Next hay making expert question

[Polos Mum]

Can hay get too dry before it's baled?

We cut 2 days ago and it's been 25+ here since then so is making very quickly - we can't bale until Wednesday (OH at work) forecast is great so for once not too worried about rushing to get it in before rain.

Unusually good weather hence unusual question - can it be too dry? I spoke to neighbour who had to bale haylage after just one day because it was getting too dry!

 

[poiuytrewq]

Interesting! I think it can yes- I only comment this because we've cut a few fields to make hay this year and I went with my o/h to turn it yesterday and he commented that one field with far less grass was going to make by Monday and wouldn't be the best hay as we too can't bale until Wednesday.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I am a TOTAL hay making beginner though!

 

[Polos Mum]

Poiuytrewq - did/ can your OH elaborate on why it won't be so good? If it looses nutrition I don't mind as it'll be fed ad lib so OK for my fatty big horse, if it goes dusty or something else nasty I might be tempted to get out the baler myself!!
Then we can collect and stack on Wednesday!

 

[meesha]

My hay was done in similar temperatures last year and baled one day earlier than u normally would and it was brilliant stuff. I assume if too hot it won't be very nutritious although would be great for good doers! Not sure if it would be more or less dusty, I would imagine u could feed it sooner after baling as would be totally dry !

 

[MudMudGloriousMud]

I think it can be too dry in that the nutritional content isn't as high, but I'd much rather bale it too dry than still green and underturned.
My Dad taught me that if you take a handful of cut grass/hay and 'saw' it in your hands - like you would if you were sawing on the reins (not that we would obv!!!!!!) and it breaks easily then the hay is ready to bale, if it is tough it needs turning again.... if that makes sense?!

Mel x

 

[Polos Mum]

Thanks both, lower nutrition I don't mind at all, we often cut much later anyway to get lower nutrition for the big boy, it's easy to top up with a little sugarbeet/ alfa A oil if they need it, much prefer that to having to ration too rich hay.

 

[Dry Rot]

I love these hay threads! The nonsense just goes round and round! (Yes, I'm in that sort of mood today.).

The only reason hay can get "too dry" is if you have to move it too often, which you'd have to do in variable weather that is alternately showery and drying. Yoiu row up ready for the baler and along comes another shower....again and again and again! Then it begins to break up and become dusty. That isn't going to happen in the current conditions!

Much better "too dry" than not dry enough.

If you really want to prevent it from bleaching, row it up. Then spread it again before finally rowing up for baling when it is quite dry.

I've just hitched up the tedder and I'm about to attach the rower to the second tractor. Cut yesterday and it is a blisteringly hot sunny day here now. Just going down to have a look to see whether it is worth tedding it or just leaving it until tomorrow. The weather forecast will be the decider.

There are various well tried tests for deciding whether hay is fit to bale. I like to look at the nodes (joints) of the grass stalks to see if they are thoroughly dried out. Then the rows will move and rustle in the breeze. If the small bales seem too heavy, the hay is probably not dry enough. Same for big bales which you judge by pushing them sideways. You could even buy a moisture meter. But hay making is still more of an art than a science.

 

[Miss L Toe]

The worse hay [for horse] you can make is dusty hay.
To make dusty hay you need it to be rained on and then turned and then rained on and then turned. If it has to be left for five days and rained on after turning it will even start to rot!
The very Best Hay, is cut early one fine sunny day [after 22nd June] [ no fluffing up that day, fluffing up should be only done preparatory to baling]
It is turned at noon to 2.00 pm the next day assuming the next day is fine and sunny and drying.
It is fluffed up and windrowed and baled as soon as possible [usually day 3 or 4]
BEST hay is made in 3/4 days, it is dry, it has never got wet, it has not been turned after rain, the weather has been sunny and dry [a wind helps]
N.B> Good hay for leisure horses may not be suitable for racehorses.
When I had natives, and a TB, I bought stuff no other horse owner would buy.... it was low in nutrients therefore "poor quality" but there was no dust and it had a mix of fine and stalky grass, plus afew herbs, so it suited my foal, my mare and my young TB, it lasted for six hours [I once had to sleep in next stable, it was ideal for my purposes and it cost £50 for a small lorry load. The farmer thought I was a bit thick, cos two people had refused to buy it, so he just stuffed the lorry full to get rid of it ... £1.50 per smallish bale.
It was ideal for my purposes. ie a feed to chew on all night in winter.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Can hay get too dry before it's baled?

