Not bothered or just see what we want?

Gingerwitch

Gingerwitch

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Recently I have been amazed at the number of posts saying that horses on there own - no equine company and horses without a routine are "simply not bothered" - question - are these horses really not bothered, are the owners seeing what they want to see, or have the horses just shut down to the extent that they are so desensatised to their world that the owners think they are not bothered. Or do horses really have no feelings on either of these issues?

GW
 
I think it is a matter of what they are use to.

My horses will be waiting to come in from the fields at around 4 p.m. If I am late, usually nothing more than an hour, then they will be standing there not fretting at all.
If in the morning they have to stand in for some reason then they are happy to eat their hay and not worry at all.

I do stick to a routine but not by the clock. Especially in the evenings when I go down to feed and skip out. This is normally around 10 p.m. but sometimes it has been as late as 1 a.m. because I have fallen asleep on the sofa.
It is amusing as new horses might be a tad unsettled but the others know that they will get fed and skipped out at one point or another! I am sure that they have a bet as to what time I will get there!

I work 7 days a week and Sundays I allow myself a lie in and do not get down to the stables until 8 a.m. rather than 5 or 6 they never seem bothered about it.
 
my horse would try and kill me if he was on his own and himself for that matter, and he also has to be in a routine otherwise he worries and stresses and hes a generally very laid back horse :)
 
Gingerwitch said:
Recently I have been amazed at the number of posts saying that horses on there own - no equine company and horses without a routine are "simply not bothered" - question - are these horses really not bothered, are the owners seeing what they want to see, or have the horses just shut down to the extent that they are so desensatised to their world that the owners think they are not bothered. Or do horses really have no feelings on either of these issues?

GW
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I'm not sure why you've paired no routine with a lack of equine company. I know that the vast majority of equines need company.

I also know that not all equines need routine, particularly if they aren't used to having a routine. If you want the proof, come visit mine in their field.

Unfortunately, because we as humans often need to impose routine on horses they often come to depend on it and anticipate it. That's why we get horses stressing as feed time approaches, stressing to be brought out, or in on time - horses that have become conditioned to run to our clock. If you avoid routine then they won't look for it will they? This is of course much easier to do if you keep your horses in fields, rather than on livery yards or stabled daily. Fortunately horses are adaptable and tolerant creatures and many happily fall into our routines, stay calm and thrive. It's the many that don't that bother me.
 
Dancing Queen said:
horses are naturally gregarious creatures. I personally dont feel it is ok to keep a horse on its own without company.
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Whilst I agree with this and wouldn't keep a horse by itself, my old lad and my yearling are both more than happy to be left alone - in daylight, in the dark, for half an hour, for hours on end.

I know my cob would not be phased by living alone and I strongly suspect the yearling would adapt too. My other highland, on the other hand would not be happy - he's a much more sociable animal by nature...
 
Tinypony said:
I'm not sure why you've paired no routine with a lack of equine company. I know that the vast majority of equines need company.

I also know that not all equines need routine, particularly if they aren't used to having a routine. If you want the proof, come visit mine in their field.

Unfortunately, because we as humans often need to impose routine on horses they often come to depend on it and anticipate it. That's why we get horses stressing as feed time approaches, stressing to be brought out, or in on time - horses that have become conditioned to run to our clock. If you avoid routine then they won't look for it will they? This is of course much easier to do if you keep your horses in fields, rather than on livery yards or stabled daily. Fortunately horses are adaptable and tolerant creatures and many happily fall into our routines, stay calm and thrive. It's the many that don't that bother me.
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Good point, I hadn't even noticed that :eek: A bizarre coupling of management ideas really - two completely different debates!
 
I have never owned a horse that would have been happy living on its own and I would never do so. I believe that horses are herd animals and to take them away from that existence is completely unnatural.
 
JFTD said:
Whilst I agree with this and wouldn't keep a horse by itself, my old lad and my yearling are both more than happy to be left alone - in daylight, in the dark, for half an hour, for hours on end.

