"No hoof tappers or timewasters" - what does this mean, exactly?

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 February 2009
Messages
11,487
Location
Slopping along on a loose rein somewhere in Devon
Visit site
Have seen this on a few "for sale" adverts recently, but wonder what it means TBH!!

If I as a potential purchaser go to see a horse, the first thing I'm interested in is its feet! "No foot no 'oss" is the old saying, and too blimmin right, that's still as true now as it always was.

So before I see it ridden or anything else, it is the feet I am interested in! I want to take a good look, see how the horse is standing, and whether there's any unbalance in any foot or anything suspect going on. I will be looking for any hoof defects and/or telltale lines which might indicate laminitis. Bad shoeing may indicate that it is tricky to shoe to my suspicious midn, as it might be a case of the farrier having to slap the shoes on pretty damn quick while the going's good!

I will then ask the owner/seller if they would please go round and pick up the feet (that way if it doesn't like the idea then they'll get kicked & not me!) - also I'll get to see whether it picks its feet up politely for its owner, or whether that is an issue. Then if all is OK, I'll go round and have a look myself, pick up each foot and have a look for myself, looking to see if there's any wear on any particular shoe, how the foot in general looks, whether there's any heat etc. If there's a hoofpick around I'd have a quick tap on each shoe to see how the horse might react to being shod.

Then I'll work my way up the leg to see if there are any lumps or bumps like splints or anything nasty going on.

After this I'd ask for the horse to be trotted up in hand so I could see how it moves.

So does this make me a "hoof tapper"???

And if I like the horse and ask for a second viewing on another day, does this make me a "timewaster"???

Some sellers seem to be wanting to put people off!!
 
Last edited:
I ignore adverts with those phrases. Can't be bothered with inhospitable and/or unreasonable sellers. Plus it makes me suspect that they know there's something wrong with the horse and just want rid of it quickly!
 
FrankieCob said:
hoof tapper is a play on tyre kicker. It just means no timewasters
Click to expand...

Mmmm, yep, but how do you define a "timewaster"?? That's the thing that I'm mega curious about!! I am a cautious prospective buyer in that I don't take anything for granted and always like to check things for myself, because hey, its not just my money I'm spending its also my neck I could be risking!

I would always ask for a second viewing, just to see if the horse was consistent on another day. But mebbe this is "timewasting" behaviour?? Oh I dunno..........
 
My interpretation of it is someone who has made endless requests for photos videos and information only to phone up make an appointment to view then dissappear from the face of the earth never to be seen or heard from again. usually without even a thanks but no thanks. Or a joy rider looking for a free lesson or hack. Yes it does happen.
I too am a foot person I think feet and legs are the most important bit. I have recently been viewing ponies for a friend and it is amazing how many rang bells before she even sat on them. Still we found a lovely boy and she is delighted with him
 
I have been refused a viewing for a horse which was a fair distance, apparently I asked too many questions, still not sure about that one, but I would always ask if the horse is sound in wind and limb and that it is open to a five stage vetting if the horse is not near me.
 
i was only allowed to see one horse if i agreed to buy it over the phone, pointed out that i wouldn't buy without seeing it (not even a photo) and was told i was a time waster................everyone has there own definition.................never did get to see the horse
 
hollyandivy123 said:
i was only allowed to see one horse if i agreed to buy it over the phone, pointed out that i wouldn't buy without seeing it (not even a photo) and was told i was a time waster................everyone has there own definition.................never did get to see the horse
Click to expand...

Such a horse might not even exist!
There are plenty of scammers out there.
 
I recently sold my best friend of 9 years and had quite a few time wasters which made a heartbreaking sale evenue harder. By time wasters I quote after they have seen him 'I'm not in a position to buy he just sounded lovely and I was intrigued'!!!

So maybe the seller is trying to avoid these kind of people....
 
