Not sure I can do it - elderly mare - bit long, sorry

[Spotsrock]

My geriatric has a host of long term illnesses, cushings, arthritis, pyometra, suspected fading sight and previous liver issues.

Currently her liver looks good, her cushings is low grade with very little impact on day to day health and she is sound on half to 1 bute a day. She knows her environment well and seems unfazed by her dodgy sight to the point I'm not sure if I imagined it.

She is booked in to PTS at the end of this month and I am genuinely not sure if I can do it as she looks FAB! weight is good, coat is good, she's a happy bunny. Took her to a very local show a couple of weeks ago to do one veteran in hand class and she had a ball - cantered in the trot up (with me puffing along next to her, pregnancy bump and all!) and generally 'just' behaved herself. Even loaded well which my Dad looked quite pleased about given her history of awkwardness on this front - he did put a hell of a lot of work into fixing this problem when we first got her nearly 20 years ago.

She does seem to want to hang out in her stable a lot which is not like her, an hour or so out and she's about done, but she can't go out with my other 2 who she has lived with for a few years as we are at livery and she can't cope in the big field with 15 others and I have no where for all 3 of mine to be together so she is out with 2 of the livery owners mares. She does seem to like them a lot but I wonder if this could account for some of the stable fondness.

She had pyometra (womb infection, not nice) about 5 years ago and my wonderful vet managed to clean her out (very undignified) and treat with antibiotics to 'buy her a few weeks of sunshine'. She totally stopped discharging after the treatment. He is amazed how long she stayed great for. Last winter she started to discharge again and I booked the vet to assess/clean her out again. Her normal vet had broken his back so the practice offered their very experienced reproduction expert (it's a womb issue so spot on). Between booking and the visit (about a week) the weight fell off her and she about halved in bulk. Vet watched her drag hubs down the lane to the stable and compared her fight and spirit to her appearance, made the decision to clear her out again and treat with antibiotics. Took 2 goes but the wieght started to come back on and she now looks her usual fab self.

But - she is still discharging slightly, worse some days than others and no apparant discomfort. I have spent almost 20 years battling her weight in summer and this year she is well upholstered but not fat, she has had hard feed and good grass every day so she is not putting it on as she used to.

I booked PTS as I can't face her getting so poorly again over the winter and watching her suffer as the vet says it's unlikely she will pick up a third time, even if she is the wonder horse! But looking at her today all brave and strong and happy I am just not sure I can do it. My present condition is not helping, I cry over burnt toast! She is so pleased to see me and hubs, calling to us and ambling over the field to come in for tea and she loves her daily groom and cuddle even if I don't have very long to spend with her each day around work, pregnancy backache and exhaustion.

I know it's more fair to let her go with her dignity, strength and beauty in tact but it's just so hard to see such a healthy feisty horse and believe what a mess her inner workings are. She has all her teeth (bar one) and if it weren't for the pyometra would have maybe 5 - 10 years left. My daughter will never meet her, but will have her name for a middle name and I won't quite hit the 20 year owniversary with her.

Please tell me if I am doing the right thing. She's taken me so far (often at gallop without my permission) and taught me so much (whether I wanted to learn it or not) that it is critical I get this right. I do have her usual vet booked so will take a last minute opinion from him too.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

I am not sure about this one. However if you go ahead, you know that she will never need to suffer. It is worse to pts when they are suffering. I would take your vet's advice. The pyo is probably the deciding factor. Also your own health. Difficult decision but such a lucky mare to have such a caring thoughtful owner.

 

[PolarSkye]

Oh, here, have a hug - you certainly need one.

You are clearly a very loving and devoted owner who has always put her lovely old girl's health and well-being first . . . she is very, very lucky indeed to be in your care. You are the only person best placed to judge when it is time to call time . . . and only you.

If you want my permission to put her to sleep now, you certainly have it . . . and my sympathy . . . but trust your own judgement, it has never failed you before.

I will be thinking of you - and your beautiful old girl.