I know my cob would not be phased by living alone and I strongly suspect the yearling would adapt too. My other highland, on the other hand would not be happy - he's a much more sociable animal by nature...
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LOL, My old man used to enjoy his own company and was very much a loaner, but as he got older he got clingy to the old mare. My youngsters are ok on their own( company the other side of the fence) but seem much happier together, chasing and racing each other. I swear you can see their minds ticking over! funny creatures but gorgeous! x
 
IMO the 2 issues are just not comparable.
As I said on another thread, I would NEVER expect a horse to live on its own, or with other equines at the other side of a fence. They should be able to touch each other, indulge in mutual grooming and play if they want to.
However, I think that it is unwise to train a horse to expect a particular timetable, because if there is a need to deviate from that timetable, say in an emergency, matters could be made worse by stressing horses. Ours know that we do stick to a routine, in that we do everything in the same order, particularly bringing in/turning out, to keep the vulnerable safe, but they cannot rely on everything happening at the same time every day. They go out earlier on workdays than they do at the weekend for instance.
 
Unfortunately none of mine are happy to be left alone. But even that is a situation I have created for myself. If I'd had time I would have had all of them practise being left alone as my little herd grew, right from the day each of them arrived. Unfortunately life and the need to earn money get in the way.
 
Dancing Queen said:
LOL, My old man used to enjoy his own company and was very much a loaner, but as he got older he got clingy to the old mare. My youngsters are ok on their own( company the other side of the fence) but seem much happier together, chasing and racing each other. I swear you can see their minds ticking over! funny creatures but gorgeous! x
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My youngster is perfectly happy to be left completely by himself - nobody wihin sight or a few miles (at a guess) - which I think is very odd... I'd never expect him to live by himself, but it's very useful to be able to take my other two out and leave him alone without worrying about him :D I think it would be terrible to leave a youngster to live completely alone - really unfair, especially with a young one. As you say, they do really love to play :p

Your old lad sounds like mine - except that mine's clingier with the hay barn than any other horse :D
xx
 
no company and no routine are entirely different points.

I have never kept a horse on its own, nor would I like to (not including of course, quarantine periods, where they ARE on their own, but that is a temporary necessity, not a longterm management decision).
 
mine is in a field on her own.....but company all around her (touching but not able to kick!)

I wouldnt have her with no company around her at all - she needs to see horses
:)
 
Jiggle said:
no company and no routine are entirely different points.

I have never kept a horse on its own, nor would I like to (not including of course, quarantine periods, where they ARE on their own, but that is a temporary necessity, not a longterm management decision).
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I agree with this.

There are some horses that are happier on their own, but these are very rare cases and generally the problem is man made. The mare that I am thinking of, was kept on her own for nine years after she was backed. She really liked other horses, but got very stressed and didn't really understand herd dynamics anymore. She was much happier kept in her own paddock next to the other horses.


My lot are funny.

I can take any single horse out of the herd except for the TB. Also I can take any two out, except for the TB. :confused:

If the TB needs to come in, I have to bring all four, or they jump out of the field and follow anyway. That's how I learnt that the grey filly was actually a pretty good jumper. :rolleyes:

When the grey filly and the TB were together without any others, I could bring in the grey and leave the TB on her own for half an hour (with other horses in the paddock next door) and the TB would graze happily.
 
Gingerwitch said:
Recently I have been amazed at the number of posts saying that horses on there own - no equine company and horses without a routine are "simply not bothered" - question - are these horses really not bothered, are the owners seeing what they want to see, or have the horses just shut down to the extent that they are so desensatised to their world that the owners think they are not bothered. Or do horses really have no feelings on either of these issues?

GW
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Well my lad truly is not bothered, he is a continental WB and would have been kept in separate grazing from after weaning. He is perfectly able to let me know his opinions about where he should be and when, in his opinion October to April a horse should not be in a field, if you are foolish enough to put him out then he removes the gate and brings himself in, often pulling the stable door closed behind him. My horses have routines, Captain thrives on it and doesn't like change, Fany can take or leave it.

As for desensitised, he is the most sensitive horse I have ever met. He is just happy with his own company, the only exception being Fany. He will, and has done, chase other horses out of the field. So please don't be so condemning. Not all horses are the same, Fany would go mad in a field on her own Captain loves it. Horses for courses.

FDC
 
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Because when Reg is bothered by stuff he stresses visibly- he gets fretful and restless and very jumpy. For example, he really hates being stabled for long periods of time, especially overnight. When he used to come in, if you were there before 7 he'd be pretty ok if a little jumpy. If you were there at 8 he'd have trashed his bed and would be out like a rocket as soon as you let him- he couldn't eat then either.

Living out on his own he is genuinely happy as they come. He's now on his holidays, and is sharing a massive field with 2 small ponies. He's buddied up to one of them and they're as thick as thieves, but he's no more or less like he usually is.

I think it's a case of knowing your horse, and knowing how they show what's going on. Some horses need company, and get desperately lonely without it. Reg is quite happy having a field to himself and some horses in nearby fields!
 
