no bute

[aran]

Hello
i am thinking of putting aran on some no bute. does anyone use it and do you think that it works? which brands do you rate? there seem to be loads of different types!
thank you for your advice

 

[Pasha]

NO BUTE (Equine Health & Herbal) is fantastic stuff!!!! My old boy has a bit of arthritus in his hocks and injured his knee in the field last Feb - I put him on NO BUTE one day (after trying Cortaflex, 5* Superflex etc for months) and the next day he was springing around the school like a 5 year old - my instructor says he's really free moving for a veteran ans touch wood since he has been on it (2 months) we have not had one stiff or unlevel day. I highly recommend!

BTW it also cleared up a bit of dry flaky skin he had

 

[johnsongreyhorse]

I found that bute free liquid was good - I ordered direct from Gold Label

 

[aran]

thank you for your replies - its really hard to decide which products to go for. i'm amazed that the no bute worked so fast - how expensive have you found it?

 

[JanetGeorge]

Why?

I don't use it because IF a horse needs bute, I use that - or usually Danilon which is kinder to the stomach. The 'no bute' supplements are often not safer (nor as effective) as bute - and haven't been properly tested. Some contain ingredients that MAY be harmful in some classes of horse (eg in-foal mares.)

But you need to look at WHY a horse may need bute or no-bute. Maybe something else would be better (and safer!)

 

[aran]

i have a horse with bone spavin (2/10th on a bad day LH) - he is 8 and we have done everything for him (i am very qualified in arthritis - so please believe me on this!)
we have decided (me and the vet) that i have a number of options:
PTS - not going to happen - he is a very happy, content little chap and is not in discomfort - he's as happy to charge about on a bad day as a good and the vet is confident that his quality of life is very high.
Retire - he's not doing too well on full-retirement. The race horse in him has emerged and as he's not being occupied he's getting into mischief
Bring back into light work (hacking) - hopefully this may help his spavin as building up the muscle can support the joint and improve his extension in the LH. I've been told just to start getting on again - therefore I'd like to try a no bute supplement to see if this will help him. i can put him on bute if i want however i'd rather try a no bute first. i'm more than aware that they are neurosceuticals and so have not been put through all the rigors that licenced drugs have. however the damage to the GI tract will be reduced using a no bute long term compared with bute and as he's 8 i feel it is worth a try.

 

[puddicat]

It aint going to work - you of all people must know this! Talk to one of your colleagues who knows about nociception - if there was anything that had a similar effect to bute the drug companies would be well on the case. I think JanetGeorge speaks a lot of sense. There is no reason why so called 'natural' products should be easy on the gut, or be free of compounds that could accumulate in the liver and cause damage. You also know that no amount of people telling you they thought it worked for them provides any objective basis for believing it does. So if you use it, do it in the knowledge that you may be doing more harm than good and it would be impossible tell which was the case. That's called russian roulette isn't it?

 

[aran]

there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that herbal products such as devils claw/willow bark etc do reduce pain (its where a lot of the pharmaceutical drugs have there origin too) - I know its only anecdotal.
safety - as with any herbal product (but to be fair the quantities are so low the problem is minimal)
efficacy - probably they don't work - but I'd like to try before bute

bute (PBZ) - I'm not keen. we only use it as it is widely available and cheap. it has irritating perivascular effects so isn't good iv, safety margin is tight therefore knowing weight accurately is important (the toxic effects are additive too), local toxicosis leads to ulceration when given orally, it decreases proteoglycan synthesis (in vitro) - not what you want at all for OA sufferers! post-mortem horses on long term high bute show GI ulceration, renal papillary necrosis and vascular thrombosis. this means I'd rather use it when I really have to - not just yet (I think I'll use carpofen anyway if I have to as its just all round better!)

to be far I'm only doing this for me - he's fine/happy/perky and charging about - but I'm supposed to get on and get it fit. apparently the majority of riders cannot feel 2/10th lame behind (esp when it is mechanical rather than pain driven), however I can and I don't think I can make him work properly when I can feel his slightly shortened stride - ahhh - it all comes down to my mental struggle as to whether I should be working him or not. but I've been told by the best to get it fit so we shall give it a go!

 

[puddicat]

Have you thought about glucosamine/chondroitin containing products? There seems to be an accumulating evidence that they have some beneficial effect.