?

This is one of the main bridleways which leads to the longer ride and no way to get to it another way. He's fine on the way home no napping whatsoever!

He's clearly well aware that he CAN just turn around, its your job to be strict and to not let him. OutSMART him :) he's a horse - you're a human it can be done :) I had these same arguments with previous horses and the outcome has always been the same - they give up before I do (and I'm no super dooper great rider!)

I long reined him today to give him confidence he was great for 25 minutes until we got to this "long ride is approaching" section and then started behaving exactly how he does when im riding him - which resulted in me nearly skiing down the bridleway with him.

I tried for an hour to get him down this section. In the end lead him by hand which he is a saint to do and happily followed down the entire section. But once over the styal onto the next bit and started to long rein again he turned around and trotted home, skiing recommenced. This is why I think the bit isnt working if I cant even stop him using all my bodyweight behind me?




Foxhunter49 said:
I would agree with the full cheek but the most important thing is
A) Not to get off.
B) Stop him turning around even if this means using both hands on one rein and hauling him back against the direction he turns in
C) Carry a dressage whip in the hand the side he turns to and as he goes to turn give a good swish with it in front of his face so he knows it is there.
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Foxhunter49 said:
Thanks great tips so far everyone :)
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Faracat said:
Can you get a JP frenck link (the mouthpiece that he likes) but with full cheeks?

K1975's tip about holding a schooling whip on the side that he turns towards is a good idea. :) If he will turn either way, take two schooling whips and tap him on the shoulder that he is turning towards.

Also, if you can feel him thinking about turning, hold your hands slightly further apart than normal so that you are ready to 'catch' him and send him forwards with you legs.
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That sounds like an idea for full cheek but keeping the french link jp curve so same as now but makes turning difficult.
 
Agree with others here, changing the bit will not solve the problem, and that is what you need to do. A stronger mouthpiece may give you more control for now, but it won't stop him napping and he will most likely become resistant and you'll find you;ll have to change it again in a few months.

The full cheek will give you more control in regards to the spinning/turning him, and the likely reason he shakes his head is because he doesn't like the bars correcting him, when he goes to turn, it will come into play, and he isn't used to it.

Carry a stick, don't get off, when he tries, turn him in tight circles and reprimand him. It needs to be the easy option to go forwards, so that he can make the decision himself that that is the right thing to do!
 
SophieLouBee said:
Agree with others here, changing the bit will not solve the problem, and that is what you need to do. A stronger mouthpiece may give you more control for now, but it won't stop him napping and he will most likely become resistant and you'll find you;ll have to change it again in a few months.

The full cheek will give you more control in regards to the spinning/turning him, and the likely reason he shakes his head is because he doesn't like the bars correcting him, when he goes to turn, it will come into play, and he isn't used to it.

Carry a stick, don't get off, when he tries, turn him in tight circles and reprimand him. It needs to be the easy option to go forwards, so that he can make the decision himself that that is the right thing to do!
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is it best to correct him with the whip on his bum or shoulder when he starts being naughty?
 
And be strong! If he cannot look to you for firm leadership - then he WILL take the lead. Which is what he's doing.

I'm sure he is very strong, but again, its not about braun its about making him think you are the boss. Much of that is done without braun but simply insisting, unequivocally that he WILL do what he's told.

I have always been brought up to not get off (I know we are split here on this) but getting off is undoubtedly a real treat for a horse - so you are just treating his bad behaviour with a nice treat by getting off. (IMO) I would stay on and ponyclub kick/use my stick/ turn him and start in the morning with the firm design that he WILL do it by the end of the day :)

** also do you have someone who is a really strong confident rider who could ride him for you?
 
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Use the whip on his shoulder to discourage turning, and on his butt if he reverse.

Be persistant, no matter how long it takes, he needs to go forward, and each forward step he takes, make sure you reward him in some form, stopping the nagging and saying good boy, maybe even giving him the reins. If he starts playing up again, make sure you are on his case straight away!

It might take you three hours the first time, but each battle you win, the next will be easier
 
Mine used to be very nappy and he will trot off snorting if he got his own way! It's very naughty!

I would follow all the good advice given about addressing the napping which seems to be a habit. The whip works well, I let mine see it if I feel him getting 'sticky', it's just a little reminder to him. It's also good if I have to turn him one way to correct a nap, and he evades sideways through the shoulder so he gets a smack on that shoulder to correct it. Eventually he gives up. I use a normal whip though because it seems to be more effective on the shoulder than a schooling whip which is meant to be used behind the leg, I guess it just depends on the type of evasion you get from the horse.
 
You do need to be firm, as others have said, but with some horses it can be very difficult. I recommend a PeeWee bit which is a loose ring bit with side pieces alongside the bottom jaw, which only come into play if the horse isn't listening to your instructions. This will help you to stop him turning/keep him straight. I have used it successfully on a very powerful horse, who could set her neck like stone.
 
If he wants to turn let him - pull him into the turn & keep him turning with his head right round to your foot if you have to. When he stops keep him going. Round & round. Amazing how this can put a stop to such napping.
If you are riding with company let them carry on as you do this.
 
thanks as ever guys some more great tips!

Im going to keep tackling this route over and over till he stops the nap.

New bit ordered and new whip shopping this weekend
 
s4sugar said:
If he wants to turn let him - pull him into the turn & keep him turning with his head right round to your foot if you have to. When he stops keep him going. Round & round. Amazing how this can put a stop to such napping.
If you are riding with company let them carry on as you do this.
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This can work well.