As a buyer I would never ask for a second viewing - I would be too worried that the horse would be snapped up by someone else if I dithered. As a seller I would never put a prospective purchaser off whilst waiting for someone to come for a second time.
I've bought a few unseen on the strength of photos and a vetting. If I love something enough to really want to buy it I don't want to miss out if someone snaps it up first!
 
minesadouble said:
As a buyer I would never ask for a second viewing - I would be too worried that the horse would be snapped up by someone else if I dithered. As a seller I would never put a prospective purchaser off whilst waiting for someone to come for a second time.
I've bought a few unseen on the strength of photos and a vetting. If I love something enough to really want to buy it I don't want to miss out if someone snaps it up first!
Click to expand...

As a fairly regular seller I always encourage a second viewing IF I feel it is the right home and will wait for a day or two if they seem genuine and ideal for the horse, it has rarely backfired on me as the buyers appreciate it is not always easy to wait, the few times I have got into bidding wars, people trying to push in etc have been when the sales have gone wrong for various reasons.

I think by now I am a fairly good judge of character and if I am happy with the potential buyers I will wait, to me even selling liveries the home is the priority not getting the cash, it is possibly not the best way to do business but having sold many horses over many years it works for me and I have had people come back to me again, I am not a dealer in the true sense but have sold up to 15 or so some years, mainly sales liveries, I have only encountered 1 or 2 "timewasters", they usually get sussed out on the phone and never get here to waste my time.
I try and get the advert as clear as possible so the horse is as described, it will certainly never be a hand smaller/ bigger or a different age, if I say it can jump it will, if it has competed there will be evidence, if it hacks alone they can try it hacking alone without fear of it napping, most "timewasters" are not wasting the time of the seller but wasting their own by turning up to see horses that are not as described by the seller, sometimes through ignorance, sometimes because they are trying to deceive.
 
hollyandivy123 said:
i was only allowed to see one horse if i agreed to buy it over the phone, pointed out that i wouldn't buy without seeing it (not even a photo) and was told i was a time waster................everyone has there own definition.................never did get to see the horse
Click to expand...

Lol that is crazy!

FfionWinnie said:
I should think if you have to ask the question perhaps you are one ;)
Click to expand...

Not fair. So often I think the ads that say no timewasters are placed by people who are either a pain to deal with, haven't advertised the horse honestly or are being unfair to potential purchasers who just decided the horse wasn't for them.
 
I wouldn't call checking the horses legs and hooves a "hoof kicker" you are just using knowledge and sense to make sure the horse is healthy. My horse had surface cracks in his hooves hence why some people didn't buy him and told the owner he was over priced because they thought it would turn out worse. My vet agreed with me that it was just cosmetic damage basically and with time they would get better and they did so we got him cheaper for that. Obviously if it had been worse I wouldn't have but it was obvious it was just caused by dry weather and no care.

I did feel sorry for one person who turned him down because of his hooves and bought a mare who ended up with such bad laminitis in all 4 hooves she got put down. Was such a shame as she was a lovely mare.
 
Well I am very upfront about what I expect when I go looking for a horse. I always ask loads of questions by email so I have a copy of the reply. when I make an appointment to view I say I am coming on my own and what I would like to do eg see it tacked up,see it ridden, ride in an arena and then take for a short hack if I still think it's suitable and I always tell the owner if I like the horse and think it's suitable I'd like to come back with my trainer and go through the process again but the trainer will ride. If they are not OK with that, I don't go to view the horse. I have gone to view a couple of horses and not even asked for them to be tacked up, one was miles bigger than advertised, the other was lame having lost a shoe but the owner hadn't noticed (not a cheap horse either). If people think I'm a time waster or tyre kicker, so be it but I'm usually buying at the more expensive end of the market from people who know what they are doing and once I have an offer accepted I think I'm a nice person to deal with. I have never not turned up to a viewing or said I'd buy a horse then changed my mind, these are the time wasters in my view.
 
I always assume people are a bit novice if they want a second viewing/to come back with an instructor etc. If the horse has done what it's been advertised it can do the first time, then I think if you're generally a pretty experienced person then you should be able to deal with whatever else might follow.
 
