not sure if I am being cruel to my pony/

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hackedoff

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He is 19 years old and been shod since 3. I am trying barefoot due to concerns about his pasterns and odd lumps which have now gone down. He has been barefoot nearly two months and is still very foot sore on hard ground or stones. His front frogs are also sloughing off. I lead him out about 1/8 mile tonightn and he ended up with one hind leg held up and then lame due to standing on a sharp stone and one of his front frogs bled as he walked along.

I am seriously worried as his winter turnout is on a bare earth and stone quary field -he will go onto it in a months time. He is very subdued and not very happy. I am concerned that I am putting him through a lot of discomfort for nothing as I suspect the lack of work has made lumps go away. Husband says stay withit till spring and then see.

He has hoof boots but doesnt seem very happy in them. I am so tempted just to get him re shod. I feel very very worried and dont know what to do for the best.
 
My 33 year old has been shod, certainly since I bought him 27 years ago. My farrier advised to stop shoeing him on the back as he tended to lean on him.

I tried it for a few months, although his feet were OK he really really hated it. From running around playing he started to hobble and not want to go out.

I couldn't stand it any longer and he is ridden sometimes so I changed the farrier and had him shod. No problems since.

Unless your vet advised it I would get a good farrier out

Good luck
 
I would put shoes back on if he were mine. If he has managed 19yrs with shoes on not sure why you would want to try barefoot?

Sorry dont mean to sound horrid.

I would say if he is in pain an clearly uncomfortable since you have taken them off i would put them back on again.
 
I would have him reshod. At age 19 yrs his feet are well adjusted to shoes.

I do not see how having a lame horse is acceptable when the solution is right in front of you.

Jane
 
Sorry - don't mean to hijack post (by the way I wonder whether you have tried Keratex hoof hardener - I think it's fab - but I'd also get farrier back out to re-assess whether horse is coping) - but is that really a rabbit in your sig?

It's supercallifrag if it is.......!
 
Id get his shoes back on asap.
There are a variety of different breeds on our yard, some are shod all round, some just the front and 2 have just had all shoes took off as they no longer work. This is mainly down to cost for their owner but they are both coping well, its about 3 weeks now. One oldy is shod all round as he is mostly TB and would not cope without shoes whereas a WB has fronts only and is in ridden work and copes fine.
I think if hes still so foot sore then they need to go back on.
 
If your ground is stoney and hard it isn't fair to ask him to live on it when he's uncomfortable just being led short distances on it
 
Get him shod. My horse had all his shoes taken off on advice of my previous farrier when he was only 7 years old. I persevered for 3 months in an attempt to improve his hooves. He was crippled with it for the entire time, utterly miserable, and stood in his field shelter for most of the day looking unhappy. This was in a grassy field. Kept calling farrier for advice due to no improvement, and he said to leave them off. Eventually called vet to get a referral as the farrier refused to come & see him in between scheduled trimming. Got a referral, and this farrier put a set on straight away stating that he needs them. My horse went sound within an hour, and by the evening was cantering round the field (no exaggeration) happier than I'd seen him in months. Some horses just need shoes I'm afraid. I'm all for barefoot if workload & hoof quality allows, but its not for my horse. The referral farrier is still my farrier now. My horse has kept shoes on ever since.
 
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Sorry - don't mean to hijack post (by the way I wonder whether you have tried Keratex hoof hardener - I think it's fab - but I'd also get farrier back out to re-assess whether horse is coping) - but is that really a rabbit in your sig?

It's supercallifrag if it is.......!

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Yep, its a fluffy bunny
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He has been barefoot nearly two months and is still very foot sore on hard ground or stones. His front frogs are also sloughing off. I lead him out about 1/8 mile tonightn and he ended up with one hind leg held up and then lame due to standing on a sharp stone and one of his front frogs bled as he walked along.

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If he was already footsore, then why on earth would you do that to the poor horse..?!
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Like your name.

I think you have given the boy a fair chance, personally, I'd get those shoes back on him, he sounds as if he'll be more comfortable. Being unshod doesn't suit all of them.
 
Hi hackedoff,

I'd get the advice of a good farrier, if it was my pony.

