No wonder Insurance premiums are goiung up!

[EAST KENT]

Got a phone call the other day about a rescue bull terrier I had rehomed some four years ago;he had cracked an upper canine.The owner was asking if the breed suffered bad reactions to anaesthetics,as "he nearly died last time,and the dental work needs completing". It turns out the dog is having root canal fillings etc at the cost of some thousands,not having the canine removed.WHY? "Oh it is all on insurance". Bloody ridiculous in my opinion and a waste of money.The vet gave the usual frighteners about "removing a tooth is so dangerous..it may rupture the roof of his mouth" Please! I think that the insurance companies should force vets to give prices on treatments available and choose a sensible economic measure.Now that insurance picks up the tab there seems to be a new culture of pride in how much vet costs your dog can run up.It makes those of us who only claim on stuff like fractures a tad angry.
This poor dog will probably manage to die on the next attempt to do his cosmetic dental work,and no doubt his owner will take great pride in how he "tried everything cos we love him so much" URRGGHHH.

 

[s4sugar]

Cruel ******ds. The vet wants shooting as the pain involved must be horrendous and it is about time that estimates had to be submitted to insurance companies for non emergency treatment.

 

[CAYLA]

Could they be advised to seek a second opinion?

 

[Cinnamontoast]

That is the maddest thing I've heard for some time. Root canal? Poor bloody dog.

 

[lurcher98]

My insurance will only cover emergency dental treatment. I wonder how they got round that

 

[MurphysMinder]

Crazy! If they are worried about the dog under GA you would have thought it would be far preferable to be under for a short time to remove the tooth rather than a lengthy op for root canal work. Our old Lancashire heeler had several teeth removed, maybe we should have gone for root canal work and maybe crowns instead.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

It annoys me that the vets 1st question (almost without exception) is ..........Is he/she insured?

To my mind the vet should be offering the most appropriate treatment (not the most expensive, due to it being under insurance).

 

[EAST KENT]

Owner seemed quite shocked when I said just take it out,there is this peculiar pride in how much they get their insurance company to fork out to demonstrate their superior "love" for that animal.
Thank God my vets are practicle and sensible.The other day they had someone in for an elective caeser on a French bulldog..ten puppies,all blues or blue pieds(the latest money spinner in that breed) one had a hare-lip and the greedy owner wanted it repaired ..she had a buyer..never mind the pain it would cause the puppy.She was told in no uncertain terms how greedy and inhumane that idea was. It does`nt go down very well to boast how much they would sell for at the vets ..these would apparently fetch £3,500 EACH. Me,I would have made that op London prices.
Back to the bull terrier..owner said he was`nt asking my opinion on treatment..just if bullies reacted badly to anaesthetic.Unbloodybelievable.

 

[s4sugar]

I assume the vet was too busy making money to bother looking up the muscle to fat ratio of a bully which affects the anaesthetic dosage used?

 

[Kc Mac]

Would like to say I'm shocked but after taking my lame dog to the vets (anti inflames and rest and dog still lame) he suggested X-rays may not show everything so should opt for the MRI

I've seen a McTimony chiropractor and dog is on the mend at a fraction of the cost to me, not my insurance

It does bug me that people seem to view insurance as a ticket to the most expensive ops/treatments, not always in the best interest of the dog as OP

 

[EAST KENT]

Exactly my point!

 

[SusieT]

I'm guessing the tooth will require a prolonged extraction. Just because you fancy paying as little as possible for the quickest cure doesn't make it the right one. Neither is the most expensive treatment always the right one. The owner and vet dealing with the condition know most about it so are in the best place to assess the correct way forward.

 

[Dobiegirl]

I'm guessing the tooth will require a prolonged extraction. Just because you fancy paying as little as possible for the quickest cure doesn't make it the right one. Neither is the most expensive treatment always the right one. The owner and vet dealing with the condition know most about it so are in the best place to assess the correct way forward.

Thats just it though you are guessing.

 

[SusieT]

Yes, as is everyone else who is judging the vets motives without seeing the dog and tooth in question..

