Non heating feed...?

[Michen]

Not much traffic in the feed section so thought I’d ask you guys in here. Pony is very, very fit hound exercise/autumn hunting once/twice a week mixture of drag and trail. He has bundles of energy and never feels remotely tired at the end of the day.

Currently half stabled on ad lib haylage and half turned out on not much grass. About to have less turnout (around 8 hours) and ad-lib haylage. Fed two cups of linseed and a scoop of soaked Speedi beet, equimins balancer and salt. Split between two feeds.

What can I feed to add a little weight, as much as I prefer them lean he can’t afford to lose anymore. That said he doesn’t need any more energy... at all. I thought about alfabeet instead of speedibeet but not sure if Alfa will send him off his rocker...

Pics the day after drag hunting so will look a little chunkier in a day or two but you get the idea!

 

[DabDab]

He's so cool

Copra?

 

[Leo Walker]

More linseed? I had succes with a rice bran oil product from keyflow and build n glow. Both are appetising, non heating and put condition on even in small amounts

 

[Michen]

He's so cool

Copra?

Ahh he’s such a dude at the moment, bursting with happiness!

He won’t eat copra tried it when I first got him

 

[Michen]

More linseed? I had succes with a rice bran oil product from keyflow and build n glow. Both are appetising, non heating and put condition on even in small amounts

Yep think I can up the linseed but think he needs something else as well. He has opening meet coming up then a weekend away from home hacking etc...

I’ve used the equivalent, equijewel before on Basil and found it made him a bit nuts?

 

[JennBags]

Speedibeet? I've always had good results with it.

 

[Michen]

Speedibeet? I've always had good results with it.

Already on it. Problem is if I make the bucket feed too big he gets bored and won’t eat it!

 

[shortstuff99]

Could try outshine? Oil based so shouldn't send him potty. I use ease and excel for mine, that's good for horses that need condition but not the fizz.

 

[RoR_nut]

Could you try soya oil? or Outshine (If you have bottomless pockets)
I try to steer clear of Alfalfa.....sends ALL of mine off their rocker

 

[MuddyTB]

Could you try grass chaff or soaked grass nuts to replace the grazing?
Suits my TB.

 

[Bernster]

I was recommended linseed oil and a rice bran based feed (I used one from Saracen) which did the trick.

 

[Auslander2]

I'd just bunk up the linseed. My "need to be fatter" ones get a full scoop of linseed twice a day mixed with speedibeet or fast fibre, and they are doing pretty well. I am good at making horses fatter (not so good at making them thinner!)

 

[Pinkvboots]

As others have said you could up the linseed a bit and see how that goes, I have Arabs and they are very sensitive to a lot of feeds sending them nuts, they can't have alfalfa or molasses and I found top spec feeds made them very silly so do a lot of the conditioning cubes.

I have fed them Copra when they needed extra condition and they were fine on that and looked really good, both are fairly good doers so they only get grass chaff and linseed now and I find even in larger quantities the linseed is fine.

 

[Michen]

I'd just bunk up the linseed. My "need to be fatter" ones get a full scoop of linseed twice a day mixed with speedibeet or fast fibre, and they are doing pretty well. I am good at making horses fatter (not so good at making them thinner!)

Do you supplement with vitamin e feeding that much linseed? Bought copra today and also a bag of equijewel (rice bran) but bought a vit e/selenium supp too as worried now I’m feeding a lot of oil based feeds.

 

[JennBags]

Already on it. Problem is if I make the bucket feed too big he gets bored and won’t eat it!

Oops would help if I'd read your post properly 😊

 

[Leo Walker]

Do you supplement with vitamin e feeding that much linseed? Bought copra today and also a bag of equijewel (rice bran) but bought a vit e/selenium supp too as worried now I’m feeding a lot of oil based feeds.

I do as standard anyway in the winter and for any of mine on restricted grazing. I dont go all out with the very expensive oil, I just use a powdered supplement from progressive earth. Mine all seem to do very well on it. Leo in particular tended to go a bit stiff and creaky without it.

 

[silv]

I would try rice bran, it is very palatable and great for condition and shine. Nice looking pony by the way!

 

[Auslander2]

Do you supplement with vitamin e feeding that much linseed? Bought copra today and also a bag of equijewel (rice bran) but bought a vit e/selenium supp too as worried now I’m feeding a lot of oil based feeds.

Not specifically, although I use Equimins Advance Complete, which has a decent dose of Vit E

 

[Michen]

Not specifically, although I use Equimins Advance Complete, which has a decent dose of Vit E

Ah I use that too!!

 

[ihatework]

Do you supplement with vitamin e feeding that much linseed? Bought copra today and also a bag of equijewel (rice bran) but bought a vit e/selenium supp too as worried now I’m feeding a lot of oil based feeds.

