horsegirl
Well-Known Member
Am I wrong to think that they shouldn't? Even the kids? There were people jumping in these classes at the show at the weekend who I know get double clears over 3 ft at other shows.
Non novices/beginners entering these classes
- Thread starter horsegirl
- Start date
Nailed
Well-Known Member
im not sure what this post means..
Lou x
Lou x
Kallibear
Well-Known Member
It does annoy me. I was at a show a while ago where the same pony, with the same rider, won the 1'9, 2ft' 2'3, 2'6 and 2'9 classes. It was an obvious SJ pony.
I am an experienced, confident rider but will take a green/novice horse into the novice novice jumping. We never do more than the first two classes (up to 2'6 usually) as it's about getting their confidence up doing courses at shows.
Novicey friend will take advanced horse into novice novice classes as she is nervous and not very experienced. Horse could easily go around a 3ft course no trouble but rider couldn't.
Both to me are acceptable. Me doing novice novice on the advanced horse is NOT. There are plenty of people (mostly young riders on ponies) that do though
I am an experienced, confident rider but will take a green/novice horse into the novice novice jumping. We never do more than the first two classes (up to 2'6 usually) as it's about getting their confidence up doing courses at shows.
Novicey friend will take advanced horse into novice novice classes as she is nervous and not very experienced. Horse could easily go around a 3ft course no trouble but rider couldn't.
Both to me are acceptable. Me doing novice novice on the advanced horse is NOT. There are plenty of people (mostly young riders on ponies) that do though
horsegirl
Well-Known Member
I am saying that IMO people who compete at a higher level at some shows should stay out of the novice classes at others and give genuine novices a chance. Do others disagree?
pelly
Well-Known Member
Agrre with horsegirl ..... I knew a girl in Devon who jumped a grey pony under one name in Novices... Changed its name and jumped Opens.
Or these Combination classes. There was a damn good Palomino who won Affliated...... Went in a Res.Novice COMBO with another kid..
Or these Combination classes. There was a damn good Palomino who won Affliated...... Went in a Res.Novice COMBO with another kid..
horsegirl
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
It does annoy me. I was at a show a while ago where the same pony, with the same rider, won the 1'9, 2ft' 2'3, 2'6 and 2'9 classes. It was an obvious SJ pony.
I am an experienced, confident rider but will take a green/novice horse into the novice novice jumping. We never do more than the first two classes (up to 2'6 usually) as it's about getting their confidence up doing courses at shows.
Novicey friend will take advanced horse into novice novice classes as she is nervous and not very experienced. Horse could easily go around a 3ft course no trouble but rider couldn't.
Both to me are acceptable. Me doing novice novice on the advanced horse is NOT. There are plenty of people (mostly young riders on ponies) that do though
[/ QUOTE ]
In these cases I agree, if horse or rider are novice then of course enter the novice class, my horse could easily jump a course of 3ft 6 but I couldn't and am far to nervous a rider to do that yet but I hope when we are able to we won't still be entering the little classes just to ensure we go home with a rosette
It does annoy me. I was at a show a while ago where the same pony, with the same rider, won the 1'9, 2ft' 2'3, 2'6 and 2'9 classes. It was an obvious SJ pony.
I am an experienced, confident rider but will take a green/novice horse into the novice novice jumping. We never do more than the first two classes (up to 2'6 usually) as it's about getting their confidence up doing courses at shows.
Novicey friend will take advanced horse into novice novice classes as she is nervous and not very experienced. Horse could easily go around a 3ft course no trouble but rider couldn't.
Both to me are acceptable. Me doing novice novice on the advanced horse is NOT. There are plenty of people (mostly young riders on ponies) that do though
[/ QUOTE ]
In these cases I agree, if horse or rider are novice then of course enter the novice class, my horse could easily jump a course of 3ft 6 but I couldn't and am far to nervous a rider to do that yet but I hope when we are able to we won't still be entering the little classes just to ensure we go home with a rosette
Hovis_and_SidsMum
Well-Known Member
I assume you mean people who are not novices or beginners entering classes designed for those who genuinely are beginners?