We cut 2 days ago and it's been 25+ here since then so is making very quickly - we can't bale until Wednesday (OH at work) forecast is great so for once not too worried about rushing to get it in before rain.

Unusually good weather hence unusual question - can it be too dry? I spoke to neighbour who had to bale haylage after just one day because it was getting too dry!

Hay is preserved by drying eg Dried onions as found in soup mixes.
Haylage is bagged and fermented eg pickled onions ...... moisture required
In theory hay can get "too dry" which will cause the leaves to break in to little pieces, so that in extremis you end up leaving the fractured leaf in the field and you bale the stalks.
Dont mess about with the hay and bale it quickly, and all will be OK.
You can leave the cut grass on the field in good weather [or bad] and it will not deteriorate [well within limits], once you start to handle it you need to bale it asap, by which I mean , before it rains and when it is dry enuff not to ferment/heat in storage.

 

[martlin]

It'll be alright baled on Wednesday, it will be, ahem, crispy, and some of my horses don't like it that way, but there certainly won't be anything wrong with it
Are you still wanting to borrow my sheep after the grass bounces back?

 

[Miss L Toe]

I love these hay threads! The nonsense just goes round and round! (Yes, I'm in that sort of mood today.).

The only reason hay can get "too dry" is if you have to move it too often, which you'd have to do in variable weather that is alternately showery and drying. Yoiu row up ready for the baler and along comes another shower....again and again and again! Then it begins to break up and become dusty. That isn't going to happen in the current conditions!

Much better "too dry" than not dry enough.

If you really want to prevent it from bleaching, row it up. Then spread it again before finally rowing up for baling when it is quite dry.

I've just hitched up the tedder and I'm about to attach the rower to the second tractor. Cut yesterday and it is a blisteringly hot sunny day here now. Just going down to have a look to see whether it is worth tedding it or just leaving it until tomorrow. The weather forecast will be the decider.

There are various well tried tests for deciding whether hay is fit to bale. I like to look at the nodes (joints) of the grass stalks to see if they are thoroughly dried out. Then the rows will move and rustle in the breeze. If the small bales seem too heavy, the hay is probably not dry enough. Same for big bales which you judge by pushing them sideways. You could even buy a moisture meter. But hay making is still more of an art than a science.

Nice post, I loved it, but even with a degree in agriculture and 40 years with Deffra/ADAS/NAAS, I have struggled, cos round here they use different terms, rowing, windrowing, tedding, I love it.

Of course if a contractor bales for you at a cost per bale you get lots of bales compared to the number produced by contracting to bale per acre.

An average horse owner is not used to farm work: they want a medium / small size bale which is not going to collapse and which is palatable and medium nutritious ie medium/ good horse hay NO RAGWORT.
Best racehorse hay is a particular Rygrass species grown specially for horses it is NOT the rygrass grown for cows and so beloved of the average farmer less than age 70.
I worked as a pupil on a sheep farm [anno domieni 1964]: we used the bathroom scales to weigh the fat lambs: I had to lift the lamb and we read off the scale to calculate the weight.
With 550 lambs per day, I soon got to recognise the correct weight, those who were too light got dropped straight off, to be weighed in again the next week!

 

[Polos Mum]

Many thanks all - you never know unless you ask and we've made (IMHO) fab hay for 5 years now but always been racing against the rain - hence never wondered about too much sun/ heat.

I'm not bothered by the colour, texture, low nutrition at all, just quality is key, and it sounds like all I have to do is stop the OH going mad turning it so there is still some leaf left to bale!

Are you still wanting to borrow my sheep after the grass bounces back?

Martlin absolutely - if you have them to spare, there is still loads of grass left on the boys spring field and my big horse looks like he could give birth!! So they certainly won't be needing the grazing. If you're passing and want to come and have a look at what fencing they might need just let me know.

 

[martlin]

Martlin absolutely - if you have them to spare, there is still loads of grass left on the boys spring field and my big horse looks like he could give birth!! So they certainly won't be needing the grazing. If you're passing and want to come and have a look at what fencing they might need just let me know.

I'm more than happy to lend them any time really. I'm going away for a bit now, but my OH would maybe pop up next weekend and make a fencing assessment? Could you either PM me your number or find me on FB (Martlin Equestrian, surprisingly )

 

[Miss L Toe]

Many thanks all - you never know unless you ask and we've made (IMHO) fab hay for 5 years now but always been racing against the rain - hence never wondered about too much sun/ heat.

