Non-refundable deposits on foals

ihatework

ihatework

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What do you breeders do regarding deposits!

If you expect to take a completely non-refundable deposit (even if the foal suffers an accident/illness/injury before weaning) what sort of % do you ask

Do any of you take a deposit with the attached condition that some/all is refundable if the foal suffers an accident/illness that means the sale doesn't progress? What proportion would you refund?

Many thanks
 
When we sell its the whole price at the time of the sale and its down to the purchaser if they want to insure the foal or not if they are worried about it trying to kill itself. All horses can have accident and foals are no exception but if you are lucky they are kept in a quieter herd than riding horses so are less likely to get injuries from other horses.
 
If the enquiry is still while the foal is young (before 5 months) we ask for a non refundable deposit of a minimum of £100 (to cover additional advertising if the purchaser pulls out) at this point we do not ask for any insurance to be taken out from the purchasers point of view, we cover all costs. If the foal is over 5 months we ask for 100% of the purchase price and advise the purchaser to take out insurance as they will be, from that point the legal owner, however we do not charge any additional livery charges up to a pre agreed date. If the new owner goes over this date for collecting their weanling, then charges are made. If at any point the new owner wishes to have a colt gelded, then 100% of the purchase price must be paid before the procedure is done.

Hope that helps :)
 
Polar opposites then!!!
Thanks both.

I was trying to work out if 50% non refundable on a 3 month old foal is normal/fair, but it would appear to vary massively depending on who you speak to!
 
ihatework said:
I was trying to work out if 50% non refundable on a 3 month old foal is normal/fair, but it would appear to vary massively depending on who you speak to!
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As a buyer, I would not be prepared to enter that sort of contract. I would expect to pay a deposit of between 10% to 25%, and would expect it to be refundable if anything happened to the foal, but not if I simply changed my mind.

It might also depend on the price of the foal a little bit.
 
I think prosoup's is a fair arrangement. We ask 25% deposit. Refundable only if foal is seriously injured, stopping it doing the job buyer wanted it for. Minor scrapes or buyer changing mind it's non refundable.
 
I'm purchasing and I thought the terms were a little excessive.

The foal isn't peanuts, but equally not massively expensive. Taking into account breeder has paid a stud throughout then they will likely break even on the foal, no profit.

Breeder is insisting I insure, which is fine, but I can't find a policy that covers short term LOU - does anyone know a company that will cover LOU (future competition) on a foal until weaning?

Failing that I will insist on a 30% refund if foal is LOU prior to weaning or will withdraw from sale I think. That would mean I'm putting up 20% completely non-refundable, and 50% non-refundable if I change my mind.

Please say if I'm being unreasonable!
 
50% deposit sounds very high- I would rather put down 10% deposit and risk losing it if something went wrong OR buy the foal outright and insure it myself.
 
I would expect to put a deposit down to secure a sale, just like you would if you were buying a horse or a puppy. If whilst in the care of the breeder anything happened to the animal its their responsiblity, its not my animal its their animal, I have just secured my interest to buy, so would expect a full refund if when I collect the animal there is or has been a problem and I am not prepared to take buy the animal unless in the same state when I put the deposit down. I would be writing my own T&C.
 
Agree with Kaylum entirely. It should not be your problem/responsibility until weaning and any breeder worth their salt would give a full refund if foal is damaged beyond repair for the job you want. It isn't your fault the breeder has stud keep bills after all, they can't use that as an excuse for needing such a large deposit.
 
We take 10% deposit which is non refundable whatever.
We do suggest that people insure them but it is here choice.
Last year we old our colts with castration included in the price which i wouldnt do again as we lost one with a prolapsed gut throughthe castration site.
Nothing that could be done and knowones fault but he was dead within 40 mins of being castrated and it was just one of those things.
We kept the deposit ,the buyer never asked for it back and it went towards the huge costs that we incurred.
I would have happily have used the deposit against another foal .
He wasnt insured by the buyer
 
I usually take a 20% non refundable deposit and i ask if they would like to insure for death?? its there choice,but covers everyone i think, if anything happens i would transfer to another foal but i dont give a refund.

Would also say i have just sold one and they offered a deposit of 1/3 of the sale price, also there choice, but have one who only had 10% i try to be fair to all?
 
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I take £500 and would refund on a dead/severely injured foal at weaning (though would probably aim to offer them another foal instead even if it was more expensive).