As a beginners / novice/ numpty rider I do find it disheartening to see people who are blatently trophy hunting at these things. I don't go for the rossettes but it would be nice to think if i did well for a beginner I would get a place rather than it going to someone who can jump the course with their eyes shut and with a horse who treats the jumps like raised trotting poles!
Only recently I saw a girl who had jumped the horse around a foxhunters (I think thats right) only the week before enter a 80cm class with a load of riding club kids. It wasn't fair at all.
As a beginners / novice/ numpty rider I do find it disheartening to see people who are blatently trophy hunting at these things. I don't go for the rossettes but it would be nice to think if i did well for a beginner I would get a place rather than it going to someone who can jump the course with their eyes shut and with a horse who treats the jumps like raised trotting poles!
Only recently I saw a girl who had jumped the horse around a foxhunters (I think thats right) only the week before enter a 80cm class with a load of riding club kids. It wasn't fair at all.
horsegirl
Well-Known Member
plus they hare round like crazy in the jump off cutting all the corners and of course are much much faster than we are as we have to go slow and controlled due to nerves
pieperson
New User
I'm assuming you mean people who you don't think are novices entering restricted classes.
It all depends on the rules of the riding club, many hold that you can stay in novice if you are not placed 1st or 2nd x number of times.
If they havent been placed then they are eligable to enter.
However many years ago (i'm old!) our local riding clubs intorduced a new set of rules to deal with the local event riders riding in novice classes, basically they got pi**ed off because they thought we were unfair competition, despite the fact we were often riding EXTREMELY green youngsters they introduced novice horse/experienced riders classes and therefore bypassed the whole issue!
I dont know if they still do it or not but it did work.
It all depends on the rules of the riding club, many hold that you can stay in novice if you are not placed 1st or 2nd x number of times.
If they havent been placed then they are eligable to enter.
However many years ago (i'm old!) our local riding clubs intorduced a new set of rules to deal with the local event riders riding in novice classes, basically they got pi**ed off because they thought we were unfair competition, despite the fact we were often riding EXTREMELY green youngsters they introduced novice horse/experienced riders classes and therefore bypassed the whole issue!
I dont know if they still do it or not but it did work.
Ahrena
Well-Known Member
I often worry people think this about me.
My pony and I have been pretty sucessful last year up to 3 foot though mainly aroun 2 foot 6ish, and she's very fast against the clock. However we've had problems and as a result I've lost my confidence in the ring.
I feel physically sick going into a 2 foot class, even though I know if it came to the push we could probably get round a 2 foot 9 class. I often worry people will recognise us (she's pretty unforgettable) and think I'm pot hunting.
The thing is, I go slowly in the jump offs as I'd rather give the novice/less experienced people a chance for the rosettes but my pony canters so fast we still always get placed.
Just another side for you to think of.
My pony and I have been pretty sucessful last year up to 3 foot though mainly aroun 2 foot 6ish, and she's very fast against the clock. However we've had problems and as a result I've lost my confidence in the ring.
I feel physically sick going into a 2 foot class, even though I know if it came to the push we could probably get round a 2 foot 9 class. I often worry people will recognise us (she's pretty unforgettable) and think I'm pot hunting.
The thing is, I go slowly in the jump offs as I'd rather give the novice/less experienced people a chance for the rosettes but my pony canters so fast we still always get placed.
Just another side for you to think of.
Hovis_and_SidsMum
Well-Known Member
Yep!! I still prefer to trot Hovis around as he gets so excited in canter i can't hold him. We don't stand a chance against people who canter the whole thing at warp speed! I jumped a 50 cm class recently and then watched someone go into my class wizz around in canter then jump 90 cm later the same day. It takes a bit of the edge off but heh its all experience. Just would like a rossette or two sometimes though.
Edited to add Hov and I are the worst combination - young, green horse + numpty novice rider so we are pretty pants!!
Edited to add Hov and I are the worst combination - young, green horse + numpty novice rider so we are pretty pants!!
BroadfordQueen
Well-Known Member
Urm, but sometimes I take my affiliated horse to an unaff show if she hasn't done anything for a few weeks in preperation for a big show.. imo it is better than having no prep. Although I never jump against the clock, I school round, so I guess I still give the novices a chance.
