'Not as advertised'

shadowboy

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Just a musing really (been doing a lot while stuck on the sofa) you often hear people saying that the horse they bought was as advertised. I wonder if part of the problem is the new owner. I know that some horses are sold unscrupulously but for example a friend I've known since uni (12 years) sold her mare (now 15) as an all rounder, easy going, suitable as a second horse to a lady who tried her 3 times and had her vetted. The lady claims that the mare is not as described as she isn't good to clip and hates coloured poles so is useless as an all rounder. I frequently went SJ with friend and have seen the mare jump, and my friend has loads of pictures (many of the horse clipped out including the head) - the lady is keeping the horse but wants a discount. I just wonder if horse is just tacking the mick out of a weaker charactered owner? The lady is experienced as had a horse before having children and her daughter has a pony. But I just wonder if actually many 'miss-sold' horses aren't but just end up with overly 'soft' owners?
 

Damnation

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In my experience, horses are rarely exactly the same with one owner as they are with another but yes sometimes I think part of it is testing the waters with a new owner or even a new handler. Horses take time to settle, new owners take time to adjust. That bond can take several weeks/months, even a good year to nurture. It is very rare you will get a horse just hit the ground running, perfectly to a new owner with no teething problems at all.

My mare is exceptionally well mannered, doesn't pull to grass, stops when I tell her to wait, doesn't kick, bite, barge, nothing. Foot perfect on the ground. However my boyfriend brought her in for the first time the other night as I was ill. She acted up for him, testing the waters instantly with a new handler and spooking at things that if I had been on the end of the lead rope she would never have bothered with. Infact he often walks with me to bring her in, but she knew he was on his own.

Also.. sometimes.. I think people are rather quick to get a few bob back too. My attitude to your friends prediciment would be to return the horse for a full refund if she has the facility to take the horse back, or offer to give her a few free lessons on the mare. See how the new owner reacts to that.
 

elliefiz

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Keeping the horse and looking for a discount screams chancer to me. Having been at the receiving end of dodgy dealings with a UK dealer, I know the law on this inside out. If your friend sold the mare privately then the buyer has little to come back on unless she can prove horse wasn't as described. Written proof would be necessary that buyer asked if horse was good with coloured poles, to clip etc and your friend deliberately lied whilst being aware that horse wasn't good at these things. If your friend can prove she has jumped mare, clipped her, etc without any issues and mare was vetted before purchase proving there was no medical reason for horse not being able to jump, then the buyer has no come back at all. The law would require her to return the horse in the case of a dispute and seek a full refund. However a solicitor would most certainly tell the buyer she has no case. As for horses ending up with "soft" owners, certainly a horse in a new place and being ridden in a different way needs time to settle and adjust. But unless the horse was sold to a complete beginner, it would seem strange that it won't go near coloured poles and it's suddenly become bad to clip. Has the buyer provided any evidence of this?
 

Christmas Crumpet

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I agree that horses are different with different people and that it takes them time to adjust and learn to trust their new owner.

My horse was really tricky to bridle when I first got him and a pain to catch at times but 7 months later, you would never know the problems we first had.

It is so early for new owners to say the horse is doing this and clearly not as advertised but unless it is proving dangerous, I think you have to work through it. Horses are just as complex as people!!!
 

Pearlsasinger

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My guess is that the buyer wanted a horse which will take her over jumps without the rider doing anything to encourage it to do so, while the horse needs someone to ride her into the jump. I also guess that the new owner is not especially confident/experienced with clipping, so thge horse has picked up on the nerves and is saying 'let's not bother with this'.

If I were the vendor, I certainly wouldn't be offering a discount. I would probably offer to take the horse back for a full refund, with transport at the buyer's expense, in order to get the horse a better home. M ost sensible buyers expect there to be few teething problems while the horse and woner settle down together and get to know each other's funny little ways.
 

McFluff

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Horses are as complicated as people - and react to their environment. I took on my Mum's cob - she'd had him for years. Quiet as a lamb, good novice ride. Took him to a new yard (with me, and he knew me reasonably well) and boy did he test boundaries. He is fab, but totally different. Much sharper, cheekier, livelier - I initially thought he'd be too quiet for me, but he's really not. He took about a year to settle, and even then he isn't the same as before.
Personally, I'd never take on a horse and not expect some challenges to come up.
I would just send her pictures of horse jumping coloured poles and fully clipped, with a statement that neither were difficult to do, and leave it at that.
 

Pearlsasinger

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My guess is that the buyer wanted a horse which will take her over jumps without the rider doing anything to encourage it to do so, while the horse needs someone to ride her into the jump. I also guess that the new owner is not especially confident/experienced with clipping, so thge horse has picked up on the nerves and is saying 'let's not bother with this'.

