No wonder people are giving horses away!!!

_GG_

_GG_

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I have a new livery coming soon and it's because he has been up for sale for months, but to no avail.

Apparently, perfect horses exist, horses that tick every box or at least appear to, that have no issues or vices or problems as it seems that an ex riding school horse with the best ground manners, great all rounder, brilliant character advertised at a very reasonable price are just not good enough. Honestly, great jumping and flatwork pictures, loads of glowing recommendations and nothing. The sellers are very honest and say he can't go out with mares doesn't like horses getting too close out hacking. He doesn't kick out and all he does with mares is get a little excited, never nasty.

We are in a situation where people left, right and centre are buying horses, then running into problems and blaming it all on dishonest sellers. That blame is justified...there are a lot of dishonest sellers out there, but I can't help thinking that if people heard a few points like the horse above has and decided to give it a chance, look at the 99% positives and realise that horses aren't machines, there would be a lot less frustrated buyers out there and a lot more good horses getting the homes they deserve.

This is a horse that I would happily put Dan on, a total beginner, only sat on a horse twice since he was 6. A horse you can literally dress up like a Christmas tree and he'll enjoy every second of it.

I have today, seen no less than 12 posts on facebook about people angry at having been lied to and bought a horse only to find out soon after that nothing was true and here is a horse with years of known and provable history, a wonderful temperament and a great ride and he's being passed over for two issues that are easily managed and totally predictable, unlike the many issues disappointed buyers are left to deal with.

So...if you were buying a horse, what would you prefer...a known and proven history of a good horse with the issues above, or a horse that appears perfect in every way, with no proven history or recommendations?

Genuine question? It seems that there are so many dishonest sellers, I'm wondering why so many buyers still fall for the same stories and believe that there are 100% perfect horses everywhere??

Sorry, a slight rant in this I know, but I would always go for a horse that I could check the history of than buy an unknown.
 
WHAT a good question GG!

Of course, logically the right answer is that the horse you describe id going to be a far better bet than something you buy out of a dealer's yard after it has been there 2 weeks… but when I think about it, when I was looking for Bilbo I passed over horses with the same kind of description as your livery (also because I am worried that a horse in a r/s may not behave well in a private home, have had some experience of that)… and I ended up taking quite a chance on him, as the seller had had him only a few months to produce for sale (I bought him in Jan so was lucky he didn't turn out to be a head shaker!)

But now that I reflect, although I love him to bits and often describe him as perfect. When he arrived he had lice (wouldn't have bought him if i had known that, so glad I didn't). He can't be left in the field on his own, he can't be left in his stable if his field mates are both out. He is prone to itchy skin conditions and infections in his hoof. All of this, had I known it, would probably have caused me to overlook him in favour of something that 'might' not have those drawbacks - and yet I would not part with him for the world!

It may just be me, but I suspect we humans are often irrational like this.
 
Tobiano said:
WHAT a good question GG!

Of course, logically the right answer is that the horse you describe id going to be a far better bet than something you buy out of a dealer's yard after it has been there 2 weeks… but when I think about it, when I was looking for Bilbo I passed over horses with the same kind of description as your livery (also because I am worried that a horse in a r/s may not behave well in a private home, have had some experience of that)… and I ended up taking quite a chance on him, as the seller had had him only a few months to produce for sale (I bought him in Jan so was lucky he didn't turn out to be a head shaker!)

But now that I reflect, although I love him to bits and often describe him as perfect. When he arrived he had lice (wouldn't have bought him if i had known that, so glad I didn't). He can't be left in the field on his own, he can't be left in his stable if his field mates are both out. He is prone to itchy skin conditions and infections in his hoof. All of this, had I known it, would probably have caused me to overlook him in favour of something that 'might' not have those drawbacks - and yet I would not part with him for the world!