Kallibear
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Urm, but sometimes I take my affiliated horse to an unaff show if she hasn't done anything for a few weeks in preperation for a big show.. imo it is better than having no prep. Although I never jump against the clock, I school round, so I guess I still give the novices a chance. [ QUOTE ]
That is extemely off putting for those that should be in the class - the novices. If you're doing the open classes with your horse, then thats fair, but if you (experienced riders with an experienced horse) and entering the smaller novice classes you really aren't any better than the pothunters I'm afraid.
I have occasionally done small classes with a experienced horse, but I do it HC.
Urm, but sometimes I take my affiliated horse to an unaff show if she hasn't done anything for a few weeks in preperation for a big show.. imo it is better than having no prep. Although I never jump against the clock, I school round, so I guess I still give the novices a chance. [ QUOTE ]
That is extemely off putting for those that should be in the class - the novices. If you're doing the open classes with your horse, then thats fair, but if you (experienced riders with an experienced horse) and entering the smaller novice classes you really aren't any better than the pothunters I'm afraid.
I have occasionally done small classes with a experienced horse, but I do it HC.
Ahrena
Well-Known Member
Oh let me just add I go out of my way to find unrestricted classes - I will enter a class titled like "Novice" ect providing it doesn't say Not to have won a 1st ect.
This can be very hard though..Some shows expect you to be jumping 2 foot 9 if you've won a class.
This can be very hard though..Some shows expect you to be jumping 2 foot 9 if you've won a class.
BroadfordQueen
Well-Known Member
There is no restrictions on the classes I enter obviously else I couldn't enter! I don't understand what the problem is, if my horse has been stood out in the field for 2 weeks (Which she often is due to circumstances), and she has a big show coming up, I'm not going to just turn up and jump in the 1.10m! I don't have the luxury of my own menage (and only one jump in a boggy field at home). What else do you suggest I do? I have never won one of the classes I have entered, I use it is a schooling session and often circle her before/after jumps, like I would at home. I would enter HC, but I don't see the point if I jump so that I don't get placed anyway
soph21
Well-Known Member
theres a kid at the local RC, her mum's a AI, not a very good one but then!
She has qualified for David broomes doing the 2ft 3', a the RC's shows, she jumps 1ft 6, 1 ft 9, 2 ft, 2ft 3 and sometimes attempts 2ft 6!!!
She came up to me at the last show all excited as she had won the 1ft 6 again (she's won it at every show they have held this year)
She said ''Mum enters me in it cos she knows I'll win and then we'll get the trophy at the end of the season!!!
I was Livid!! The 1ft 6 is for little kids on their lead rein ponies or just off the bloody lead rein!
I made a complaint!
And the mother says she's not competetive..... well Im sorry but putting you're 12 yr old daughter on a 13.2hh pony in with 3 yr old kid on shetland IS SAD!!!!
Phew, rant over
She has qualified for David broomes doing the 2ft 3', a the RC's shows, she jumps 1ft 6, 1 ft 9, 2 ft, 2ft 3 and sometimes attempts 2ft 6!!!
She came up to me at the last show all excited as she had won the 1ft 6 again (she's won it at every show they have held this year)
She said ''Mum enters me in it cos she knows I'll win and then we'll get the trophy at the end of the season!!!
I was Livid!! The 1ft 6 is for little kids on their lead rein ponies or just off the bloody lead rein!
I made a complaint!
And the mother says she's not competetive..... well Im sorry but putting you're 12 yr old daughter on a 13.2hh pony in with 3 yr old kid on shetland IS SAD!!!!
Phew, rant over
Magicmillbrook
Well-Known Member
There are obviously going to be exceptions to the rule, however what realy gets my back up, and I presume the OP is those who blatantly do every class from 1'9" up to 3'3. They clearly have no shame.
Smash
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
She came up to me at the last show all excited as she had won the 1ft 6 again (she's won it at every show they have held this year)
She said ''Mum enters me in it cos she knows I'll win and then we'll get the trophy at the end of the season!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Well yeah, I'd probably beat an 8 year old in a race, but it would be somewhat of a hollow victory.