If I were the vendor, I certainly wouldn't be offering a discount. I would probably offer to take the horse back for a full refund, with transport at the buyer's expense, in order to get the horse a better home. M ost sensible buyers expect there to be few teething problems while the horse and woner settle down together and get to know each other's funny little ways.
 

shadowboy

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Apparently, she tried to clip it before the Boxing Day meet and the horse reared in the stable and kept spinning round. I've never known it to react like that. Apparently she said she gave up as she felt it was too dangerous. The mare is jumping rustics but supposedly stopping or running out at every single coloured pole they've put her to. My friend asked her how many times she tried and the lady said once last week but didn't try it again after as she was worried she would come off. My fried is relocating to the USA end of Jan so wouldn't be able to take horse back.
 

pippixox

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horses are living things and have minds of their own! so I think it is often true that the owner advertises them honestly and openly, but they can decide to bahave differently in their new home. this should however be within reason! my mare is close to me after a lots of work and time but will push boundaries with other people and would be less relaxed in a new environment.

agree with other comments that new owners some times expect the horse to just behave perfectly and behave like a machine.
 

kassieg

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If I was your friend there is no way I would give discount! Who trys to clip a new horse when it will be able to sense the hunt!!

Sounds like she needs to get an instructor for the jumping. If your friend can she should offer to go jump the horse for the new owner to prove the point.

My mare I sold in October is being an angel but wasn't sure about loading into their trailer, they know I've nwver had an issue & they saw her load so its just her trying it on. Amazes me that people think they can pick up where the old owner left off!
 

shadowboy

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Horse sold on 3rd December having been vetted the week before. She paid £3000 for her and wants £800 back. I've just text my friend to get her to look at this thread.
 

Asha

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Even a change of yard can change a horses behaviour.

I've had my mare for 12 years, she's always been easy to do in every way, no vices whatsoever. I moved yards temporarily while the purchase of our new place went through. She became very stressy , difficult to handle and started box walking. Behaved like a stallion. Once she was off that yard she returned to normal.

How long ago was she sold ?

Just seen reply, they need to give the horse time to settle, check routine, feed etc has it changed ?
 

Woolly Hat n Wellies

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I had my horse on part loan/share at his old owner's home before I bought him and brought him to live at mine. I had been riding and schooling him for about a year, so I knew his quirks fairly well, and he knew me because I handled him every day, but when I brought him home he turned into a monster. He was so upset by the move, he just wasn't himself at all. He almost flattened me against the stable door and used all his weight to drag me round the yard like a rag doll on the end of the lead rope. Had I not known him well I would probably have been convinced he was missold, but he settled after several weeks and gradually returned to his normal, polite self.
 

Hackie

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This makes me so cross. 99% of the time if a horse isn't behaving it is usally the rider / handler, and of course it takes some time to get used to a new partnership, and to expect a horse to be perfect all the time is just ignorant. They aren't robots.

Was the new owner trying to clip on their own? I'd never clip a horse I didn't know for the first time without help; someone to hold, possibly twitch and if necessary, get the vet out to sedate, it really wouldn't bother me - understandably, some horses don't like to be clipped, but either way if they are trying it on it makes it much easier if you have two experienced people.

Havg trouble jumping a new horse - my first instict would be to have a lesson, it most likely something I'm doing / not doing rather then the horse being naughty. 'the lady said once last week but didn't try it again after as she was worried she would come off' makes her sound pretty inexperienced to me.

Sounds like the new owner is too inexperienced to aknowledge that sometimes new horses have a settling in period, and is trying it on as a result.

Poor horse.
 

neddy man

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sounds like the buyer wanted a schoolmaster, not an all rounder.Dont make any offers of money back.Re the clipping ,how many horses has the new owner clipped,probably none, i bet your friend has clipped it many times with no problems,so again dont offer any money back.Re the jumping,if your friend went and hacked him out and then afterwards popped him over a couple of coloured poles i am sure he would do it no problem(no she does not need to do this),had the buyer seen him jump ? Stick to her guns her horse was as advertised, Dont offer any money back
 

Flicker

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Works the other way too. I sold a mare quite cheap as a companion / hack and made it very clear that I had never felt comfortable to hack her alone as she could be very spooky. Her new owner is clearly far more laid back and competent than me because I see her out and about on the mare, alone, and the pair of them look perfectly happy in each other'so company.
Could I have asked more for her, knowing that the problem was me not her? Possibly. But it is worth so much more than money to know she's in a home far more suited to her needs than I could ever give her.
 

ROMANY 1959

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A friend of mine sold her so safe cob under duress, to a lady who had rode out on her many times with my friend and her other hot TB... Cob was a saint, but if you let it take the mick with you it would, after 3 weeks it came back to my friend as unridable!!! Tankers off, won't stand still to mount...ect... It transpired the new owner would get off if the horse stopped to look over a hedge out hacking, horse just being nosy but new owner thought it was planting , so of course the horse got into bad habits and would then drag her back to yard,
And the standing to be mounted, well it was found out she would always be late getting ready for a hack and the others would be setting off and the cob got impatient it was being left at home!!! So yes, it can be down to new owner doing things different or being scared of said new horse.. Said cob now has a new home with a teenager who does not take any messing off it..
 

pennyturner

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So sad that people think horses are machines, and can't see the effect they have on a sensitive, intelligent animal.