It may just be me, but I suspect we humans are often irrational like this.
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I didn't want to put too much of a description for fear of being accused of advertising...I am not, he is coming here on livery so not for sale any more - but he hasn't been used in a riding school for 8 years! I've known him on a small livery yard, used to school him and he'd easily get back up to competing Elementary, possibly Medium again as it's all there, he's just rusty. He's honestly fab. Ask for leg yield in canter and you can put the leg on to ask, then go neutral and he will remain in the leg yield until you direct him otherwise. Ask him for canter half pass and same again, after I'd been schooling for a few months, he started getting it all back. I've known him on large livery yards, really busy and the last 2 years, he has been at a private home with one other horse, turned out 24/7 with a 24 yo mare no problems. He's only had excitement over a mare on the large yard. He'll happily stand in a stable when others are out, he doesn't care about that stuff, he's a dude. People have been told all of this as the sellers want to be honest and he'd have sold probably straight away if they hadn't mentioned it, but they've been miss sold a horse in the past and they don't want to do that to anyone else, so they've told the truth and people then don't want to know.

I'm selfishly happy he'll be coming here because I've known him for years and love him to bits, as does Dan...but I'm sad for him that he hasn't found a home where he will be the apple of someones eye :( (He won't lack cuddles here and I'll keep him ticking over but it's not the same)
 
I think so many people don't mention faults (deliberately or because they've just got used to 'habits' so stop thinking of them as a problem) and so when people read and ad or hear someone say something small they assume that it's WAY worse than it is.

takes his time loading = also takes the time of 4 big blokes with a lunge whip each
only hacks in company = tries to climb out of field/ stable if other horse out of sight for a second, has to go at the front and will prat about at every opportunity
better with geldings = will bolt out hacking towards the faintest sniff of a mare, can't be taken to a show or people will be flattened as he rips your arms out to get at their horse
shod in front= because the farrier can't get anywhere near his back legs
OK in light traffic = call an ambulance if you see a mini bus coming

etc etc etc.
All horse have their querks and if all adds had them in your friends add would look fine - but her honesty makes more out of minor things than they probably are.

I have one that needs to be got in first - if I sold him I'm not even sure I'd remember what he does if I don't - he's trained us and so it's never an issue
 
If someone were to tell me their horse was perfect then I probably wouldn't believe them.

The problem with selling horses is when you give an honest description of pros and cons, people run a mile or expect it for nothing.

I would much rather know warts and all
 
I'm so disbelieving I want to see everything myself - if that means 3 visits so I can hack him on his own or catch him from the field or watch him load into a trailer - so be it - if the seller can't be bothered then fine - a genuine seller would want the best home but if they can't wait - it wasn't meant to be.

Equally the last purchase was OTTB which I expect to do nothing so can't really be disappointed there either !
 
I think as the sellers said he had a fault people assumed he also had much worse ones that they weren't mentioning. I wouldn't buy a horse that doesn't like horses close out hacking as I assume a kicker.
 
_GG_ said:
I didn't want to put too much of a description for fear of being accused of advertising...I am not, he is coming here on livery so not for sale any more - but he hasn't been used in a riding school for 8 years! I've known him on a small livery yard, used to school him and he'd easily get back up to competing Elementary, possibly Medium again as it's all there, he's just rusty. He's honestly fab. Ask for leg yield in canter and you can put the leg on to ask, then go neutral and he will remain in the leg yield until you direct him otherwise. Ask him for canter half pass and same again, after I'd been schooling for a few months, he started getting it all back. I've known him on large livery yards, really busy and the last 2 years, he has been at a private home with one other horse, turned out 24/7 with a 24 yo mare no problems. He's only had excitement over a mare on the large yard. He'll happily stand in a stable when others are out, he doesn't care about that stuff, he's a dude. People have been told all of this as the sellers want to be honest and he'd have sold probably straight away if they hadn't mentioned it, but they've been miss sold a horse in the past and they don't want to do that to anyone else, so they've told the truth and people then don't want to know.