I'm not bothered by the colour, texture, low nutrition at all, just quality is key, and it sounds like all I have to do is stop the OH going mad turning it so there is still some leaf left to bale!




Martlin absolutely - if you have them to spare, there is still loads of grass left on the boys spring field and my big horse looks like he could give birth!! So they certainly won't be needing the grazing. If you're passing and want to come and have a look at what fencing they might need just let me know.

Err quality: yes, by definition a Big Mac is a quality item, that is to say is is of a known substance which is reproducable: from New York to New South Wales. It does not make it palatable to me, but it ensures I will find somewhere else to eat.
Clothing can be good quality eg Christian Dior, it can be Guicci .......... it may be Primark, you know what to expect. I can be pretty sure Our Queen does not shop at Primark, she knows that their quality is not suitable for for her lifestyle..

Hay comes in different descriptions
When I look at hay, i see colour, this is part of quality.
Dark brown/dirty/almost burnt is not really suitable as a winter feed for most leisure horses it may just be suitable for natives though, as long as it is not dusty or mouldy... and they will eat it.

A good medium hay for horses is Timothy/Meadow Fescue, but a Cockle Park mixture will do for Clydesdales. Racehores want perennial rygrass cut after 30th june, ......... and real gypsy vanner youngstock get by on average hay which has been looted from a farmers field in July!

Texture, do you mean stalky versus fine............ actually this is part of the description of the hay, part of the quality.
Very small and very young animals, and old animals, prefer a fine hay, because they cannot chew stalky hay.... I expect Minatures would find medium horse hay quite a challenge,
Give me a consomme and I can cope, corn on the cob, well the dentures are challenged!

ooo ohoh oh........ I see you are winding me up!!!!!
I fall for it every time.

 

[Polos Mum]

Sorry Miss L Toe I didn't mean to offend with my lazy terminology. By quality I mean not dusty or mouldy and palitable.

Mind don't seem to mind bleached colour hay, they eat the bales from the outside of the stack just as readily as the much greener ones on the inside.

Mine are very much leasure horses doing light work (at best!) so low nutritional value is ideal for them so I can happily feed ad lib without weight issues. So 'average' hay is fine for me, we cut 8th August last year and it was ideal nutrition for my big horse.

It has to be said though I'm not sure I'd call a big mac quality food, but that's just me - doesn't stop me craving them after a night out!

 

[Miss L Toe]

Sorry Miss L Toe I didn't mean to offend with my lazy terminology. By quality I mean not dusty or mouldy and palitable.

Mind don't seem to mind bleached colour hay, they eat the bales from the outside of the stack just as readily as the much greener ones on the inside.

Mine are very much leasure horses doing light work (at best!) so low nutritional value is ideal for them so I can happily feed ad lib without weight issues. So 'average' hay is fine for me, we cut 8th August last year and it was ideal nutrition for my big horse.

It has to be said though I'm not sure I'd call a big mac quality food, but that's just me - doesn't stop me craving them after a
night out!

The point was, that "quality" is a "standard", so when I am buying hay, I do not need to go and see it, I can ask a hay supplier what kind of hay he has for a sale ..
He may have three types or he may have thirty if he buys from all over.
A farmer who wants winter forage for store cattle does not want hay suited to calves, he may want both, but he does not keep his calves with his store cattle. He may also have shed for his fattening bullocks and they get a differen regime from his stores. So this one farmer wants three different qualities, but they are all quality hays. none of them are "poor quality"
Horse hay must be dust and mould free, and as for palatable...... well not all are "fussy", the most impotant thing is that the horse has something to keep the intestinal processes working 24/7. Exra nutrients can be added by means of "short feeds"
Late cut hay [usually dried in the sun] has a lower Digestible Equivalent than early cut, that is to say it is stalkier, propotionally less leaf, it has a higher proportion of fibre to proteins than grass cut earlier inthe season.
Most horses will eat most hays , assuming they can [teeth], basically you want to trickle-feed horses, so something not too easy to eat is ideal.
Dust leads to disease: horses have a poorly designed respiratoy system so are prone to problems. It is vital the stables are well ventilated, it may be less comfortable for the owner, but for the horse it means good health.