Tragic.
She came up to me at the last show all excited as she had won the 1ft 6 again (she's won it at every show they have held this year)
She said ''Mum enters me in it cos she knows I'll win and then we'll get the trophy at the end of the season!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Well yeah, I'd probably beat an 8 year old in a race, but it would be somewhat of a hollow victory.
Tragic.
Hovis_and_SidsMum
Well-Known Member
The tragedy for me is I don't think i could beat a 3 year old on a shetland......
Maybe i should try a lead rein class?
Maybe i should try a lead rein class?
Kenzo
Well-Known Member
I know exactly what you mean and I agree with your point, but you can only put certain restrictions in place and still they will a be a greyish area.
Only open to individuals who have never been placed 1st in a novice class? ...or been placed 1st-4th? ....anyone entering the the novice class is not permitted to enter in any other of the jumping classes? what if you you'd won a novice class but only by fluke...few entries or your horse some how had a brain transplant that day and did unusually well but by jove is certainly a novice, what if you need some practice rounds?, what if your horse happed to un well in novice that particular day, hence having a go at the next class?
I think you just have to rely on the honesty and good will of the other competitors, unfortunately not everyone is as thoughtful as some people.
Only open to individuals who have never been placed 1st in a novice class? ...or been placed 1st-4th? ....anyone entering the the novice class is not permitted to enter in any other of the jumping classes? what if you you'd won a novice class but only by fluke...few entries or your horse some how had a brain transplant that day and did unusually well but by jove is certainly a novice, what if you need some practice rounds?, what if your horse happed to un well in novice that particular day, hence having a go at the next class?
I think you just have to rely on the honesty and good will of the other competitors, unfortunately not everyone is as thoughtful as some people.
Ahrena
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I know exactly what you mean and I agree with your point, but you can only put certain restrictions in place and still they will a be a greyish area.
Only open to individuals who have never been placed 1st in a novice class? ...or been placed 1st-4th? ....anyone entering the the novice class is not permitted to enter in any other of the jumping classes? what if you you'd won a novice class but only by fluke...few entries or your horse some how had a brain transplant that day and did unusually well but by jove is certainly a novice, what if you need some practice rounds?, what if your horse happed to un well in novice that particular day, hence having a go at the next class?
I think you just have to rely on the honesty and good will of the other competitors, unfortunately not everyone is as thoughtful as some people.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, my youngster won a class at her second SJ competition, purely because she was the only D/C.
A project pony of mine won his first SJ class as the jump off was an optimum time (clever idea for smaller classes I reckon, weeds out the pot hunters). In both cases I admit entering them into restricted classes as neither were ready to move up and it was fluke we won.
I know exactly what you mean and I agree with your point, but you can only put certain restrictions in place and still they will a be a greyish area.
Only open to individuals who have never been placed 1st in a novice class? ...or been placed 1st-4th? ....anyone entering the the novice class is not permitted to enter in any other of the jumping classes? what if you you'd won a novice class but only by fluke...few entries or your horse some how had a brain transplant that day and did unusually well but by jove is certainly a novice, what if you need some practice rounds?, what if your horse happed to un well in novice that particular day, hence having a go at the next class?
I think you just have to rely on the honesty and good will of the other competitors, unfortunately not everyone is as thoughtful as some people.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, my youngster won a class at her second SJ competition, purely because she was the only D/C.
A project pony of mine won his first SJ class as the jump off was an optimum time (clever idea for smaller classes I reckon, weeds out the pot hunters). In both cases I admit entering them into restricted classes as neither were ready to move up and it was fluke we won.
Apalacia01
Well-Known Member
I can happily say I have been competing at 2'6 - 2'9 my entire life and have never had to move out of a class!!! (Doesn't that say a lot about me!) Well, pony will always knock something, and I would never have the confidence to go any higher..
But yes, it does irritate me. Happened at a show I was at recently - one girl went from 2'6 - '3'3 - thats really, really unfair.
But yes, it does irritate me. Happened at a show I was at recently - one girl went from 2'6 - '3'3 - thats really, really unfair.