 

[s4sugar]

Yes, as is everyone else who is judging the vets motives without seeing the dog and tooth in question..

Have you ever had root canal treatment? It Hurts! The pain lasts for days if not weeks and often the tooth needs extracting later.
Dogs are fine if a canine tooth gets extracted and the dog won't be worried by it's appearance in a mirror.
This is a cosmetic operation, root canal work on a dog always is.

 

[Archiepoo]

i think youve hit the nail on the head there it is a cosmetic procedure, the dog will LOOK better with both canines intact, there arnt thinking of whats best for the dog they are being driven by vanity

 

[SusieT]

I'm personally of the opinon an extraction of a canine that is still deeply rooted will be at least as painful as a root canal. From, personal experience, a root canal is painful at the time (and we're not under GA) but I wasn't painful for days, maybe I just had a better dentist. My point is it's not up to us to decide the best treatment without seeing dog/problem.

 

[paulineh]

When I asked my insurance company why my premiums had gone up so much,even though I had not put in a claim, I was told that there was an increase in claims in general and as it all came from a pool of money that pool had to be filled.

My dogs premiums are £700 a year, up from about £350 a year. I do have 3 ongoing claims and as they are for life I will continue claiming.

If my vets had not been persistent I would not have found out what was wrong with my lad.

I know have a happy healthy boy, who at the age of 11 is running around lik a 2 year old.

But I do agree that some vets would push for expensive investigations and tests, but we seem to live in a world where we want the best for our pets what ever the costs and that cost comes from an insurance company.

 

[EAST KENT]

Not for a minute desputing essential investigation work,but cosmetic surgery on a dog who "nearly died" after it`s last anaesthetic to my mind would be best served by a very fast tooth extraction.A root canel on a canine probably won`t be a permanent solution in any case.Dogs chew sticks/bones..we do not.

 

[Alec Swan]

I'm guessing the tooth will require a prolonged extraction. Just because you fancy paying as little as possible for the quickest cure doesn't make it the right one. Neither is the most expensive treatment always the right one. The owner and vet dealing with the condition know most about it so are in the best place to assess the correct way forward.

If you honestly put your trust in vets, and expect them to take the most expeditious route, when the insurance company can be milked for thousands, then you either know some highly ethical vets, or you're living in a dream world. I suspect the latter.

My now deceased MIL had a collie bitch which was in a bad way. My OH took the dog into the vet's and the first question asked was, "Is the dog insured". When they were told that it was, the next question was to the limit. THEN, they said that they'd need to take a biopsy of what would have been obvious to an idiot was a monstrous and attached and cancerous swelling, but then said that a second biopsy may be necessary, to which my OH said, "That should neatly use up the £2k available", to which the vet said "Probably".

E_K, I'm with you. The removal of a canine is a relatively simple procedure, but not such an earner for the vet, is it?

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

When I asked my insurance company why my premiums had gone up so much,even though I had not put in a claim, .......

........ .......what ever the costs and that cost comes from an insurance company.

Not so, re-read your first paragraph, that cost comes from us.

Alec.

 

[twiglet84]

I cant see how you can judge the whole profession because of a few bad experiences. I suggest if you feel that way you change vets!

Animals needs and welfare always come first but we have an obligation to advise of all options, and clients will make choices that i wouldnt necessarily choose with my own pet but thats not my choice to make, we can only guide.

We have a policy of giving all clients estimates for any surgery/procedures, whether they are insured or not the price wont change.

There is an issue with cost in cases and therefore we have to do less than what we would want if the pet isnt insured, for instance with pre-anaesthetic blood screening. I wouldnt put my pet under a G.A without one and never have, doesnt mean we rip the clients off that have one because they are insured and we cant do them for the pets that arent if the owners cant afford it. Or another example like sending a sample for histo. Insurance means we can do a better job in some cases not rip people off. Or procedures like aural haematomas, people with low funds would try having it drained and injected with depo which we know is unlikely to work but they dont wanna fork out for sx. If the pet is insured and we can go straight to surgery does that mean we are ripping them off????

 

[Alec Swan]

Would I be right, twiglet84, in assuming that you are a vet?