P

 

[_GG_]

Oh Spotsrock, you are going through what everyone goes through when this decision is being made. One minute you know with absolute certainty that you are doing the right thing at the right time and the next thing you know, you feel that you are playing god and taking life before it's ready to go. It is heartbreaking and extremely upsetting. I doubt you're thinking about much else at the moment either which I am sure is taking its toll on you.

You have a couple of weeks until the vet is due, so please do try to allow yourself time to just be her mum and enjoy her and not wrack yourself with guilt. Guilt in these situations is very misplaced. What you are planning is to ensure a dignified and peaceful end to her life before she knows the struggle of another winter. There are many people who can't make the decision you have made and their horses can suffer for it, so don't doubt yourself or your reasons for doing it. Just put it aside for the next two weeks and discuss fully with your vet on the day. As many will say, better a month too early than a day too late, but she is your horse and you know her, so it is for you to judge with your vets input when you get to that day.

Sending big hugs to you. xxx

 

[touchstone]

If you are in doubt then there is no rush providing the horse is happy and comfortable. The day that changes is the day to book her in. There would be nothing wrong in pts now, but for your own peace of mind it might be better to wait until she is ready.

 

[Goldenstar]

And hug from me too you are the sort of owner every old horse needs and many don't get.
You have to go with your gut , not mine or anyone else's , mine would tell me I would rather do it on a nice day in autumn than in the middle of a disaster in the middle of winter with bad weather and a sick horse .
Better too soon than too late is my belief but you know your horse best IME the run up to a planned PTS is very very hard on the owner .

 

[Spotsrock]

Thank you, I have always bottled it before but this time she has been so much more poorly and not picked up the same way. I haven't seen her canter apart from at the little show (2 bute and the excitement, and she only cantered about 3 strides!!) for a long time. My vet is keen to PTS, Dentist thinks she has 5 - 10 years left inher teeth and looks well in herself but the pyo is an unknown. Physio thinks she has a bit of time left inher joints and muscles but her facial muscles are loose (describes it as like over chewed chewing gum) so she does get choke if I feed her haylage or the wrong feed. YO thinks the time is now (and has known horse for about 15 years). Hubs thinks she looks good enough to make it through the winter (but is non horsey) and has offered to support her financially while I am on maternity pay. Old sharer thinks she's ready. Grrrrrrrrrrrr so hard **sobs quietly in office*

 

[swampdonkey]

I've not had the heartbreaking decision to make yet but from reading your post I think I would definitely cancel the appointment for now. You are clearly in two minds about this and its doing you no good whatsoever to be in this turmoil.

Vets can be arranged on short notice, you don't need to make this decision weeks in advance.
Tell yourself and your vet that the first day you notice your mare is uncomfortable and unhappy you will make the call there and then to come either that day or the day after.

You need to trust yourself to know when the time is right. I truly believe that when you know your horse she will tell you with her eyes and demeanour, you will know.

Hugs, it's a decision none of us want to make.

 

[acorn92x]

I am a firm believer that a horse will tell you when it is ready and I don't think she is. Yes, you could do it now, ahead of time but if she was mine, I wouldn't. I would personally give her time and allow your daughter to meet her providing she doesn't go downhill before then. In a situation like this you need to take each day as it comes - and when you meet the day where she tells you it's time - go from there.

I am so incredibly sorry that you find yourself in this position and please, please don't rush your decision. Lots of hugs and vibes being sent your way.

 

[3OldPonies]

I wish I had something constructive advice to offer. All I can say is that you must do what you think is right for her. You sound like a loving caring owner and whatever you decide you can take comfort from knowing that you are doing it for the right reasons.