We have all sorts my dad has pointers and hunters I bring on and sell and have a variety of my own, all of mine will come in on their own most other than the real babies will stay in field on their own.

I do not keep them alone as all mine live in herds as this is more natural and they are more happy this way.

We have bought in horses who are so shut down none of this bothers them when they are introduced it takes time for them to intergrate in to the herd but they are happier and more relaxed when they do.

As for routine horses dont care they anticipate if something is done at the same time every day but do not need routine we mistake anticipation as needing a set routine.

If you are subjected to anything good or bad every day at the same time then it changes suddenly it can cause stress this does not mean you need your regime to stay the same or could not be happier if it was changed, there will always be response in human or animal to change.

This does not mean the original set up was best.
 
I have my horses together, but some are more bothered than others about being on their own. Out of 7 horses (and 1 owned previously sold not long ago), three are genuinely happy to be on their own. The other 5 prefer company.

Of the 5 that prefer company, 2 of them, cope okay on their own if you leave with the other horses for example, and 3 of them pace the paddock until their paddock mates return. (One of them will get quite anxious even if others remain for company, he does not rest until everyone is back home.)

So I just think some horses are more laid back than others.
 
It all depends on the individual animal. As I have one who was so dependent on routine that he was impossible to live with. He'd panic at the slightest change, even down to my coat or the colour of his saddlecloth and something had to be done to make it possible to deal with him. He is far happier now he knows the only routine is that there is NO routine. Things are mainly done in order, he usually has the same stable, but he doesn't panic if I put a different head collar on him nowadays.

I have to say I think you are hardly leading by example if one looks back at your posts about having two horses each with stables at two yards and the amount of swapping them round from yard to yard you decided to do. Routine for horses is something that works every day, not on a weekly or two weekly cycle.

Apart from that, the number of new yards you've been on since I noticed your yard hopping antics well over a year ago would suggest that your horses have hardly settled into a new yard and new routine before you move them again.
 
I do think it is rather condescending of the OP to suggest that all those who embrace management styles different to her own are simply incapable of seeing how distressing this is for our horses...
 
I think it is one thing for a horse to be kept in an individual paddock but able to groom over the fence with another horse to being kept completely isolated with no other horses. For a herd animal to be totally isolated and no other company to help keep watch for predators etc must be really tiring. And whilst I'm sure they adapt to it, because they have no choice if they want to live, it just goes against all natural instincts they have.

For me keeping horses on their own is an absolute no, no. Have never needed to keep a horse on individual turnout, appreciate the reasons why some people do have to and as I said before as long as the horse can at least reach and groom over the fence then at least they know they have company around them. But to keep them in isolation from their own species to me isn't fair.
 
My horse is always kept alone. Obviously he is around other horses in the stable and has horses next door and opposite but other that he doesn't socialise with them in the field.

He is stabled 24/7 at the moment as I moved him to a local yard before my venture to Wales this weekend, so he has been in 24/7 for over a month. He has a routine though and I turn him out loose in the arena a few times a week to let the steam off, he gets ridden 6 days a week too. I was reluctant to turn him out as he is only there for a short period of time so I thought it was more unfair to introduce him to a herd for the sake of a month.

Plus, I prefer if he only goes out on his own, providing he can see another horse in a field next to him! Or with geldings only and thwir field is mixed. He used to go out everyday at a previous livery yard with geldings only and he was fine, but he is very stallion like with mares and can get very boisterous! So its better for all if he's kept away as, as much as I don't want him to get injured, I don't want him being the one injuring other horses. He is also my world and my show jumper, so his legs are precious! And so is he so I would dred to think if anything happened to him :(

But, he's a healthy, happy chappy who loves human attention more than horses (no I'm not seeing what I want to see as he used to be depressed at a previous yard) I know when my horse is happy and he is. When I move to Wales he will have a field to run around in all be it on his own! :rolleyes:
 
Tinypony said:
I'm not sure why you've paired no routine with a lack of equine company. I know that the vast majority of equines need company.

I also know that not all equines need routine, particularly if they aren't used to having a routine. If you want the proof, come visit mine in their field.
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Quite!

I don't like to see horses kept alone. Unfortunately some of mine have done it for v short periods when their fieldmates have passed away :( but I always try and borrow company for them asap. I happen to have another HHOer's horses staying with me at the mo, purely so that my retiree isn't left alone when I ride my boy.