I'm selfishly happy he'll be coming here because I've known him for years and love him to bits, as does Dan...but I'm sad for him that he hasn't found a home where he will be the apple of someones eye :( (He won't lack cuddles here and I'll keep him ticking over but it's not the same)
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He sounds perfect for me. If I had the money right now, I'd give him a home. Sounds like all he needs is appropriate management and lots of love. Breaks my heart that there isn't someone out there willing to give this lovely sounding boy a chance.

P
 
Buying and selling happens a bit differently in NZ, but still the problem of people expecting perfect horses, and expecting to pay NZ$1000.00 for them is the same.

I don't think most people realise the work that goes into producing a sane, sound, well educated horse. Perfect? Never, and I know plenty here who have bought and sold endlessly looking for something that doesn't exist, rather than dealing with their own inadequacies.

Sad that this lovely horse can't find an owner who deserves him. But better at yours I think than getting shuffled on by someone with impossible expectations.
 
_GG_ said:
So...if you were buying a horse, what would you prefer...a known and proven history of a good horse with the issues above, or a horse that appears perfect in every way, with no proven history or recommendations?

Genuine question? It seems that there are so many dishonest sellers, I'm wondering why so many buyers still fall for the same stories and believe that there are 100% perfect horses everywhere??

Sorry, a slight rant in this I know, but I would always go for a horse that I could check the history of than buy an unknown.
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To answer your original question, I'd buy the horse with a proven history and known (but manageable) issues. I wouldn't, however, buy a horse with certain issues - there are some deal breakers for me and most are down to conformation and previous injuries. By way of example, I will never buy another one with boxy feet.

P
 
What is truly frightening is that the people who have past over this lovely horse will go out and buy a youngster to make themselves, knowing nothing about their breeding and believing that they can manage whatever comes.

I do wish people would realise two things, 1. No such thing as a perfect horse. 2. Horses for courses, some work for some people and some for others.
 
This has been bothering me for a while as I have to put my niece's pony up for sale soon. We've had him for 4 years and I love him to bits but he has his ways. Any problem eg loading problems, didn't like being shod, I've overcome with a quiet, gentle approach. He hates being forced or cornered. How do you get this across to a potential buyer without making him sound like a neurotic idiot which he isn't. I really want him to go to an understanding knowledgeable home but am worried my advert will make him unsaleable. I wish we had the money to buy her a bigger pony and put him out on loan but heyho. :-(
 
I've just bought a horse that the sellers were totally honest and let me know he had some quirks before I viewed him. I was told he was naughty in hand, hadn't hacked alone and would never make the time Be. I tried him out very thoughly, including hacking down the lane alone and watched him at an event. Then decided to buy.
He was dreadful trotting up at vetting and I did worry but I felt so comfortable riding him, I went for it.
2 hours of leading boot camp, one week of hacking practice and the first 2 issues are sorted, whether he can make the time remains to be seen but we will have fun trying.
He had been for sale for a long time and I think like the original poster, people only wanted a "perfect " horse.
 
Glad it's not just me then.

Honestly, it's crazy what some people will buy after passing on brilliant horses. Beggars belief sometimes!
 
The problem is also that people are over-ambitious for themselves. They look for something that can jump a Hickstead Derby course, do a good PSG test, and take them round Badminton, when they will spend most of their time hacking with a few RC comps every now and again. They also want a horse with the body of a TB and the temperament of the steadiest cob you've ever met.

Those who refuse to consider ex-RS horses are really missing a trick, imo. I have had several horses which have been RS horses at some time in their careers and although they have all been rather opinionated, with some issues to sort out initially, they have all been fabulous horses when they have settled into a family home and understood the boundaries.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
The problem is also that people are over-ambitious for themselves. They look for something that can jump a Hickstead Derby course, do a good PSG test, and take them round Badminton, when they will spend most of their time hacking with a few RC comps every now and again. They also want a horse with the body of a TB and the temperament of the steadiest cob you've ever met.