I'm currently struggling to make a connection between your 'concerns about his pasterns', + 'odd lumps' + subsequent decision to take his shoes off. Please could you explain a little more? (Like, who advised you that taking his shoes off would help?)

As it appears at the moment, from your information:

Yes, it does appear that you're being cruel.

Holding a leg up, + bleeding from another foot is pretty serious stuff.

And i'm wondering what the purpose is, and your reasons for believing that taking an old-ish pony's shoes off will help him, when he's obviously suffering more as a consequence? (It sounds, from your description, that he's probably got some arthritic changes in his lower joints, which is very common at his age, + this is what is causing 'lumps'. And what exactly are your concerns about his pasterns? And how will removing his shoes help this?)

Please, please get a good farrier/vet/other qualified professional to look at him ASAP is my plea.
 
Reading through my comments, it sounds like i'm stroppy, which i'm not. Apologies, just trying to get full picture, which is impossible from a forum, so please, please get a good, locally recommended farrier - today! BS x
 
Hi All

quick post pre work...I had a strong concern that he had the onset of ringbone and theoretically removing shoes and concussion reduces this or can cure it. I was also concerned about the way his heels had become very underrun with shoes. He is actually sound and will canter on grass in his field. But I am very strongly of the opinion that this isnt right for him. I cant ask my farier as he is anti -barefoot, I have used a barefoot trimmer.

Vet was not much use with the ring bone thing as once they knew pony isnt insured for treatement to his front legs (another story) they just told me he was getting old and that was it!

Puppy the theory is that walking on hard ground helps the hoof develop and toughen up and yes I felt a complete s%*%t last night doing so.

Natailie -H , that sounds much like mine is now.

On the cost front this actually costs more (if any one thought it was a credit crunch special! £35 trim every 4 weeks and £125 for his front hoof boots v £70 to shoe every 7 weeks)
Anyway thanks guys the usual forums I am on are full of barefoot is best people I needed one where people said it like it is!
 
i had shoes off my horse when he was 24 and it took him probably around 6 or 7 months maybe longer until he was comfortable and have just had them off 12 year old well last october and he is still very picky over stones
 
1st I would get his shoes back on as he sounds too uncomfortable.

Secondly I would have asked my farrier before having shoes taken off. My farrier actually advised me to have my horses shoes off last winter, she was sound on all surfaces (except mega stony, where she was slightly footy). She had her shoes off all winter, then put back on in the Spring as her hoof could cope with the wet and work combined. Is your farrier actually against barefoot, or did just not think it was right for yours?
 
Four horses at my yard went barefoot about a year ago and are done by a barefoot trimmer. Three of them are still foot sore and the one who now gets trimmed by the farrier has become sound. The barefoot trimmer charges £35 and trims every four weeks and I dread seeing the poor horses hobble about straight after their trim. The horse that sees the farrier is done about every 8 weeks for £15 and is sound and happy. I can't get my head around why the others carry on with the barefoot trimmer, perhaps its because she's told them it can take 2 years for it to 'work' for them.
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An old pony of mine went barefoot and was just trimmed by the farrier when necessary and I had no problems whatsoever from the start and hacked on the road most of the time.
 
I'm a total barefoot convert, but in your case I think I'd be unhappy too. Could you try just putting front shoes back on to start with and see if he could cope with bare behind - mine all wear boots when we hack on stones, but only on their fronts, and they get on fine where they would be very slow and uncomfy without the boots ie the stones don't have nearly such an effect on their hinds.
The other thing you could try is some comfort pads for the boots, although it it's just the general feel of the boots your horse doesn't like that obviously won't help.
 
I was advised to take my horse's shoes off by the farrier as his hooves were breaking up.

He had his shoes off for 9 months over the winter, but as spring came and the ground dried up, he became sore and reluctant to walk, so his shoes were put on.

Shoe pads can help concusion.

It would be a good idea to talk to your vet and farrier. If it was my horse, he would be having his shoes put on ASAP.

It sounds like your horse is too sore to have any benefit from Keratex etc and that your horse is in more pain from barefoot than the ring bone.
 