Kenzo
Well-Known Member
Oh the joys ...the joys of showjumping!
I got second with a mare once at it was her first time time, it wasnt a pretty round, but most of the others didnt get clear or were elimiated etc...and they were lets say more established jumpers than the mare I was riding, she's most certainly a novice but we had a go at the next class purely because we fluked the 1st....in no way was I pot hunting, I'd never do that.
so yes its sticky subject
I got second with a mare once at it was her first time time, it wasnt a pretty round, but most of the others didnt get clear or were elimiated etc...and they were lets say more established jumpers than the mare I was riding, she's most certainly a novice but we had a go at the next class purely because we fluked the 1st....in no way was I pot hunting, I'd never do that.
SO1
Well-Known Member
I think if there is no restrictions on the novice classes then anyone can enter and that up to individuals. If however the novice class is for horse/rider combinations never to be placed 1st then it is very naughty for people who been placed before to enter.
It is up to show organisers to decide if the 1.6ft class is for novices or just a competition jumping over small jumps.
I have a young pony and we have never done a SJ class mainly cos we do M&M showing but hope to do a few novice SJ classes on him in future.
If you just want to practice and have a more experienced horse then why not do clear round SJ rather than enter the novice classes.
I did flukely win my 1st novice class on my old share horse because the other competitors were on lead rein ponies and so moved up to the next level 2.3ft-2.6ft even though I was nervous and she was inexperienced rather than unsportingly do restricted novice classes. I felt prouder coming 6th in the next level up than winning the novice class!
If my pony wins his first novice then we will move up to the next level and even if we are not confident we will practice and give it a go.
It is up to show organisers to decide if the 1.6ft class is for novices or just a competition jumping over small jumps.
I have a young pony and we have never done a SJ class mainly cos we do M&M showing but hope to do a few novice SJ classes on him in future.
If you just want to practice and have a more experienced horse then why not do clear round SJ rather than enter the novice classes.
I did flukely win my 1st novice class on my old share horse because the other competitors were on lead rein ponies and so moved up to the next level 2.3ft-2.6ft even though I was nervous and she was inexperienced rather than unsportingly do restricted novice classes. I felt prouder coming 6th in the next level up than winning the novice class!
If my pony wins his first novice then we will move up to the next level and even if we are not confident we will practice and give it a go.
horsegirl
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I know exactly what you mean and I agree with your point, but you can only put certain restrictions in place and still they will a be a greyish area.
Only open to individuals who have never been placed 1st in a novice class? ...or been placed 1st-4th? ....anyone entering the the novice class is not permitted to enter in any other of the jumping classes? what if you you'd won a novice class but only by fluke...few entries or your horse some how had a brain transplant that day and did unusually well but by jove is certainly a novice, what if you need some practice rounds?, what if your horse happed to un well in novice that particular day, hence having a go at the next class?
I think you just have to rely on the honesty and good will of the other competitors, unfortunately not everyone is as thoughtful as some people.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know yourself what level you and your horse are at. We came 2nd in the beginners so can't enter that again next year but I hope by next year I wouldn't need to. I am an adult riding a 16 HH horse but I have entered tiny 1ft 9 classes as i have only been to 2 shows in the last 25 years and have only been jumping again for a few months. As I progress and become less nervous I won't enter the novice classes but I might still do the tiny clear rounds as a warm up.
I know exactly what you mean and I agree with your point, but you can only put certain restrictions in place and still they will a be a greyish area.
Only open to individuals who have never been placed 1st in a novice class? ...or been placed 1st-4th? ....anyone entering the the novice class is not permitted to enter in any other of the jumping classes? what if you you'd won a novice class but only by fluke...few entries or your horse some how had a brain transplant that day and did unusually well but by jove is certainly a novice, what if you need some practice rounds?, what if your horse happed to un well in novice that particular day, hence having a go at the next class?
I think you just have to rely on the honesty and good will of the other competitors, unfortunately not everyone is as thoughtful as some people.