Last horse I bought was sold cheap as an unbroken 6y; panicked if you go near it, kicked out if you tried to brush it.. in short, a wreck.
After 5 days at home it was a kind, gentle ride and drive. Can I have my money back?
 

poiuytrewq

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I agree with you and find this subject really interesting.
I'm absolutely not an overly soft owner but last August bought a horse who then proceeded to have a complete personality overhaul.
I wracked my brains and everyone on here's before deciding he had been mis-sold.
I just can even begin to describe the difference in the horse the owners described and the horse I actually had at home.
However several months later I pretty much have that horse!
I don't think it's always a new owners fault as such but that some horses maybe just can't handle the whole being sold everything changes thing?
I'd never resell this horse as as lovely as he is having dealt with it first hand I'd be scared he may really injure someone at first.
 

Toby_Zaphod

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The purchaser tried the horse 3 times, obviously decided she wanted the horse so got it vetted. It presumably passed the vetting so she bought the horse for the agreed price. She now wants to keep the horse but wants a refund of £800 (approximately 25% of purchase price) ? The buyer it taking the P. You have evidence that your horse will be clipped & will jump coloured poles in way of photo/video so the buyer hasn't got a leg to stand on.

One of the biggest issues when selling a horse to someone is that the buyer has a higher opinion of their riding ability than they actually have. You can see this when they mount the horse & try him out. Then when the horse moves to their yard the horse is unsettled & the ridersd ability is not good enough to nip any issues in the bud.

In either case do not return any of the money to the buyer. they are trying it on!!!
 

ycbm

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Keeping the horse and looking for a discount screams chancer to me. Having been at the receiving end of dodgy dealings with a UK dealer, I know the law on this inside out. If your friend sold the mare privately then the buyer has little to come back on unless she can prove horse wasn't as described. Written proof would be necessary that buyer asked if horse was good with coloured poles, to clip etc and your friend deliberately lied whilst being aware that horse wasn't good at these things. If your friend can prove she has jumped mare, clipped her, etc without any issues and mare was vetted before purchase proving there was no medical reason for horse not being able to jump, then the buyer has no come back at all. The law would require her to return the horse in the case of a dispute and seek a full refund. However a solicitor would most certainly tell the buyer she has no case. As for horses ending up with "soft" owners, certainly a horse in a new place and being ridden in a different way needs time to settle and adjust. But unless the horse was sold to a complete beginner, it would seem strange that it won't go near coloured poles and it's suddenly become bad to clip. Has the buyer provided any evidence of this?

Sorry elliefizz, but I'm reasonably sure you are wrong in two respects.

Nothing has to be in writing, a verbal contract is equally valid, just more difficult to prove.

The horse does not have to be returned. If the horse was misdescribed and is not worth what was paid, the new owner can sell it or keep it and sue for the difference between the horse's true value and the price paid. Friends of mine sold their missold horse more than a year before they finally won in court.
 

Vodkagirly

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I wouldn't be refunding any money and I would be explaining clearly to the buyer why you weren't. However I would offer to go and give them some help if possible, it maybe something that you can resolve easily.
 

marmalade88

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One of the biggest issues when selling a horse to someone is that the buyer has a higher opinion of their riding ability than they actually have. You can see this when they mount the horse & try him out. Then when the horse moves to their yard the horse is unsettled & the ridersd ability is not good enough to nip any issues in the bud.

This, in most cases where the buyer thinks there's an issue they can't ride or handle the horse and blame the seller rather than themselves. Some horses take a long time to settle as well.
 

zaminda

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My pony has been out on loan several times. He has been different with every loaner, and has properly taken the mickey out of a couple of them. In one home he was quite difficult to clip, they reckoned they couldn't do him without a twitch, yet you can clip him loose in the middle of the field normally. I suspect she is chancing it because she knows your friend is leaving the country,, and can't easily take the horse back.
 

Paint Me Proud

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Horses react differently to different people. My gelding is quite sensitive, and whilst I can clip him head to toe while he satnds quietly and patiently with no issue at all, I know that with someone other than me trying it, especially if it's someone he's not too familiar with, you wouldnt get near him.
 

nuttychestnut

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Personally I would offer to send my instructor over to them for a lesson but not offer anything more. (Due the travelling element) Sounds like the horse is pushing the boundaries with them.
Would like to say not all of them test the water, but a fair few do!
 

Tobiano

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it seems really odd to me that the buyer is asking for a reduction rather than asking to send the horse back, if it is really the case that it is not as advertised. Will the £800 requested solve the problem? I wouldn't have thought so.

I also would not be refunding any money in the circs but it does go to show how careful you have to be when selling your horse!
 

elsielouise

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This type of behaviour of a buyer so annoys me. Have owned my mare 18 years and moved her, probably five times during this period. Each time she has been a PITA until she has learnt a new routine. Her behaviours have included box walking when never before seen, barging, when never before seen, napping, planting and a whole host of typically unsettled behaviours.each time consistent 'riding through' has resolved things and she returns to the mare I know. My son's pony is less reactive but still obviously unsettled by a change in environment and we've had her five years and moved her once.

Our horses have not had new handlers or a new herd to deal with they are just out of their comfort zones and need patient handling.

Some people would be better off with a bike!
 
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