Not sure about instructors methods - what do you think?

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magpiesyard

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Hi,
Had a lesson today with a new instructor, first time for lesson with my 4yo Reuben. I backed him 3 weeks ago and things are going really well, just a couple of minor issues. I'm not 100% sure about the methods my instructor has given me and wondered what your views were: Her theory is that horses don't like discomfort and will prefer to do as you ask than to receive the discomfort you provide if he doesn't do as you ask. fine. but its the method of discomfort i'm unsure about:
In trot he will sometimes go back to walk of his own accord when he feels like it, instructor wants me to turn his head right round to my knee on alternate sides 3-4 times then ask for trot again, if he still doesn't trot move his head round again and repeat until trot is re-established.
Hope i've explained that ok?
Has anyone else been given this method before? I think I may have seen it at Hickstead once but other than that its a newbie on me!!
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Just my personal opinion but with a horse this newly backed I wouldn't want to be doing anything deliberately that is intended to cause him discomfort. He will not learn anything positive from it.
Newly backed horses can be a bit stuffy- they are still getting to grip with your aids, I might be inclined to try a gentle wip-wop or similar
 
Does he go on again into trot when you push him forward again? If he does I wouldn't worry about it, he is probably still getting his balance adjusted to having a person to carry! I'd rather have a horse that slows back to walk when unbalanced than rushes forward!
 
sounds utterly daft - he's not going to twig that moving his head like that is because he has broken back to walk. You just have to be firm and ask him to trot again pronto. Also use your voice to display your displeasure when he breaks so he knows it was the wrong thing to do. If he's not sustaining trot for v long yet, keep it shorter and make the point of asking for walk when you want so that he knows it is on your terms rather than letting him fall out of it randomly.

But it's not really a big deal - he's only been ridden for 3 weeks!
 
hmmmm. if he's just been backed I wouldn't really want to be causing him discomfort after all he's new too it all. Its not the worst thing he could do - surely asking him to go back up to trot or a gentle tap with a schooling whip would be the first step? seems a bit ott to me going on what you've put in your post
 
Hmmm... I've used the method before, but a slightly different variation! If the horse comes back to walk, put my leg on until it goes forwards again....
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I can see where the theory comes from, and I'm sure it works if used correctly, but I'm not convinced this is a good method! Surely the horse is not going to be able to associate having its mouth pulled around and it's neck wrenched with not going forward? if you are happy with your instructor then carry on regardless, but if you are doubting their methods - you know your horse and you know what is right for him.
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doesn't sounds at all good to me from what you've described.

Sounds like a very good way to sour and desensitise a young horse.
You want him thinking forwards before anything else.
 
Perhaps you could ask your instructor to sit down with you and fully explain her reasoning for that specific exercise and how it helps make the horse more schooled to your driving aids, which is the basic issue. If it's still unclear perhaps she could demonstrate on your horse.

That correction can be used for horses that really stick, especially ones that get light in front, and a MILD version (tipping the nose) can get a young horse "unrooted" but it's really hard to tell if your horse fits into those categories without seeing. My personal preference is for something a little more "cause and effect" for young horses rather than just one correction or "punishment" (sorry, but it is, whatever you want to call it) for all crimes and I like something that IMMEDIATELY shows the horse what I want and offers a path to the correct response (he cannot go forward when you have his neck turned, but he can move his feet so it depends what you actually want) but to each their own.

I really don't want to put words in your mouth but one issue you might want to raise, because there is a lot of talk about it these days, is long term concerns about extreme flexion (the usual fuss is about longitudinal flexion but lateral is an issue too) and the structures of the horses neck. We worry a lot about growth plates in the horses' legs but in fact the same sensitive structures exist in all the joints right up to the ears and "close" in a set timeframe, finishing with the vertebral joints when the horse is AT LEAST 6. The problem is if you damage those structures the ill results don't show until much later. One theory is the apparent rise of "wobblers" and similar arthritic syndromes can be traced to the modern mania for breeding horses with long athletic necks and for manipulating head carriage in training. At the least it makes sense to be aware that the risk exists.

Obviously a few episodes of stress are not of concern at all - I am not advising paranoia! - but it is a valid question to ask of someone who is making decisions for you and your young horse to at least giver her opinion on such matters.