[/ QUOTE ]
You know yourself what level you and your horse are at. We came 2nd in the beginners so can't enter that again next year but I hope by next year I wouldn't need to. I am an adult riding a 16 HH horse but I have entered tiny 1ft 9 classes as i have only been to 2 shows in the last 25 years and have only been jumping again for a few months. As I progress and become less nervous I won't enter the novice classes but I might still do the tiny clear rounds as a warm up.
mrogers
Well-Known Member
it annonys me too!!!
Went to an SWPA Show and entered a class on my friends x racer which stated that combinations not to have competed togeter before date of show. Got beaten by girl who had horse all season.
Got revenge though. Judged at a show the other day and said girl was in 2ft workers after winning overall open worker championship at said SWPA show. Had a small word with her and explained I knew neither horse or rider was a novice and kiddly asked her to leave the class and return for the open!
Went to an SWPA Show and entered a class on my friends x racer which stated that combinations not to have competed togeter before date of show. Got beaten by girl who had horse all season.
Got revenge though. Judged at a show the other day and said girl was in 2ft workers after winning overall open worker championship at said SWPA show. Had a small word with her and explained I knew neither horse or rider was a novice and kiddly asked her to leave the class and return for the open!
Magicmillbrook
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
it annonys me too!!!
Went to an SWPA Show and entered a class on my friends x racer which stated that combinations not to have competed togeter before date of show. Got beaten by girl who had horse all season.
Got revenge though. Judged at a show the other day and said girl was in 2ft workers after winning overall open worker championship at said SWPA show. Had a small word with her and explained I knew neither horse or rider was a novice and kiddly asked her to leave the class and return for the open!
[/ QUOTE ]
Ha Ha - thats justice.
it annonys me too!!!
Went to an SWPA Show and entered a class on my friends x racer which stated that combinations not to have competed togeter before date of show. Got beaten by girl who had horse all season.
Got revenge though. Judged at a show the other day and said girl was in 2ft workers after winning overall open worker championship at said SWPA show. Had a small word with her and explained I knew neither horse or rider was a novice and kiddly asked her to leave the class and return for the open!
[/ QUOTE ]
Ha Ha - thats justice.
SillyMare
Well-Known Member
I know this happens a lot - confuses me totally - I just don't see the point.
Iif you and your horse are capable of jumping an open track, why enter a Novice class? Where is the challenge? Can't be satisfying to come home with a rosette (just blooming annoying if you don't I should think).
Iif you and your horse are capable of jumping an open track, why enter a Novice class? Where is the challenge? Can't be satisfying to come home with a rosette (just blooming annoying if you don't I should think).
Rachel_M
Well-Known Member
There are so many people quick to say he/she is not a novice and shouldn't be there, etc but you have absolutely no idea, most of the time, what the story is.
The horse could have had a bad time last time out, and needed some confidence building, or the partnership is just getting used to each other, etc.
I genuinely dislike people who just hover in the lower classes, though both they and the horse are capable of more, and happily sit around collecting the prizes.
BUT, unless I know the person and horse in question, I don't immediately jump to the conclusion that they are pot hunting.
I also don't like people who immediately cry foul when someone beats them and then says "they shouldn't have been in this class", etc. If there are rules in place and the competitor is within those rules to compete there, then they have just as much right to compete in that class as you.
The horse could have had a bad time last time out, and needed some confidence building, or the partnership is just getting used to each other, etc.
I genuinely dislike people who just hover in the lower classes, though both they and the horse are capable of more, and happily sit around collecting the prizes.
BUT, unless I know the person and horse in question, I don't immediately jump to the conclusion that they are pot hunting.
I also don't like people who immediately cry foul when someone beats them and then says "they shouldn't have been in this class", etc. If there are rules in place and the competitor is within those rules to compete there, then they have just as much right to compete in that class as you.
TGM
Well-Known Member
Some shows have a good idea where they run two jumping rings, one for novices/beginners and one bigger ring for more experienced combinations, and then stipulate you can only jump in one ring or the other. Alternatively, they put restrictions on which combination of classes you can enter - eg, someone entering the 1'6" can also do, say the 2' and the 2'3" but is barred from entering the higher classes. This does at least rule out the competitor who likes to try and win every class from 1'6" beginners to 3'3" opens.