I feed omega rice (linseed & rice bran) which is already supplemented with additional E

 

[Michen]

I feed omega rice (linseed & rice bran) which is already supplemented with additional E

I've just done some reading on this. Apparently horses in a decent level of work require around 3000-4000 IU of Vit E a day.
My balancer, fed the higher end rate provides around 800 IU
Omega rice, fed at 1kg a day provides around 431 IU (ish)

So I guess, in the middle of winter where non is being provided by green/growing pasture, any horse even on the above would be pretty deficient if in a high level of work. If my calculations are correct which they may well not be!

Not something I've ever looked in to before and can't say I've ever had a horse I thought may have a Vit E deficiency but quite interesting all the same.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Do you supplement with vitamin e feeding that much linseed? Bought copra today and also a bag of equijewel (rice bran) but bought a vit e/selenium supp too as worried now I’m feeding a lot of oil based feeds.

With the Copra I would only add the tiniest bit to start with or I find a lot of horses don't eat it straight away, I had to add it very gradually but once they got a taste for it they loved it.

 

[SEL]

I've just done some reading on this. Apparently horses in a decent level of work require around 3000-4000 IU of Vit E a day.
My balancer, fed the higher end rate provides around 800 IU
Omega rice, fed at 1kg a day provides around 431 IU (ish)

So I guess, in the middle of winter where non is being provided by green/growing pasture, any horse even on the above would be pretty deficient if in a high level of work. If my calculations are correct which they may well not be!

Not something I've ever looked in to before and can't say I've ever had a horse I thought may have a Vit E deficiency but quite interesting all the same.

I think its a bit like us with vitamin D and B12 - by the time you've got a deficiency that is enough to get you to see a GP you're actually feeling pretty rough. I suspect a lot of horses are just a bit off or a bit creaky and its blamed on the colder, wet weather. They don't routinely test for Vitamin E deficiencies in the UK. I've asked my vet practice a few times (PSSM mare on high oil over winter) and they say the blood results aren't that meaningful. So I give them a ridiculously expensive supplement and hope that it isn't a waste of money.

 

[nikkimariet]

Oats/linseed. Lovely horse.

I'm treating my younger one like an EPSM sort. Bloods fine but he's done a 180 behaviour wise now he's on high oil and vit E supp. And it's the only thing I've changed.

 

[AandK]

I feed omega rice (linseed & rice bran) which is already supplemented with additional E

I feed this as well, great stuff!

 

[leflynn]

Soaked oats without a doubt!

 

[TPO]

Swap out speedibeet for grassnuts or alfabeet. Alfabeet doesn't appear to have the same negative effects that alfa chaff can have. Speedibeet is around 11Mj/Kg if I remember correctly and in the recesses of my memory I'm pretty sure alfabeet is higher.

Another option to swap speedibeet for might be Keyflow Pink Mash. I think it's 12 Mj/Kg but again I'm making a best guess because I can't remember exactly. I've found it to be a really useful feed and as it's aimed at gut/hindgut health then it should, in theory, enable horses to get more from their other feeds.

I'm a huge fan of Copra and never had a horse turn their nose up at it. If that's not an option then increased Linseed and/or maybe something like Keyflows rice bran pellets or I think Falcon Feeds do something similar.

I think vitamin E during winter is a good idea. A lot of balance companies are already wise to this and have summer/winter balancers with additional Vit E in the winter range.

Glad to see you having fun and enjoying horses again

 

[AandK]

Swap out speedibeet for grassnuts or alfabeet. Alfabeet doesn't appear to have the same negative effects that alfa chaff can have. Speedibeet is around 11Mj/Kg if I remember correctly and in the recesses of my memory I'm pretty sure alfabeet is higher.

Another option to swap speedibeet for might be Keyflow Pink Mash. I think it's 12 Mj/Kg but again I'm making a best guess because I can't remember exactly. I've found it to be a really useful feed and as it's aimed at gut/hindgut health then it should, in theory, enable horses to get more from their other feeds.
Read more at https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/non-heating-feed.768249/#3SIzaogrcpG2SICd.99

Speedibeet is 12.0 MJ/kg and Alfa-beet is 10.5MJ/kg. I liked the idea of Pink Mash (which is 9MJ/kg) but it needs 10min of soaking and says to feed within 2hrs of soaking so it doesn't work for me, neither did Alfa-beet as found my horses weren't that keen on the texture. I have stuck with speedibeet!

 

[TPO]

Thanks AandK. It's been a while since I've fed speedibeet or alfabeet...

I feed Pink Mash just now and it does soak really quickly and that's in cold water. I didn't know about the 2hr rule and I've definitely broken it with no negative consequences.

 

[flying_high]

Oats/linseed. Lovely horse.

I'm treating my younger one like an EPSM sort. Bloods fine but he's done a 180 behaviour wise now he's on high oil and vit E supp. And it's the only thing I've changed.

Which oil and which vitamin E supplement are you feeding? thanks