Nosebleeds

[sw123]

Am compeletely flummoxed, although hoping vet might be able to find something tomorrow!!!

Back in April/May Tog had 4 nosebleeds in 3 weeks. Now in saying nosebleeds i'm talking like a thimble full of blood, not mug/bucketfuls.

1st time was after hacking, 2nd time was in the stable following a day offf, 3rd time after a jumping lesson but like a few hours after, 4th time on the way back from an event but again a good few hours after XC.

Vet came out and scoped him and couldn't find anything. Said if it was the gutteral pouch they usually die on the 3rd one as the artery is so badly damaged and its larger amounts of blood - he got in there and couldn't see anything.

If its the other haematoma thing (sorry can't remember name!) he'd have been able to see something.

Now we had nothing since that day until i wetn to get him ready for a jumping lesson 2 weeks ago and found dried blood on his nose (always the same nostril) when I went to get him out the stable. Took him anyway and he jumped fine etc.

Today went XC schooling, fine when i got on, felt a little bit "off", jumped brilliantly but in between fences didn't feel himself, was very quiet and i could walk between fences on the buckle end which I can never do with him and I could also hear him breathing. Now when I got back to the box and got off he'd bled again, probably more than usual but not LOTS. I assume thats why I could hear him breathing as i'd be snuffling a bit if I had blood up my nose!

Decided I was going to ring the vet to have bloods taken as he does just feel a bit off but then on thinking about it rang the vet (miles away!) who scoped him, who said yes he'd take bloods but also scope him again within 24hours to see if they could see where this latest blood had come from as if you can do it within a short space you can see more whether its come from the lungs or not.

Has anyone any ideas what on earth this is?!!!

 

[vicijp]

Scoping straight away is a good move, even 24 hours is a long time to leave it.
Does he bleed from one nostril or both? Did the vet scope both nostrils? If one, was it the nostril he bled from.
General rule is 1 nostril = not serious, both = lungs. Sinus infections can blow that out of the water, can bleed from both with that and can change very quickly. So even if you scoped the nostril he bled from day after, may only see it if you scoped the other.
General cause of that is pollen, which is odd seeing as he bled today - unless it is miraculously sunny with you?
A blood is a good idea, a virus will often cause a horse to bleed. Unless they are rested completely (3 months at grass) it can turn into a recurring nightmare.

 

[carthorse]

My horse has had a very small bleed twice, both after eventing.Fine at event but when we have unloaded from the box have noticed a small amount of blood in one nostril.He can weave quite a lot in the box,never at any other time. So we have hoped he has just banged his nose or blown it hard as he is a headshaker and rubs his nose and blows it quite alot.
I will be interested in any info. on this subject

 

[MagicMelon]

Sounds pretty scary. One of mine had a nose bleed the other day coming off the trailer after coming back from an event. Was a bit worried as none of mine have ever had a nose bleed before (well, except one but she'd fallen so thats different). I couldnt work out why it would start for no reason I could see, on the way home?

 

[sw123]

Thanks for that - its always been out of the same nostril, and that was the one he scoped but like you say the sooner the better to scope and when he looked last time it would have been 3 days after it had last bled.

It will be just under 24hrs tomorrow which is the soonest we can do, massive lack of decent horse vets here so travelling to the one who did him last time when he was based on an event yard in Leics. I wish it had been sunny here today, although he is often sensitive to pollen, not in a headshaking way but just gets a bit of a sniffle and i give him a pollen allergy herbal thing. The fact he felt quite off today, and over the last few days like he did last season when he had a virus leads me to think that but to others he looks really well so its v slight and only i feel it.

Carthorse/Magic Melon

From what I can gather a one off slight bleed isn't somethign to be too worried about as long as there isn't a lot of blood. Like you say it can be that they've banged it, scratched it with hay/straw/grass or blown/sneezed hard. Although vet did say its a good thing to mention them to them if you can't find a reason just so it can be monitored.

There are then 2 more serious things an ethmoid? haematoma where the haematoma forms and then can bleed when disturbed through work or sneezing/bang etc. Think they're also called a polyp. These can be removed by the vets although its not easy.

Then teh serious one is gutteral pouch mycosis which is when they have them unrelated to work and is very serious. Apparently the carotid artery runs through the gutteral pouch and some sort of fungus grows on in it and causes the artery to erode. According to my vet they tend to have 2 mild bleeds and the 3rd is when the artery goes and they die. Not good.

This link has some info http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/71931.html

 

[sw123]

Well went to the vets yesterday. Looking up all the nasal passages, into gutteral pouch etc and couldn't find anything. He looked up both nostrils as well just to be sure. Then went down the windpipe and found quite a lot of frothy yukky "disease" or sputum really which obviously indicates something not right, be it infection or a reaction. They did a trachea wash so took some to send to the labs but so far we have concluded that for this time at least there is some sort of infection down there and thats whats causing the bleed - chest full of yuk makes breathing harder so can burst blood vessels, and obviously will make him feel flat too which he did.

So gone for the remove all dusty stuff, not that we have much, ventipulmin for 10 days, its got a long withdrawal period so can't take it for too long. Then he's on antibiotics for a few days just to clear anything in there while we wait for the trachea wash and bloods to come back. Also recommended i put him on winergy ventilate so can try that.

It could be that he's always been a bit like that and when its got worse for whatever reasons its caused the bleeds but its now got infected which is why he's gone flat too......not sure.

Vet was a bit confused because its always been out of the same nostril and if its coming from the windpipe it owuld usually be randomly from both.

Will see what results say and how we go from now really.