Nightmare grass livery continued - WWYD

R2R

R2R

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I posted ages ago about a livery that didn’t ever come to see her horse. Said livery then got a loaner (at my insistence) who has done her horse all over the winter. Loaner is lovely, but has completely been taken advantage of – she has done the pony all winter, and the owner has not bothered to bring her saddle down so hasn’t been able to ride. She has persisted (and paid) for this for SIX MONTHS (!!!!!) but has finally had enough and handed her notice in (I don’t blame her). The loaner/sharer also paid for the horse to have its back checked 2 weeks ago and was diagnosed as basically being in pain – which the owner knew nothing about – but in a way it’s a good job it didn’t have a saddle.

So loaner is going to get a pony of her own…however it means I am now stuck in the same situation with the other pony/owner…she will not be up/care for her horse etc, and I cant see any potential loaner wanting to loan an ill mannered (he really is) ill schooled (yes that is true too) bad to hack out (it tanks, spooks etc) pony with a bad back and no tack!!!

Do I give her her notice? Or what do you think my other options are?
 
If the pony is out at grass, and doing well on the grazing - and you are getting paid - then everything else is irrelevant.

However, if the pony has needs that need to be addressed daily - then start charging her for doing them - or give her notice.
 
I would ask WHW (ILPH) for their advice on the best way forward. The important issue is that the horse is protected from this owner and at the moment you and the loaner have been doing this. WHW come up against these situations all the time, lets hope they can intervene diplomatically so that the is looked after properly or rehomed.
 
amymay said:
If the pony is out at grass, and doing well on the grazing - and you are getting paid - then everything else is irrelevant.

However, if the pony has needs that need to be addressed daily - then start charging her for doing them - or give her notice.
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I am not fussed about owner being up every day – but the owner is a nightmare eg last year she was un-contactable for 2 months, went away for 6 weeks without telling us, NEVER answers her phone, owes my farrier for 2 lots, and didn’t even turn up when the horse had half its foot hanging off – so not fussed AM about her not visiting every day, however disappearing off of the face of the planet is a bit irritating.
 
What does your livery agreement say? In my livery agreement I or someone else has to visit the horse twice a day, and also poo pick the field which means that we have to go there. I would do this anyway, if I had my own yard but I think that these are good rules to have meaning the horses get checked regularly.
 
Agreement states that someone must check, or arranged for the horse to be checked daily. Field is mahousive and gets harrowed and rested.
 
if the livery owes money then you can pursue them through the small claims court in order to seize the horse and sell it on to recoup the money owed. Anything over that amount has to be returned to the livery though. If they don't then perhaps you need to speak to WHW or BHS welfare and see what your options are. If the pony is well cared for in respect of having food source,water and shelter and the field is safe then I doubt there is little that they can do.I would be inclined to speak to the owner and explain that you need the space and as they don't seem to want to have anything to do with the horse that either it is sold or removed by them by a certain date.Should that date then pass I think you will be able to legally apply for ownership of the horse through the courts.
 
On a practical level, have you got contact details of sharer? Would they buy the horse off the owner? Would the owner sell to that person? If they persisted for 6 months they've got to have liked the horse!

Hopefully you have address of owner - could you pay them a visit if they don't answer the phone? Depending on your contract IMO it is NOT acceptable to not turn up to see the horse even once a day, especially if they are then uncontactable for the vet and owe farrier fees. I would take some paperwork to them when you go to see them, including one saying what charges you will make if she fails to turn up (perhaps one fee for if arranged, another for if no show no contact), something to make her sign to say she will arrange for her vet to have her credit card no/ a credit account and that should any emergency vet treatment be required you have her permission to call the vet and authorise any appropriate treatment, all at her cost. I;m sure there's more to add, including a detailed contract of livery and in case all the above fails, notice that if she does not comply with X Y and Z you are therefore giving her 1 months notice to be ejected from your yard. Failure to leave will result in pony being sold to recouperate costs.