What does your trimmer say about the situation, specifically about the bleeding etc? Frogs do slough off, but I don't think they generally bleed all over the place while doing it? While it can certainly take more than 2 months until the horse is fine on stones etc., it sounds from your desciption like your horse is having excessive problems.

I'm also generally pro-barefoot, but with the caution that because the profession is unregulated, you need to be very careful when you are looking for a trimmer. Can you get the trimmer to talk to the vet about this? Or find a more open-minded farrier? Where are you located?
 
My experiences of barefoot are as follows.Spooky one (last pony) was a pure bred native.He came to me barefoot and coped well.I did use a barefoot trimmer for a while.They did a better trim IMHO than the farrier I had THEN. He came about every 8 weeks and horse most definately not foot sore after trim or ever actually. Now have a welsh section D.Came only with fronts.Tried barefoot.Just didn't work for him.Now has fronts on and looked happier the minute they went on.Have new farrier as well.He is good.I would put shoes back on yours.Try fronts first and a wholeset if necessary.
 
Are you sure your farrier is 'anti barefoot' - maybe he was just anti this particular horse going barefoot, knowing his feet etc.

I would put this poor horses shoes back on a heartbeat - put then I have no strong feelings either way about barefoot, so my only concern would be my horse's comfort.
A
 
From the sounds fo it the going barefoot option isn't woring for your horse OR maybe the barefoot trimmer isn't that brillant?!

I have just taken the back shoes off my 23 yo pony as, now it's coming into winter he really will not get hacked out much. He has very very good feet (he is native cross) and has, in the past lost a back shoe, was taken on a hacke (albeit short) and he didn't seem to notice at all!

If my horse however loses a shoe then you'd think he'd lost his foot!!! I wouldn't attempt to evet take his shoes off as he has crappy feet.

Each horse is different - if it's not working and your horse is miserable then i would get the shoes back on asap, I don't see the point of putting a horse through discomfort and misery on purpose! Also quiz your farrier - I don't believe farriers are anti barefoot in the main but they do tend to be able to judge whether a horse is going to able to cope barefoot as they will know that particular horse's feet if they are the regular farrier.

You never know, your farrier may actually be able to trim the feet better than the barefoot trimmer!
 
my section A is barefoot & bless him only a little footsore if we cross the gravel driveway (but think i would too).
farrier comes out every 8 weeks to check him but has only trimmed twice in the last year, the boy has fantastic feet bless him.
i agree with the advice to get vet & a good nutral farrier.
good luck with it.
 
Hackedoff, mine has RB in front. Vet recommended lateral extensions on front and back (has spavins behind) and worked closely with my farrier. Vet sent farrier the x-rays and farrier shod according to those. My horse has never been so well. Lateral extensions are really helping to support him, plus he has side clips as well which are helping to change the shape of his foot over time which is also helping with the support.

If you can afford it, it's worth getting your vet to write you a prescription for Adequan. You can get it for a couple of £100 online I think. It will help with the ringbone and help to make him more comfortable.
 
QR

Sadly not all barefoot trimmers are as good as each other, and they do not have to study and qualify for as long as farriers. I would ditch your barefoot trimmer and find another farrier, one who isn't allergic to barefoot horses, to give you their opinion.
 
3 of mine are barefoot and cope quite well, once shod they are a bit sore on the stones but this soon stops and they get on perfectly well without shoes. However some horses (due to breed, length of time shod etc) find it quite hard to switch between fully shod and barefoot. Did you start off by taking the back shoes off only? We did this with one of ours and eventually took off her fronts, now she's happy barefoot.

It just depends on your horse, the condition of the ground and feet. I'd probably suggest shoes back on since it sounds like he is hurting a lot more than most that are barefoot
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If your poor horse is still sore after two miserable months, and you are going to turn him out on stones all winter, I would have thought the word 'cruel' would just about sum up what you are doing to him
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I have never really understood the mentality of those people who take shoes off their horses because they think it's more 'natural' and then watch their horses in agony for months waiting for them to 'adjust'.
Makes me want to cry, frankly
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I am sure you have done it for the best, but from what you say, I think you have given barefoot a fair trial and it's not suiting your horse. It cannot be pleasant watching him suffering so much when you could so easily put a stop to it.
 
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