To my mind a timewaster is a 'joyrider' - Sunday, nothing planned, lets go and find a horse to ride......
But saying that, I dont really believe anyone IS a timewaster, because if they dont buy, even if they have no intention of buying, they might tell someone else.....and that person might buy.
 
SpringArising said:
I always assume people are a bit novice if they want a second viewing/to come back with an instructor etc. If the horse has done what it's been advertised it can do the first time, then I think if you're generally a pretty experienced person then you should be able to deal with whatever else might follow.
Click to expand...

I have bought all but 2 horses on first viewing but the last 2 riding horses, I had 2 viewings each. Both were private sellers who were !looking for good family homes for their horses, we keep our horses at home, sellers liked the sound of our setup and were prepared to wait. The ID, I wanted to hack on the road but it was far too busy to be safe IMO on the Saturday, so I went back on the Sunday when the A road outside the yard was a bit quieter. The Draft horse, the weather was so icy that all riding was very limited, so went back the next week.
 
It means if you don't accept everything they say about the horse...and you don't buy it....then they will become abusive!
 
I guess it depends on what you are selling/buying but I have no problem in people thinking I'm a bit of a novice It's the ones who think they are experienced when they aren't that really worry me.
SpringArising said:
I always assume people are a bit novice if they want a second viewing/to come back with an instructor etc. If the horse has done what it's been advertised it can do the first time, then I think if you're generally a pretty experienced person then you should be able to deal with whatever else might follow.
Click to expand...
 
oldie48 said:
I guess it depends on what you are selling/buying but I have no problem in people thinking I'm a bit of a novice It's the ones who think they are experienced when they aren't that really worry me.
Click to expand...

If I was selling a supposed schoolmaster or a confidence giver/pony for a child then I'd feel differently and wouldn't have a problem with multiple visits. But I'm usually selling young horses or quirky ones so to me a second viewing seems a bit pointless. If you're wanting to buy a green horse then trying to make sure it's perfect is a bit worrying to me!

The more difficult ones always seem to attract the most novices for some reason. A few years ago I was selling a typical Welsh Cob. Fantastic in traffic but pretty much a Jekyll and Hyde in every other way. Put in the ad not for a novice, needs a confident rider, can buck etc. Some of the people who came to look could barely rise to the trot! Then I had another lady ask if she bought him would I carry on riding him for her because she's not sure she's experienced enough. Those are the people who really annoy me and who I class as time wasters.

Different horse, six year old green mare. Very sweet but a worrier and panicked. Had a lady come and I was genuinely worried watching her ride - she was so rigid and tense I thought she was going to come off!
 
SpringArising said:
If I was selling a supposed schoolmaster or a confidence giver/pony for a child then I'd feel differently and wouldn't have a problem with multiple visits. But I'm usually selling young horses or quirky ones so to me a second viewing seems a bit pointless. If you're wanting to buy a green horse then trying to make sure it's perfect is a bit worrying to me!

The more difficult ones always seem to attract the most novices for some reason. A few years ago I was selling a typical Welsh Cob. Fantastic in traffic but pretty much a Jekyll and Hyde in every other way. Put in the ad not for a novice, needs a confident rider, can buck etc. Some of the people who came to look could barely rise to the trot! Then I had another lady ask if she bought him would I carry on riding him for her because she's not sure she's experienced enough. Those are the people who really annoy me and who I class as time wasters.

Different horse, six year old green mare. Very sweet but a worrier and panicked. Had a lady come and I was genuinely worried watching her ride - she was so rigid and tense I thought she was going to come off!
Click to expand...

The people you describe should not have come to try the quirky horses, I can nearly always find out enough to stop them coming along, a few basic questions allow you to screen potential buyers so no one wastes their time, I sell schoolmasters and also a few more quirky types and have never had anyone turn up that couldn't even rise to the trot.
I did allow a novice rider come to try one horse as he seemed to have an experienced OH to offer support but after seeing her ride I tactfully suggested a few more lessons for them both, the less experienced half of the partnership was actually more competent, I did not count him as a timewaster as the horse was almost right for the job it was his OH that had less experience than I had expected but I had not spoken to her prior to the viewing, my mistake completely.