Its all a pain, which is why I'm sure if you don't already you will now be drawing up fully detailed livery contracts for all your liveries! :)
 
Agree with Naturally give them a chance state what you expect in a letter and if not met notice will be given -send it recorded delivery if you can't physically hand it over.
Really don't think just because they are grass livery and horse is doing ok just on grass and they keep paying their livery means they don't have to come and check horse daily.We have a few liveries like that and tbh I'm sick to death of having to go to YO and say oh their lame,they need feet done could you contact owner.Its not my job or tbh nor YO unless they are paying for this service but any yard I've been on grass livery does not usually give this service unless suppose specifically agreed between YO and owner.
If going to give notice will say don't bluff-know some YO do this say well you have to leave if xyz isn't done then don't follow through if its not.Suprisingly enough the owner never takes any notice
 
The whole thing came about because since depositing pony at yard, owner has been up a grand total of 3 times in 9 months. Sharer asked to buy him and owner came back and said she would not sell as pony wasn’t hers (!!!!!!!!!) FFS!!!! And then came back saying that she had spoken to owner who would only sell for £2k – pony would not pass a vetting, hasn’t been looked at for a year by either ‘owner’ and is not worth more than £600 max (I wouldn’t give you 50p for it personally!)

Owner has now had 2 livery contracts and has not signed or returned either of them. Thankfully, there is a point that states the livery agreement still stands even if it is not signed and returned.

She pays her livery by DD monthly so he is paid for, but abandoned effectively!!

Naturally, the only thing I can think of is charging her for full grass livery, whereby he is checked/fed/rugged/paid for daily? I would at least be happy to do that and make sure the neddy is sorted if she cant be bothered? It still leaves me in a situation whereby I am stuck with a rude bargy pony and a rude owner, but I don’t want to pass on my problems to some other poor unsuspecting YO either….
 
I insist in my contract that the horses are checked daily and if the owner fails to turn up I charge them £3 a day for checking at grass. Over a week that mounts up, over a month it starts to get expensive. I bill a month in advance for the livery and then additional bill for services they have had. If she pays that bill then you have in effect got a horse on full grass livery - doesn't matter how bargy the pony is or how rude the owner is you have accepted that by taking their money. if however you no longer want to put up with rude owner and bargy pony then give them a month's notice to quit and don't worry about where they go.
 
To be honest this sort of situation wouldn't bother me one jot, providing the bills were getting paid.

I would just tell the owner that if she doesn't want to do her own horse then that is fine however you will be charging her for taking care of her horse. If she doesn't like then she can leave.
 
I hate work...I hate work too, and an abandoned horse which doesnt get seem just creates more at the yard. It needs checking/rugs changing/retrieving (horse also has no feeling for electric fencing, and therefore walks through it on a near weekly basis)

Have written her the following email - what do you think?

Dear XXXX

SHARER has told me she has handed her notice in. What is going on with PONY?

Please can you let me know before the 14th April so I know arrangements are in place for his care.

I am happy for him to go on to a full grass livery which will include all hay/hard feed/bringing in for farrier/rug changes/full bring in and groom once a week etc as of April 15th - I will bill you monthly. I can do this for £35 a week (£150 p.c.m) , it will take all the responsibility off of you, and I will be happy that he is being seen to every day. It obviously won’t include worming/farrier or any extras like that, which will be on top.

Also, are you happy for him to be worked on occasion at my discretion by someone capable? As you know, he will balloon out the back, the grass is lush now so heaven knows what it will be like when the spring grass comes through, so it will be good to know that the pony can do something a few times a week to keep the belly at bay, and him fit, ticking over and handled so should you want to come up and ride him you will be in a position too. It will also mean he is handled, loved and groomed which I am sure you will agree is an important part of caring for your horse.

I just don’t want SHARER to stop sharing him and he be left out the back – as I have said before it is not that type of yard, and if you want that option then I am sure other yards will take him.
 
Parkranger said:
At the sort of prices you're charging I'm sure that you'd get someone else in - I'd give her notice....
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Sort of what I thought, but I am loathe to pass the buck to someone else tbh!!! She has already been chucked out of 2 other local yards to my knowledge!!
 
Vicki_Krystal said:
The email is fine apart from the last bit which IMO is rude - they pay the bills on time so not exactly nightmare livery and i wouldnt like to be spoken to like that - email or not.
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What bit? The bit about riding or not wanting him abandoned in my field?
 
I just don’t want SHARER to stop sharing him and he be left out the back – as I have said before it is not that type of yard, and if you want that option then I am sure other yards will take him.
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This bit I suspect.
 
