Non loading horse, who pays?

[CHANPAMAR]

A young horse (2yrs) is sold and paid for and is due to go his new home. The breeder has him going in and out of her trailer no problems. The buyer has organised the transport and sending a 3.5 tonne lorry for the 6 hour journey. BUT there is no way the horse will load, just plants itself and won't move. 5 hours later everybody (2 of the people loading also) have "zoned out". Every trick in the book has been tried and violence is not a consideration. Horse totally "not here" anymore. So, it thought best to leave it till another day. NOW..... who pays the haulier? ps has since been transported in a trailer after three and a half hours, he knew exactly what we were up to when he saw the new trailer arrive. I am not looking for other suggestions to get him to load just who is responsible for the very expensive bill that the haulier, quite rightly. has to charge for a wasted journey. So.. who is responsible?

 

[Lipglosspukka]

The buyer. They knew the horse had no experience of loading into a lorry so they should have arranged a trailer.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Yes the buyer. I'd say the buyer even if the breeder had not got the horse loading! If you buy a baby he is yours when the money gets handed over and your responsibility to manage/pay for everything that comes your way from that moment on. The only way I'd consider a seller responsible is if delivering the horse was part of the agreement. Eg having one come over from abroad and the price includes transport.

 

[ycbm]

Buyer, there's a known issue with side load 3.5t vans because there isn't much distance to go on before they have to turn.
.

 

[ihatework]

The buyer of course, it’s their horse now

 

[Winters100]

Agree, the buyer. Presumably the horse was paid for prior to this incident, and the contract stated that from that moment they were the owner and were responsible for collecting the horse. As soon as they become owner they are responsible for all expenses.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

The buyer all day long has to pay.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

ETA and since the buyer organised the transport themselves, I'd imagine the seller need have nothing to do with the bill. The halier bills the buyer for their time The buyer pays. Or refuses and the haulier pursues them however they choose to. The seller should have no involvement in any of that, surely?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

The buyer.

 

[Melody Grey]

The buyer. In this situation, knowing I’d have to pay, after an hour or so I’d have had a vet out to sedate to load and got on with it. Not ideal, but sometimes needs must.

 

[Upthecreek]

Definitely the buyer. As a side issue I know you said violence is not an option, but trying to load a 2 year old FOR 5 HOURS is pretty cruel in my opinion.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Definitely the buyer. As a side issue I know you said violence is not an option, but trying to load a 2 year old FOR 5 HOURS is pretty cruel in my opinion.

Agreed poor bloody horse

 

[TPO]

Definitely the buyer. As a side issue I know you said violence is not an option, but trying to load a 2 year old FOR 5 HOURS is pretty cruel in my opinion.

To then do a 6 hour journey if it had loaded after 5hrs.

ETA it finally did the 6hr journey after a 3.5hr struggle to load it into a trailer.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

I’d be surprised if this poor young horse ever wants to get in a lorry or trailer again, after all that!

Totally agree, poor horse. ?

 

[CHANPAMAR]

I would mention that I was saying the haulier was there for 5 hours, not the horse being under pressure for that time. A lot of it was just chilling , sitting on ramps etc and patiently waiting for him. No excessive pressure was put on and also a vet did sedate to no avail.

 

[MissTyc]

Buyer has a contract with the haulier.

Incidentally, this (and travel injuries) is why I always have youngstock delivered. I have never had a breeder reject this, and the price I pay presumably includes any extra training + the transport, but that way the ownership is on receipt of the animal rather than before setting off.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Of course the buyer is fully responsible for the bill.

I'm not surprised that the horse was then tricky to load in a trailer.

 

[Gamebird]

I would mention that I was saying the haulier was there for 5 hours, not the horse being under pressure for that time. A lot of it was just chilling , sitting on ramps etc and patiently waiting for him. No excessive pressure was put on and also a vet did sedate to no avail.

And who paid the vet?

 

[Melody Grey]

How can a vet sedate to no avail? Whenever I’ve had a horse sedated to travel, they’ve not been in a position to argue with it. For mild sedation I’d do it myself.

 

[Tiddlypom]

If the horse is already hyped up, then sedation is much less effective.

Sedation works much better on a calm horse.

 

[stormox]

Obviously the buyer! Its their horse and they organised transport...

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Jeezo after 10mins I would have turned a broom upside down and poked the spikes up it's backside under the tail! No horse wants a hedgehog up it's bum! Failing that, with a low ramp of a 2 stall or trailer I would have wrapped a jumper round it's head to blindfold it, spin it in a couple of circles then stotter it up the ramp! Not violent but not wasting time either. Sounds like the youngster was taking the absolute mikey out of everyone!

 

[Tiddlypom]

EKW, I think that HHOers who have followed the recent Freaky Accident thread will pass on the broom up the backside form of encouragement .

 

[Ownedby4horses]

Jeezo after 10mins I would have turned a broom upside down and poked the spikes up it's backside under the tail! No horse wants a hedgehog up it's bum! Failing that, with a low ramp of a 2 stall or trailer I would have wrapped a jumper round it's head to blindfold it, spin it in a couple of circles then stotter it up the ramp! Not violent but not wasting time either. Sounds like the youngster was taking the absolute mikey out of everyone!

It always used to amaze me working at an international airport in the UK, watching the expertise of the handlers taking the race horses (usually what I would call babies) off the aircraft, across the pan (while big aircraft are taking off and landing I’ll add) and getting them swiftly into the wagons. Anything nervous or reluctant was swiftly encouraged by linked arms around the bums and about 5 handlers scooping them neatly up the ramps. No fuss. ?

 

[MagicMelon]

Buyer. Id never expect the seller to arrange or pay for anything (unless they specifically offered). Its a 2yo, Id never have expected it to load perfectly either!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

EKW, I think that HHOers who have followed the recent Freaky Accident thread will pass on the broom up the backside form of encouragement .

Well yes there is that ??

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

It always used to amaze me working at an international airport in the UK, watching the expertise of the handlers taking the race horses (usually what I would call babies) off the aircraft, across the pan (while big aircraft are taking off and landing I’ll add) and getting them swiftly into the wagons. Anything nervous or reluctant was swiftly encouraged by linked arms around the bums and about 5 handlers scooping them neatly up the ramps. No fuss. ?

And that's why they are a hugely respected part of the racing world, and stalls handlers too. They keep their cool, never lose the plot at the horses and just get on with the job.

 

[SpotsandBays]

Definitely the buyer. The only circumstance where the seller would be liable was if they sold the horse with delivery included in the price (not very common, and with that they’d likely have their own transport to do so rather than hiring).

 

[Keith_Beef]

EKW, I think that HHOers who have followed the recent Freaky Accident thread will pass on the broom up the backside form of encouragement .

I was thinking about that myself, but there is a safe technique to almost everything. This reminds me of how to safely use a swab and ramrod when loading 17th century artillery: never cup your hand over the end of the ramrod haft, never grip the haft tightly.

 

[milliepops]

echo all the above, buyer is responsible. a horse being willing to load in one form of transport is no guarantee it will go in another. As of last week my babies now know how to get in a 7.5t. I would expect to have to start training all over again to change to a trailer.