I am happy with second viewings, at times even more, it is not always because someone is novice it is often because they have been caught out previously and want to find out as much as possible before committing, I want mine to go to the best home possible and a second try can often give me the chance to ensure the partnership will work.
 
You wouldn't get me looking at your horses, I don't do "green" "quirky" or "bucky", far too old and confidence much too fragile. There's been lots of threads on here trying to define what a "novice" is, to me it's someone that wants something straightforward, that has a good temperament and is fairly established. Mr B and I are improving our canter half pass and flying changes ATM but I'm only able to do that because he has none of the characteristics that I try to avoid and he is forgiving when I make a mistake. Probably the main reason that I like my trainer to ride a potential purchase is that when I ride in a viewing I don't put the "pressure" on that my trainer will and it's interesting to see how many horses will go quite sweetly when not being asked to do much but become rather different when politely asked to get their arse in gear and work.
SpringArising said:
The more difficult ones always seem to attract the most novices for some reason. A few years ago I was selling a typical Welsh Cob. Fantastic in traffic but pretty much a Jekyll and Hyde in every other way. Put in the ad not for a novice, needs a confident rider, can buck etc. Some of the people who came to look could barely rise to the trot! Then I had another lady ask if she bought him would I carry on riding him for her because she's not sure she's experienced enough. Those are the people who really annoy me and who I class as time wasters.

Different horse, six year old green mare. Very sweet but a worrier and panicked. Had a lady come and I was genuinely worried watching her ride - she was so rigid and tense I thought she was going to come off!
Click to expand...
 
Time wasters often equate to photo/video collectors. I have recently seen people advertising with a couple of photos and a note saying no more will be available. That makes perfect sense to me. Either you are genuinely interested in which case make an appointment and go and see for yourself, don't expect any more photos - it takes time to set up and photograph. It you can't be bothered to view after reading an ad and looking at a photo then the horse probably isn't what you're looking for. No point thinking that another photo/video will cause you to like the horse better - it won't but it will take time for the vendor to respond!
 
gallopingby said:
Time wasters often equate to photo/video collectors. I have recently seen people advertising with a couple of photos and a note saying no more will be available. That makes perfect sense to me. Either you are genuinely interested in which case make an appointment and go and see for yourself, don't expect any more photos - it takes time to set up and photograph. It you can't be bothered to view after reading an ad and looking at a photo then the horse probably isn't what you're looking for. No point thinking that another photo/video will cause you to like the horse better - it won't but it will take time for the vendor to respond!
Click to expand...

Surely that depends on whether the photos are actually showing the horse properly, a good jumping shot or head over the stable door may not show an obvious fault that a side on shot would, also the distance someone may be traveling to view, they often ask for a video to see how a horse moves/ jumps if they want a dressage horse it is no use seeing it jump or just flatwork for a horse to a jumping home.

I have looked at numerous videos, some on sites where the sellers should be able to do a simple walk, trot canter on each rein and pop over a jump or two, yet they show it being groomed, tacked up, mounted, all very well but then fail to show any canter or just show trot on one rein, are they being dim or covering up issues in the hope that people will come along anyway, I have no idea but it is no big deal to get a short, appropriate, video to send to people, it may waste a bit of my time but far better than a buyer turning up taking one look and deciding the horse is unsuitable for a reason that would have been obvious on a video or in a decent photo.

It may not make the buyers like the horse more but it can save a wasted journey.
 
I got accused of being a time waster once... And I made an offer on her horse which was greener than she'd advertised - 'twas a nice beast but was worth less to me than the advertised price so I made an offer accordingly (about 10% less than the asking price) she had a hissy fit and called me a time waster and if I wasn't serious about buying her horse I shouldn't' have come (180 miles btw) ... When she phoned 2 days later to accept my offer I told her thanks but no thanks - could you imagine what would have happened if it failed the vet.

Moral to this story - there are mental people out there beware.

There are also sane people out there too tho so don't give up!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top