Give it a chance and give her a chance to explain. The theory itself isn't unsound but that seems a lot of "figuring out" for a young horse to do.
 
Yes I think I'm inclined to agree with you all, i'm not sure how it's going to really help with his training - for 3 weeks under saddle he is actually doing really really well and I don't want to do things that are going to make him wish he wasn't there! I think the issue of stopping on occasion is just inexperience, lack of attention span etc and felt really mean this morning when she was making me do it each time he stopped.
 
i personally think thats pish posh. surely schooling whip, forward riding and plenty of voice commands will egg him on. im not an instructor but certainly would never do this with my horse i think all you would end up with is a youngster with a sore mouth/neck and a dislike to schooling.
 
Reason for lesson was mainly for my benefit - not his! It's the first pony i've backed from scratch and wanted an educated opinion on how things were going, I think it's going too well! Don't want to push him too far too quickly, but he is just being so good at everything (except the odd "i'm not moving" episodes).
Hows this for a test - took him out accross the farm at weekend and whilst waiting for other half and dog to catch up he was creeping backwards - he touched the electric fence and got a shock up his backside - well I thought that was it, dumped and deserted, but no the little star was obv very put out but behaved immpeccably! Could not believe it!
 
Ummmmmmmm and he'll work out having his head flexed all over the place means keep trotting 'til asked otherwise how exactly???????????????????????? Get a new trainer before they confuse the hell out of you both!
 
EEK!!!! I would be inclined to keep him out of the school completely until been under saddle for a bit longer if he is already hacking out. Good for strengthening muscles so when he starts schooling properly he will find it a bit easy.....
 
Thanks moggy, thats what I was thinking, but being out of date with a few things thought I'd better check with you guys. This forum is soooo good for getting opinions on everything. luvin it luvin it luvin it!
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Yes that makes sense KatB, not thought of it like that, have been doing more schooling than hacking out at the mo, so will change regime and start hacking out more,less schooling. I should think they get pretty bored quickly anyway just walk,trot,walk,halt,walk,halt,walk,trot,walk,etc,etc,etc,yawwwwn!
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What good will pulling his head from side to side do?
All you are doing then is effectively pulling on the rein which basically means stop.
A horse this newly backed needs to be learning the basics ie, stop means stop trot means trot, yanking his head around will only get u an annoyed and confused horse!
 

Sounds bl**dy awful! So she's saying horses don't like discomfort so "hey lets make him uncomfortable to teach him what not to do!" what a load cr*p! Your horse is just a baby.

There's a solution if he goes back to walk - use your legs! and be assertive about what you want as you would with any youngster, simple.
 
Sounds pretty heavy handed for my liking, if he is just backed and going well give him some space, the fact he is being calm and helpful is a really good start. It is so easy to spoil a young horse that I would trust your instincts, take it slowly and make your sessions short but interesting. It sounds as though you are unhappy and so I would change for an instructor that wants your horse to enjoy it's schooling rather than one who sounds like they bully their horses. I have had a couple of friends use an instructor who is a little harsh in his schooling to say the least and they are now sorting out 6 & 7 year olds with real attitude problems as they do not enjoy their school work.

Best of luck, your horse already sounds as though it is doing well without that level of interference.
 
I havent read the other replies but I would change my instructor toot sweet. You backed him 3 weeks ago and are having lessons on him! What do the lessons involve?. Hes only a baby and in my opinion should be ridden on a longish rein and sent forwards only. He will need time to refind his natural balance and all this nonsense re pulling his head round can only be confusing him and making him rigid in the neck
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. Poor boy! Mairi.
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Very strange advice for a young horse. I would forget the lessons until he is a little more mature in his work and balance. I was told with my youngster to concentrate on forward thinking at all times, establish a good rythm and try to stick to it - defo use a schooling whip to back up your leg. Good luck with him
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The poor Chap might just be tired if hes only just been backed, i would only use whip to send him on, never heard such rubbish before from an instructor
 
i would find another instructer,i do not agree with this ones ideas.carry on like this and your horse will not be very pleased to see you which will lead to other problems.
 
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