 

[Loulou2002]

Hi Spotsrock, i have just been through exactly this myself with my 24 year old mare. She was fine in herself but her list of ailments included sinusitis (which we had operated on but kept re occurring ) and lameness behind from a suspensory ligament injury. She would eat everything and was quite a greedy horse but this year i was really struggling to keep weight on her which did happen a couple of winters ago when it was really cold but never in the summer. I would spend a fortune on hard feed to keep weight on her which i didn't mind i just wanted her to be well. She had been out of work for 8 years because of the lameness and was basically a pet. I know what you mean about them seeming fine in themselves etc. She had a lovely shiny coat and sometimes i would think no i think she'll be fine a bit longer and i'd change my mind again!
I really didn't think i would be able to make the PTS decision but one day i decided it would be best for her to go now rather than keep her going through another winter..........its almost like the decision was made for me with the weight issue. My vet was brilliant and it was very peaceful. I wasn't there as i was so upset but my friend held her and fed her treats and made a fuss of her. The vet said to me that she went out to so many horses last winter where owners had left them far to long and the horses had gone very downhill to much. We had picked a beautiful sunny day last month and shes buried at our yard in our back field.
It's such a hard decision but don't feel guilty. You are a brilliant owner and whatever you decide I'm sure you'll make the right choice.

 

[EternalVetBills]

Another big hug from me aswell. I feel for you, I really do. We are going through the same with our lovely old fella at the moment. He is thirty and is losing his eyesight too.
For the time being though he still seems happy, still whickers for his peppermints and gives the youngster the run around.
You're really the only one who can telk whether or not it's time yet, but I will just say that if she is still happy and enjoying life, let her enjoy it, let her be happy. The vet can always be called at the last minute, you don't have to make the decision just yet.
One more big hug and I wish you and your lovely old gal the best xx

 

[PolarSkye]

Thank you, I have always bottled it before but this time she has been so much more poorly and not picked up the same way. I haven't seen her canter apart from at the little show (2 bute and the excitement, and she only cantered about 3 strides!!) for a long time. My vet is keen to PTS, Dentist thinks she has 5 - 10 years left inher teeth and looks well in herself but the pyo is an unknown. Physio thinks she has a bit of time left inher joints and muscles but her facial muscles are loose (describes it as like over chewed chewing gum) so she does get choke if I feed her haylage or the wrong feed. YO thinks the time is now (and has known horse for about 15 years). Hubs thinks she looks good enough to make it through the winter (but is non horsey) and has offered to support her financially while I am on maternity pay. Old sharer thinks she's ready. Grrrrrrrrrrrr so hard **sobs quietly in office*

This is so, so hard . . . do you trust your vet?

P

 

[Wagtail]

I've not had the heartbreaking decision to make yet but from reading your post I think I would definitely cancel the appointment for now. You are clearly in two minds about this and its doing you no good whatsoever to be in this turmoil.

Vets can be arranged on short notice, you don't need to make this decision weeks in advance.
Tell yourself and your vet that the first day you notice your mare is uncomfortable and unhappy you will make the call there and then to come either that day or the day after.

You need to trust yourself to know when the time is right. I truly believe that when you know your horse she will tell you with her eyes and demeanour, you will know.

Hugs, it's a decision none of us want to make.

I agree with this. If you are having doubts then now isn't the time to do it. If you are the same kind of person as me, I just could not ever book a time to PTS. It would weight too heavily on my mind. You will know absolutely without doubt when the right time has come.

 

[Jnhuk]

Big hugs.

It is such a hard decision to take. I am in the better a day early than a day too late camp but at the same time you have to be happy and live with your decision rather than always mentally wondering if you did the right thing. It is easier when you know it is the right decision at the right time but tbh we don't always have that luxury and look for signs or this mysterious ' you just know'.

However, sometime the folks around us see the bigger picture better than us as we are too close and emotionally involved. If you trust your vet and YO, I would take on board their thoughts. Whether that time is today, tomorrow, next week or next month is your decision.

However I found when I made the decision for my old guy to be PTS on a certain date, the days running up to that date were very hard and emotional. After that I promised myself that in future once I have made the decision to PTS that I get it done sooner rather than later.

Big hugs

 

[ester]

If she is still discharging how much of her keeping her weight and condition are down to good grass? how likely is it she will start to drop weight when this stops?
It's not a case of making it through winter as hubs puts it but going through winter well and without pain or complications.
I don't think you have to do it now now, but be aware if the pyo gets worse or her weight starts to drop you may want to make a decision relatively quickly then.