No the bit about other yards taking him - i would have just left it as -

I just don’t want SHARER to stop sharing him and he be left out the back.



Enough said - sometimes being just that little too blunt pushes people over the edge - you do after all want her to get back to you about the pony.
 
cant be bothered to read everything !

If pony is on grass livery and they pay on time i dont see the problem?

also if she doesnt pay and runs up a debt of £1000 then yu can claim the horse as payement and loan him out to someone nice !! sorry i would do this rather than pass him on to yard to yard
 
I have reworded the email to sound less rude and more business like:

Dear XXXX

SHARER has told me she has handed her notice in, so I wondered what arrangements are now going to be made for PONY'S care. Please can you contact me with details of the new arrangements before 14th April.

If you find it difficult to travel to the yard on a regular basis, I am happy for him to go on to a full grass livery which will include all hay/hard feed/bringing in for farrier/rug changes/full bring in and groom once a week etc as of April 15th - I will bill you monthly. I can do this for £35 a week (£150 p.c.m) , it will take all the responsibility off of you, and I will be happy that he is being seen to every day. It obviously won’t include worming/farrier or any extras like that, which will be on top.

I am also concerned that once the grass comes through, he may start to become overweight - so I am happy to arrange for a capable person to exercise him to keep him in a healthy condition.

If you are unable to get to the yard every day to care for PONY yourself, and do not wish to take up the option of full grass livery, I am afraid that I will have to ask you to find an alternative yard for PONY.
 
Ah TGM you done this before??lol.
Will say TGM does read better tho I too tend to be blunt esp after niceness has failed to get a response.
All very well saying keep horse in payment but if as you say horse has back problems and worth very little really not worth it.And I don't mean that in a nasty way,Its all very well saying keep it but OP is running a business and if heaps of owners did this to YO's they would land up looking after a pile of horses at cost to themselves and unable to give them away through somebody elses fault plus horses taking the space of paying clients.
It really annoys me the way some owners shirk their responsiibility to their animals.Yes we all get hard times emotional or financial but end of day horse has needs.
Hopefully they will take you up on your offer of full grass livery sounds the perfect option for them if they are willing to pay.
 
Letter done by TGM is exactly what I would send. You have offered full livery and it is up to them to either (a) put them on full livery or (b) take correct care of pony themselves.

If they choose to do (b) and fail to look after pony correctly, then hand them notice to quit.

You are kind enough to offer to look after the pony correctly but you are not a charity. It is such a shame that welfare can't step in before the poor pony is put somewhere that it will be huge and with bad feet, but again harsh though it may sound, it is not your responsbility as the owner does not want to sell or loan and the ownership of said pony sounds very odd.
 
Theresa_F said:
Letter done by TGM is exactly what I would send. You have offered full livery and it is up to them to either (a) put them on full livery or (b) take correct care of pony themselves.

If they choose to do (b) and fail to look after pony correctly, then hand them notice to quit.

You are kind enough to offer to look after the pony correctly but you are not a charity. It is such a shame that welfare can't step in before the poor pony is put somewhere that it will be huge and with bad feet, but again harsh though it may sound, it is not your responsbility as the owner does not want to sell or loan and the ownership of said pony sounds very odd.
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Yep, agreed – I have said she can have the whole pony done (including shoes/wormer) for £40 a week, personally I think she is getting a bit of a deal, however my friend thinks I am charging over the odds!!!!
 
I think you have been very good up til now and very diplomatic. It's not just about flinging a horse in a field and as long as the livery is paid then fair enough. Sounds like a fair price for what you are offering, i think you are handling it really well with the e-mail.
 
As whoever it is that hasnt been up in however long isnt actually the owner, could you not get contact details for the person who DOES actually own the pony, explain situation and problems, and maybe they will be willing to try and sort pony out a bit so he can have another sharer???
 
lexiedhb said:
As whoever it is that hasnt been up in however long isnt actually the owner, could you not get contact details for the person who DOES actually own the pony, explain situation and problems, and maybe they will be willing to try and sort pony out a bit so he can have another sharer???
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It has only come to light recently thats the case but I could give it a go....however the pony has a bad back and is currenly unrideable (something else discovered by long suffering loaner to her expense - whilst 'owner' already knew)
 
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