I don't however see the need to be obsessed with routine. The horses at mine are looked at regularly by YO and his family as they go about their daily business. They all have a fair bit of haylage, which is the bulk of their diet, so I don't see it as crucial that they have their bucket feed of chaff and balancer at the same time each day. As a result my horses are never waiting at the gate for me restlessly, but instead are happily grazing and snoozing till I pull up. They then always look pleased and surprised at the sound of my car :D
 
I always used to think the same - especially with my last pony, he would go MENTAL if left alone, or even if he thought he'd be left alone, I used to think people were cruel if they left their horses out or in on their own. Then I got my new mare, and she genuinely does NOT care, shes currently turned out on her own (only because I want to feed haylage in field and everyone else thinks it's evil!), the other day everyone else got their horses in 3 hours before she came in, and she couldnt care less. She is often the last to be turned out in the morning, without being able to see/hear the other horses after they've gone out, again does NOT care at all. She also doesnt have much of a routine - same time turned out in the mornings but different times bringing in between 3.30 and 6.30 and again, it doesnt bother her at all.
 
Depends on the horse I think.

Last mare had a routine but if it had to change for whatever reason she never worried. Was fine to stay out on her own when all the other horses had been brought in etc. Would just mooch off and eat. (I was never more then 30mins later then everyone else to bring her in, and she was a handful on the ground so I told them to leave her!)

Buffy my new one would go mental! :mad:

Made the mistake last night of letting YO turn her 3 out first (they were all in for their dinner) thinking Buffy would be fine in the stable for 2 secs on her own.... but no. She started rearing in her stable and I saw her knees come above the top of the door :eek: I then RAN over and she calmed down.

Its definately a culture shock going from 1 mare, fine on her own, doesn't give a toss, clean in the stable, not too fused about routine change.. to this mare who is very sweet well mannered and lovely but cannot be on her own and cannot stand routine change, oh and is a messy bugger in the stable!

I think it all depends on your horse.
 
My boy is on individual turnout - he isnt bothered by it at all. There are other horses on the yard & he can see them from a distance. He has lived in a herd environment before but his attitude hasnt changed since living alone so I dont feel the need to change it.

When he lived in the herd environment he was forever coing in with lumps & bumps & also his rugs were getting wrecked by the other horses pulling on them, it was costing money having to replace rugs all the time & also other owners were lazy about poo picking & that really gets my back up.

I have my own field management in place now, other horses cannot ruin my rugs & he doesnt come in with lumps & bumps anymore, & like I say there is no change in attitude, as long as he gets feds he couldnt care less!
 
My lad is a sensitive soul and he absolutely thrives on routine, he gets very stressed if it's not adhered to (he even has his place for coming in in the mornings!) and I doubt he would cope without company, but I would never put him in the situation where he would be on his own, he loves to play and is a very sociable boy with people, horses and even the yard cat! :)
 
My pony hates being turned out with others, always has and is much, much happier on his own. I accept he is a freak of nature and most need company but this is definitely his choice not mine. On the other hand he has a strict routine which he knows and is happy with, if for some reason I have to change this it does throw him.
 
I have to say, my boys asre in a routine in as much as they see me every day (except in emergencies or the very rare occasions I go up to Newcastle top spend time with my family), they get mucked out, fed, watered, haylage/hay in their stables and attention BUT they're by far not on a strict timetable. I'm self employed and work very erratic hours and days, sometimes I'm at the yard by 7am sometimes not til 7pm, They're both turned out for me by my YO but even then that's not at an exact time every morning and yet neither of them is bothered, They know I'll be there at some point and so they're perfectly relaxed and eating.

With regards company, my WB can easily be left alone but he has to be able to see other horses around him, he panics otherwise, but he's more than happy not shwing his paddock with anyone. My Welsh D on the other hand has taken 14 years for me to persuade him that other horses are NOT dragons and they will NOT eat him. He always HATED equine company and much preferred living alone, even now he's fine on his own but he will tolerate my WB (no other horses though!). I've tried keeping him in a herd environment and it only serves to make him depressed, make his coat go dull, put him off his food and allow him to gain injuries from being bottom of the pecking order.....I'd go for individual turnout every time for my little lad thankyou.

What I'm saying is, surely you're making a sweeping generalisation here....yes generally horses are herd animals who need other equine company but not always, there's always an exception to every rule. I also agree with everyone who has stated that the 'rouine' or lack thereof argument is totally unrelated to the company thing, routine is something we as humans have imposed on our horses ever since domesticating them, they don't wear a watch and thus they simply follow repetition.
 
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