Alec.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I discovered my mate uses the same vet as me yesterday. She loves the owner of the practice, me too, but I think he goes straight for the most expensive option whereas is new employee goes for the conservative, cheaper option which often resolves the problem.

The owner decided Bear needed an x ray for a very swollen leg. I reckoned it was an infection where he'd chewed his damaged dew claw. The vet reckoned broken leg (despite me saying he'd been cage rested). I was unhappy for him to have a GA which I felt was unnecessary. Guess what? It was an infection.

Think Twiglet is a vet nurse?

 

[EAST KENT]

Never mind Twiglet being a vet nurse, I was, and since then have known vets various on a more intimate level maybe than the general public,insurance is almost always a ticket to "do the very best" for the animal.If "the very best " is expensive ..to Hell with it,the Insurance Company WILL pay.
In fact one vet I know,if questioned as to procedures being necessary by the company assessor ,always booms down the phone " And you,did YOU do five years study to be able to question ME". That is Gospel.
Vet work is a business,if there is a gravy train they will take advantage of it.Sometimes ,when an animal clearly needs euthanasia ,the tests they will run are so wrong.In most cases it will merely show WHY and HOW the poor sod is dying,far better to end it quickly in my opinion.
In the original case a poor anaesthetic risk is being made to endure a cosmetic procedure ,when a quick op to remove the tooth would be safer and kinder.The owner is at fault,and the vet is a money grabber.I fully expect this dog to die because of it.

 

[s4sugar]

Never mind Twiglet being a vet nurse, I was, and since then have known vets various on a more intimate level maybe than the general public,insurance is almost always a ticket to "do the very best" for the animal.If "the very best " is expensive ..to Hell with it,the Insurance Company WILL pay.
In fact one vet I know,if questioned as to procedures being necessary by the company assessor ,always booms down the phone " And you,did YOU do five years study to be able to question ME". That is Gospel.
Vet work is a business,if there is a gravy train they will take advantage of it.Sometimes ,when an animal clearly needs euthanasia ,the tests they will run are so wrong.In most cases it will merely show WHY and HOW the poor sod is dying,far better to end it quickly in my opinion.
In the original case a poor anaesthetic risk is being made to endure a cosmetic procedure ,when a quick op to remove the tooth would be safer and kinder.The owner is at fault,and the vet is a money grabber.I fully expect this dog to die because of it.

Well said - if you know an animal is on the way out the extra time & stress of taking bloods just prolongs suffering.
In the OP this is a clear case of for the owner or for the vet and not for the dog.

 

[MurphysMinder]

With regard to the "cosmetic" nature of the operation. When my old GSD had an eye removed due to a tumour, the vet did mention as an after thought that it was possible to have a prosthetic eye fitted but it would be purely cosmetic for my benefit, and he doubted the insurance company would pay for it because of this. Even if the insurance had paid I wouldn't have had it done, her one eyed warrior look gave her character.

 

[samisheen]

I dont often post but feel i must as my dog damaged one of his canine teeth, after consultation with the dental specialist and lots of research root canal was done. It cost £580 not thousands. The reason vets dont just happily remove the canine teeth is because it's not that simple. The root of the canine tooth goes into the gum then bends and goes right up to pretty much the back of the mouth. The operation for this and the pain is a lot worse than the root canal. It was a day visit for the dog then home, by the next day he was back to his happy self.
I was more than happy with the decision as the vet took time to explain both the options and the procedures.

 

[Kaylum]

Mine had a canine removed. They dont like doing it due to risk of infection. Cost me about £300 with a full dental mouth clean etc and it wasnt covered by the insurance due to preventative measures, although she was 12.

 

[twiglet84]

Yes a vet nurse of 10 years and I seriously think you need to change vets if that's how u feel. I know how we work, we are not money grabbers, patient comes first in all cases but owners are given all options and prognosis for each given. Never referred any dogs for root canal treatment always just remove fractured canines. U can't knock a whole profession! and for those nurses working with money grabbing vets get another job in a clinic that isn't as it only reflects badly on you!!!