I know lots of people are against getting off but have you tried leading him down this ride? I mean lead right from the start. You say he is good to lead so if you could get him the length of the ride without stopping you have got there in part. If this works repeat it over and over until the mindset of stopping is changed. Then try it mounted with someone on the ground with you ready to lead if necessary. Again repetition. Grind the B----rd down!:D:D

Breaking a problem down into little stages can work better than having an all out battle which your horse knows quite clearly he can win!

One other point, if he is so against going for the long ride could there be a physical problem such as a tight saddle, sore back etc which a long ride would aggravate?

Good luck!
 
Hi

I had a D ring snaffle link etc when I got my cob but he had been driven and very strong in the mouth I had real trouble turning him if he took off and needed to turn him into a small circle and so was advised to use a full cheek to stop me pulling the Ds through. It was to help turn him..it didnt stop him being strong but I do agree small circles, even if you are practically up to his mouth and ears(short rein whichever side and I literally had to pull my boy....BUT realise not all are as strong in mouth). This was a rarity but coming up to main road was a necessity to be able to turn him in.(long story). But you go round and round until it is listening and then go forward.

I would also tell the other riders to continue on their way. Most horses want to stick in the herd.

I can understand the fear of the reaction you might get if you use a whip but if your horse is ok coming home past the same spot he really is taking the peeeee. Personally I would not get off at all, stay on board. They dont forget do they, he will now expect you to get off, and he is controlling you. How about going on a different route and approach the nappy route again if you have lost your nerve to stay on? OR I would get someone to either lead me past with me on board as a very last resort if you have lost your nerve ie you have not got off. My sisters horse use to nap in the same spot back up etc and it was cured by someone coming out of the horse eating hedge with a lunging whip and getting the horse forward. It never napped again.

Definitely do not give in. But you have been given good advice. The full cheek is to help turn(I dont think using a stronger bit will cure the napping problem..its a schooling issue to get him listening to you either voice GROWL WALk ON etc and smack on shoulder or butt. Good luck...half halts etc etc
 
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Agree with the full cheek suggestion to assist with steering. I have a similar problem - when he's decided hedoesn't want to be somewhere he turns to the right and tries to bugger off!

I've discovered I can ususally catch him a couple of strides before (took a while as he's quick) and I growl and push him forward. If he beats me and tries turning I either tap on the shoulder and try to stop him - sometimes results in a backwards step then I can move him on, or if he manages to start the turn, I continue turning him round in a tiny circle on the spot several times till he gets bored and then we move forward.

Good luck :D
 
I think you need to work on his general behaviour, my boy went a bit nappy recently and I moved to a schooling yard, he has only been lunged and ridden a few times by a strong and determined, but quiet rider, and he is 100% better out hacking already. sometimes you have to change the pattern of behaviour, but he should not be running off with you, turn him round and set off in the required direction.
 
*UPDATE*

Went out this morning and borrowed a longer whip which also has a dangly bit on the end. Went on a short technical route ive not done for a while as didnt have much time before work.

Ive noticed he tries to take the lead in certain sections so then he can turn round and stop the other horse from going forward so they can both head home :eek: very clever LOL

Took him to some steps he doesnt like going up as its really hard work. He started to turn at the entrance to the steps so dangled the whip at the side of his face, he got a beady eye, instantly straightened up and trotted up the steps! (hes never trotted up the steps before haha) Gave him loads of pats at the top :)

He tried the go in front and do the turn round trick twice, again napping to the left used the whip and beady eye again and a light trot in the direction i wanted.

The above only minor naps though compared to how he behaves on "the route" but never the less very quick reaction to the whip idea!!

He ALWAYS naps to the left so this makes it easy to carry the whip in one hand only with little need to change. Will take me a while to get used to the bigger dangly whip but it seems worth the effort.

Bit is ordered and should be here on Friday. My boyfriend is going to walk behind us on the ride on Saturday morning. Im borrowing the longer whip again and will try the dreaded "massive strop long ride nap route"! All tips will come into play and worst worst case boyfriend will put lead rope on and get him past the nap section. Well do this for a few weeks till it sinks in.

I feel like ive made some real progress today.


Tammytoo said:
One other point, if he is so against going for the long ride could there be a physical problem such as a tight saddle, sore back etc which a long ride would aggravate?

Good luck!
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saddle all fitted professionally and as soon as he's on way home he's good as gold so blatant taking the p*ss! lol



indie999 said:
Hi

I would also tell the other riders to continue on their way. Most horses want to stick in the herd.


GROWL WALk ON etc and smack on shoulder or butt. Good luck...half halts etc etc
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two good tips about telling the other riders to carry on and the growl walk on cheers!


leflynn said:
I've discovered I can ususally catch him a couple of strides before (took a while as he's quick) and I growl and push him forward. If he beats me and tries turning I either tap on the shoulder and try to stop him - sometimes results in a backwards step then I can move him on, or if he manages to start the turn, I continue turning him round in a tiny circle on the spot several times till he gets bored and then we move forward.

Good luck :D
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the tiny circling sounds worth trying to :)

MrsD123 said:
I think you need to work on his general behaviour, my boy went a bit nappy recently and I moved to a schooling yard, he has only been lunged and ridden a few times by a strong and determined, but quiet rider, and he is 100% better out hacking already. sometimes you have to change the pattern of behaviour, but he should not be running off with you, turn him round and set off in the required direction.
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hes great to lunge and lead and will even run alongside me on the field, i think hes got a bee in his bonnet about this particular stretch where he's worst on. Looking forward to conquering it on Saturday!
 
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