IHW - if foal is already three months old and you are not comfortable with the terms why not wait until weaning and just take the risk if it sells in the meanwhile?
 
ihatework said:
I'm purchasing and I thought the terms were a little excessive.

The foal isn't peanuts, but equally not massively expensive. Taking into account breeder has paid a stud throughout then they will likely break even on the foal, no profit.

Breeder is insisting I insure, which is fine, but I can't find a policy that covers short term LOU - does anyone know a company that will cover LOU (future competition) on a foal until weaning?

Failing that I will insist on a 30% refund if foal is LOU prior to weaning or will withdraw from sale I think. That would mean I'm putting up 20% completely non-refundable, and 50% non-refundable if I change my mind.

Please say if I'm being unreasonable!
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LOU as in loss of use? if that is what you mean then you will not and can not insure a foal for loss of use! it does not currently have a 'use' to lose and therefore can not insure it for that!
For example if a horse is competing at Dressage within the policy period then you can choose the option to insure it for LOU for the use: Dressage.

With regards to deposit yes 50% is high but perhaps the seller has had a lot of time wasters!
If your serious then pay the deposit and its up to you if you want to insure it for Death and vet fees etc
Or perhaps pay in full, insure and arrange a date to collect?
 
I know you can't insure for LOU, but that is what the breeder was saying I had to do and justification for 50% deposit ;)

Breeder can ask what she likes, just wish she had told me T&Cs before I went to view twice!! So yes maybe I am a timewaster, although I hope not, as I am still intending to purchase this foal if possible, I've been on the lookout a long time and it's the only one that has ticked all the boxes.

If a 50% deposit with 30% refunded on injury prior to weaning isn't good enough then I will probably say I'll pay in full on collection at weaning if foal isn't sold in the interim.
 
ihatework said:
Breeder can ask what she likes, just wish she had told me T&Cs before I went to view twice!! So yes maybe I am a timewaster, although I hope not, as I am still intending to purchase this foal if possible, I've been on the lookout a long time and it's the only one that has ticked all the boxes.

If a 50% deposit with 30% refunded on injury prior to weaning isn't good enough then I will probably say I'll pay in full on collection at weaning if foal isn't sold in the interim.
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I wouldn't call you a time waster at all, it is the breeder that is coming up with stupid demands possibly because they're trying to claw back some costs and if that's the case can you be sure you'd get your refund if things went wrong?
If it isn't good enough then she doesn't deserve the sale at all, sorry and I know you've been looking a while but there are other foals out there too so don't give up.
 
^^^^ what Maesfen says. There are simply tonnes of breeders out there looking for homes for their stock at ALL prices at the moment and so if there is a 'guaranteed' sale one would hope that they would be flexible.

I have a filly for sale at the moment and have asked for a deposit...I will cover all costs till weaning but if she stays beyond the agreed collection date or if indeed she ends up staying through the winter then I have insisted she is then insured as she would then become the property in full of the buyer. Up till then i will cover costs.
 
When I bought Electrum from the USA, his breeder and I went back and forth writing contracts to be fair to both of us.
I sent a deposit (can't remember how much now) when he was about 2 months old and had him vetted and x-rayed etc. I then made monthly payments until he was 6 months old and all paid for and ready to fly to the UK. Ownership was not transferred until he was paid for at 6 months old and he was insured by his breeder up until he left the US.
My concern at the time was what if he changed from the first vetting until I paid in full for him at 6 mo ? ...so we agreed and wrote in the contract that he would have a second vetting and x-rays at 6 months and if things were different I would be refunded all except the initial deposit.
I think a good contract is vital...and fairness to both parties concerned.
It was huge thing for me to do and I don't like taking chances lol
Luckily his breeder was very fair and helpful and I had a friend that was a solicitor and we worked out a contract that suited us both :)

I think a non refundable deposit is fair but the amount should be £250 or 10% if foal valued at over £2500...and a payment plan until 6 months old/at weaning. A contract must state who is the legal owner as accidents/death would be liable to them.
 
eventrider23 said:
^^^^ what Maesfen says. There are simply tonnes of breeders out there looking for homes for their stock at ALL prices at the moment and so if there is a 'guaranteed' sale one would hope that they would be flexible.

I have a filly for sale at the moment and have asked for a deposit...I will cover all costs till weaning but if she stays beyond the agreed collection date or if indeed she ends up staying through the winter then I have insisted she is then insured as she would then become the property in full of the buyer. Up till then i will cover costs.
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This exactly, it's not their property until paid in full, just like when you buy any horse, especially if it's not ready to be weaned.
 
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