 

[Wagtail]

I agree. Once the decision is made just get it done. I could not imagine what it is like to have the clock ticking away.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

A big hug & strength from me. I personally don't think she's ready. She'll let you know when she wants to go and at the moment I think she wants a bit more 'time in the sun'. How old is she? We have a very old 12.2hh 36y/o, who can get very thin in the winter, but other than that is healthy. She still runs around the field with the younger ones, and sometimes jumps the 3ft stone wall! It's up to you, you know her much, much better than any of us, but I would cancel the PTS at the end of the month.

 

[Spotsrock]

This is so, so hard . . . do you trust your vet?

P

Totally, he's phenomenal. But, he does mention costs of keeping occasionally - I have made clear that's not an issue. He's a real old school think outside the box genius.

 

[JJS]

A big hug & strength from me. I personally don't think she's ready. She'll let you know when she wants to go and at the moment I think she wants a bit more 'time in the sun'. How old is she? We have a very old 12.2hh 36y/o, who can get very thin in the winter, but other than that is healthy. She still runs around the field with the younger ones, and sometimes jumps the 3ft stone wall! It's up to you, you know her much, much better than any of us, but I would cancel the PTS at the end of the month.

I agree with this. I also wanted to add that you sound like a truly wonderful owner. Your mare is very lucky to have you.

 

[PolarSkye]

Totally, he's phenomenal. But, he does mention costs of keeping occasionally - I have made clear that's not an issue. He's a real old school think outside the box genius.

Hmmm . . . maybe have a chat with him about why he feels it's her time to go - taking the cost out of the equation and see what he says. Like you, I trust my vet implicitly and if he said it was time to let Pops go, I'd make that a massive part of the decision-making equation. Vets aren't known for recommending PTS lightly . . .

I'm sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear - it just jumped out at me from your post.

You are in such a difficult place right now - you really do have my sympathies.

P

 

[AAR]

I would do it sooner rather then later before she starts going downhill. Give her a week or two of feeling well and being spolit and then do the deed. You will be so much happier with the memories of a fresh old girl having her last couple of weeks feeling fabulous the her last few days/hours in pain.

Those last moments will stick in your brain however you try and not think about them. So make them memories that you will smile about.

 

[Spotsrock]

I would do it sooner rather then later before she starts going downhill. Give her a week or two of feeling well and being spolit and then do the deed. You will be so much happier with the memories of a fresh old girl having her last couple of weeks feeling fabulous the her last few days/hours in pain.

Those last moments will stick in your brain however you try and not think about them. So make them memories that you will smile about.

Thanku, she's 34 and last winter she couldn't get up everytime she lay down, it was horrid and this year im not going to be able to help her. She suffered last winter and survived but i feel guilty, i just know how bad ill feel if she suffers and doesn't survive the next time. She no longer canters in the field. She's less evil than she used to be and hasn't knocked me over for over a year!

 

[touchstone]

Thanku, she's 34 and last winter she couldn't get up everytime she lay down, it was horrid and this year im not going to be able to help her. She suffered last winter and survived but i feel guilty, i just know how bad ill feel if she suffers and doesn't survive the next time. She no longer canters in the field. She's less evil than she used to be and hasn't knocked me over for over a year!

Not being able to get up changes things for me, I'm sorry to say I'd pts now to avoid the risk of that happening again, 34 is a grand age for her. xxx

 

[Spring Feather]

I was going to respond by saying that I wouldn't put one of my horses down before it's time. You know when it's time and you make the call then. I've had ones who had the vet booked to PTS and then on the day cancelled - that was not their day to be PTS. However ... on reading further ...

Thanku, she's 34 and last winter she couldn't get up everytime she lay down, it was horrid and this year im not going to be able to help her. She suffered last winter and survived but i feel guilty, i just know how bad ill feel if she suffers and doesn't survive the next time. She no longer canters in the field. She's less evil than she used to be and hasn't knocked me over for over a year!