Those who refuse to consider ex-RS horses are really missing a trick, imo. I have had several horses which have been RS horses at some time in their careers and although they have all been rather opinionated, with some issues to sort out initially, they have all been fabulous horses when they have settled into a family home and understood the boundaries.
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Yep...that's all I have ever found with ex-RS horses. Consistency, they understand what you want from them and end up like putty!
 
AND...........I now cannot get Elkie Brooks out of my head....every time I see you username Pearlsasinger...EVERY TIME!!!


;)
 
i think the problem is partly down to the fact that people expect sellers are going to gloss over/play down issues so on the refreshingly rare occurance that a seller is completely upfront and honest you automatically assume its much worse and there must be other issues they havnt mentioned. As to the original question i think it depends tbh, for a childs pony i do think its preffered to buy something with a good proven track record but as an adult, personally speaking, the only ones ive ever bought/loaned with a track record/reputation were ones that were well known for being physco( i used to love a challenge) never ones with good reputations or i buy a total blank canvas to start from scratch with but these are just my personal prefrences
 
When we were going to sell one of our ponies we allowed it to go on trial to a PC family we knew (well thought we did) we made it quite clear that the pony has previously had laminitis, would not travel in a trailer and would not pass a five part vetting. After the fortnight trial the family said that they would not be buying the pony because it had failed a five part vetting, would not travel in a trailer and didn't want a pony that may have a tendency to laminitis. It came back lame in all four feet having been worked really hard for the whole fortnight. I think you can guess my comments.

Sometimes it is not the seller but the buyer. I then made the decision not to sell but to place in a long term 5* semi-retirement loan home
 
As someone who's been on the seller's side (not my own, but horses belonging to the people I ride for), I can say that sometimes, being honest or dishonest doesn't seem to make a difference!
Last year, we were looking to sell a very low milage, green 8 year old NF pony. He'd been sold to a friend as a lightly backed 5 year old, left in a field for two years, then given back. I rode him for nearly a year, and did a little bit of everything with him, as I was getting back into riding too. When it came to selling him, we were completely honest about what he'd done, and explained why to anyone who asked. He was advertised as a schooling project, great as a second pony or family pony, and an absolute bargain for what had the potential to be a super all rounder.
A woman came to view him, she was very excited about coming, and then after the viewing told us that she 'hadn't been interested in a project anyway' (her words).
While I understand that sometimes you need to try a pony to really decide what level it's at, why go to see a project pony if you don't want one?!!!
 
_GG_ said:
AND...........I now cannot get Elkie Brooks out of my head....every time I see you username Pearlsasinger...EVERY TIME!!!


;)
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And Lilac Wine, don't forget! Great user name, great singer.
If I could, I would buy that horse. Do not understand why if ex riding school that should put a downer on a horse. Bit like ex racer. Everyone assumes trouble. No necessarily so. Lots of positives for them.
 
_GG_ said:
AND...........I now cannot get Elkie Brooks out of my head....every time I see you username Pearlsasinger...EVERY TIME!!!


;)
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Sorry about that but at least it's a good song!

Just think of some of the names I could have chosen! You might have had the Birdie Song stuck in your head, for instance, lol!
 
Our best pony was bought from a friend, and he could be said to have problems. He had separation anxiety, was a b****r to load and barged out of stables, and nipped, but ridden he was the safest pony ever, he as 14.2 and my youngest daughter road from the age of nine, shows, PC, the lot. We loved him dearly but he was g**, never wanted to be with us, but you could put anyone on him and he would make them look as if they could ride. We never had any trouble loaning him out and he was never returned unless outgrown, but I doubt if I could have sold him.
I could not care what they are like on the ground, they are bought to be ridden not to be my best mate, its a horse. I will work round any thing as long as I know about it and it keeps me and my children safe.
Everyone wants perfect, it does not exist. You just have to decide what you can cope with.
 
I think maybe people don't think long and hard before buying (I had a list of points any purchase had to meet). And also people can't or won't take the time to deal with what would be considered a few quirks or some training issues (I'm not talking about serious behavioural issues here) and actually a) get to know a horse they buy and b) give the thing a chance to actually settle with a new owner and normally also in a totally different environment/yard from where it came from which might cause the animal some problems from the off - they're not machines.

When I was looking to buy, my eventual purchase had been watched for about 6 months by a good friend who knew about horses - she lived opposite the person who was selling him so from the day the woman had bought him my friend had seen him on the yard and going past her window hacking and also being schooled. She suggested I take a look at him and I tried him twice on different occasions/different circumstances spending 2-3 hours with him doing everything - catching, grooming, tacking up, hacking, jumping, schooling and having canters across big open spaces and he was a lot of what I was looking for. Got him to the yard I was going to keep him on and after 3 months honeymoon period whilst I think he found his feet he then started testing me and the boundaries, we lost a bit of confidence in each other at that point. My friend said when I was having the difficulties if he's not for you, move him on to someone he's more suited to but I weighed up the issues (bad napping and being difficult to catch - neither major and sortable) and got appropriate help and advice and support from other liveries, instructors, regular lessons, Kelly Marks (by email!) and put a lot of riding into him and we got there.

I would say it took him a good 9 mths to a year to bond with me and settle at the yard once he'd seen it through a whole year of summer and then the winter regime - someone told me he would do that and they were right. To me that time was well spent learning about each other and worth the wait and I believe I'm a better horse person because of all that today. We moved to a new yard after 8 years and that did unsettle him again a bit but I was the constant factor which helped. I think being very realistic about your capabilties is vital when purchasing or being prepared to spend time and money if you need to iron out some minor problems.
 
We went to look at a NF pony that had a very honest advert . They said she was green, difficult to handle , didnt like traffic etc . She ws cheap so we went to see. She was lovely , she had been sold for a 10 year old child straight out of a riding school . Poor pony was only rising 4 !!.
They couldnt even tack her up as the uncertainty from the owners was scarey for her .
We made a silly offer and collected her the following day . She is a stunner , she won her first SJ class last week , went on a PC fun day etc . She just needed people to be confident with her .
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Sorry about that but at least it's a good song!

Just think of some of the names I could have chosen! You might have had the Birdie Song stuck in your head, for instance, lol!
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Well, I do now, lol. But with a little bit of this and a little bit of that, I'm sure I'll get over it ;)

Good to hear the responses...really interesting posts!
 
I think part of the problem is a lot of people are unrealistic and not willing to compromise at all (and there's always a compromise with horses!) so fall for the perfect ad and ignore the honest. It's one of the things that totally puts me off selling, I last sold a horse 11 years ago and not sure I ever will again.
 
Ah, you see it would be the riding school bit that would put me off. My first horse was ex riding school and he was very nappy out hacking due to being institutionalised. The RS didn't do hacking out, only lessons in an indoor arena, so the horses lived in a very small world of paddock, stable, arena.

And of course it might be the price... I'm not saying it is, as obviously I don't know the price, but...

And just to set you off again, "she stands up when she plays the piano, in a night club" :-)
 
I've only sold one horse. I bought him (in very poor condition) with the intention of keeping him forever but things weren't as they appeared. He was not as described, his "challenging" behaviours weren't new and there were a lot of issues to address.

Long story short I "fixed" him and approx 16mths later I sold him. At that point he was a healthy and fit horse with all the basics and solid foundations.

When potential buyers phoned I found it hard to tell them about the good horse that I had for sale and would tell them everything about the horse I'd bought and everything we'd been through.

He was sold over the phone on the basis that anyone who was telling them what I was about how he used to be couldn't be hiding anything worse than that! He went to a fantastic home and didn't change from the "perfect pony" he'd been transformed into with immaculate manners.

So in short, yes, some buyers do prefer to know the truth and buy knowing them, even if not relevant, rather than the "perfect" horse
 
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