This ^^ would be a game changer for me. I would have her PTS before the winter if this is the case.

 

[Dusty M Yeti]

I'm of the thought too that better a day/week too early than a day too late. From what you've said OP your mares condition will almost definitely deteriorate over winter. I was faced with a decision like this a month ago with my boy who was well enough in himself day to day but had a condition that meant he would ne suffering soon. I made the decision to pts and booked it in for the next week - the whole week I was wracked with turmoil, on the morning the vet was due I nearly cancelled! I'm SO glad I didn't, once the deed was done I knew I'd done the right thing (as heart-breaking as it was ).

To have been faced with an 'emergency' pts would have been so much worse than letting him go without suffering.

Only you can make the decision for your mare but do listen to other that know her well, they can probably see the bigger picture more clearly.

Hugs OP its hard, I know x

 

[Wagtail]

I would do it sooner rather then later before she starts going downhill. Give her a week or two of feeling well and being spolit and then do the deed. You will be so much happier with the memories of a fresh old girl having her last couple of weeks feeling fabulous the her last few days/hours in pain.

Those last moments will stick in your brain however you try and not think about them. So make them memories that you will smile about.

You see I'm the complete opposite. The absolute WORST bit of putting my mare to sleep was the fact that she was so happy and cheery. But she had absolutely no chance of ever just being a horse again, and so I had to do it. It was awful. She trusted me. She was happy and I killed her. Even though I knew that soon she would be miserable and I was making the right choice. If it was a case of her just getting old with ailments that were taking their toll, I would have waited until she was ready to go, and I would have known when that time was.

 

[Wagtail]

Thanku, she's 34 and last winter she couldn't get up everytime she lay down, it was horrid and this year im not going to be able to help her. She suffered last winter and survived but i feel guilty, i just know how bad ill feel if she suffers and doesn't survive the next time. She no longer canters in the field. She's less evil than she used to be and hasn't knocked me over for over a year!

Just seen this. She is older than I was imagining, and if she finds it hard to get up in the winter, then perhaps you need to be strong for her. It's such a difficult decision.

 

[Grumpy Herbert]

Oh dear, I really feel for you. But I think you're decision is right. Winter takes its toll on the fittest and healthiest of oldies, let alone one with lots of things wrong with them. I know she's looking, and obviously feeling, well, but what if she goes downhill very quickly - will you beat yourself up for not going ahead with having her pts sooner? I think as your pregnant too, then it's going to be hard on you if the decision is forced on you because she has deteriorated to a point where there is no choice but to pts.

I had my beloved old boy pts when summer was coming to an end. He was fit and feisty, but had arthritis and struggled to get up if he'd gone down for a roll or a snooze. I couldn't bear to see him like that, so made the decision and gave myself plenty of time (as you have) to come to terms with it. I couldn't bring myself to be there on the day, as I knew I would go to pieces and didn't want his last conscious moment to be me bawling my eyes out, and also I knew I might not go through with it. My husband and a friend took care of it for me. It was a peaceful and dignified end, and I know it was the right thing to do.
Whatever your decision is, it will be the right one for you and your mare. If you need a bit longer, take a bit longer. You clearly love your horse and I know you will do what's best. xx

 

[AAR]

You see I'm the complete opposite. The absolute WORST bit of putting my mare to sleep was the fact that she was so happy and cheery. But she had absolutely no chance of ever just being a horse again, and so I had to do it. It was awful. She trusted me. She was happy and I killed her. Even though I knew that soon she would be miserable and I was making the right choice. If it was a case of her just getting old with ailments that were taking their toll, I would have waited until she was ready to go, and I would have known when that time was.

I have seen too many old ponies start to go downhill and the owner, after saying 'as soon as she gets worse she will be PTS' holding on and hanging off any tiny improvement the pony makes day to day saying 'oh but look shes eaten 2 more mouthfuls then yesterday' 'oh look shes walked further, shes better today.'

The deed then only gets done when the pony has constant diarrhoea from the insides rotting, skinny as a rake and can barely walk.