Not sure what to do next

[sam72431]

Sorry for this potentially very long post

I own a 4 1/2 yo hano who I've owned since he was 16 months, he has grown ALOT bigger than expected and now stands at 17.3

I backed him at three with no issues and turned him away for a year, i began work again in the spring and we soon progressed to trot work with no issues, until one day we were trotting a circle and had been on the other rein and had already done a circle on that rein too when he decided to throw a strop, he went mad and after about three huge bucks/bronco combo he had me off, i got back on and he was a little nervous but soon settled and we managed to trot again with not issue. I was only riding once or twice a week as my instructor came once a week and I wasnt happy at this stage to ride him with no on else around and i could only rarely have someone up at the yard with me, but i was still longreining him and taking him for walks etc.

A few weeks went by with no problem and then one day i got on and he walked a few strides and took of broncing again he got me off very quickly, i got back on and he was fairly tense he tried to do it again but i managed to pull him up and calm him before he got going, he gradually settled and we ended on a good note.

I decided he really needed to be ridden every other day and a friend said she was happy to come up with me to help, we longreined him and he went beatifully, i got on the mounting block in the school and started to get ready to mount (patting, leaning over etc) as i sat down he went mad and got me off, my friend was shocked as he is so laid back on the ground, I tried to lean over him and he did it again.

I got the physio out, she found some soreness, which was possibly saddle related although looking at the saddle she didnt think the fit was awfull just could be better (I was using a wintec (yes i know there not great) but its nice and light and was adjusted to the correct width) She did however say that he was pretty weak and after a few weeks suggested i got the vet to check there wasnt an underlying reason, unfortunately at this point i got made redundant and couldnt afford any extra bills especially as I knew he wasnt in pain i decided it could wait until i could afford it, I'm working again and had the vet out a week or so ago to do his teeth (which were fine) and vacinations she looked at his back and said he wasnt weak enough to give her cause for concern, I had noticed that his topline had dramatically improved during the few months since the physio came, so this is possibly due to the physio of maybe he just needed a bit longer to grow as he is so big. The vet said she was happy for me to begin longreining to get his strengh up and then ride him.

Phew so now you know the history here is my dilemma

Ideally i would like to get a properly fitted saddle, BUT to fit a saddle you need to ride, also I am going to admit even though i am normally not nervous my confidence has taken a battering and please before you say I shouldnt of bough a youngster i have broken in horses before and never had a problem, without sounding boastful i am a good rider, i have in the past ridden racehorses, general nutters that no one else would ride and I'm fairly good at staying on, but as I know im nervous and happy to admit that i am i dont think its fair for me to transmit my nerves to him, so i have and instructor who i've used before and was impressed with that knowing the history is willing to get on, but should that be in the wintec or can i get a saddle fitted without riding in? Once i have seen him being ridden a few times i'll be happy to get on but i am debating whether to just send him away to be broken and then I'm going to decide if i sell or keep him, but as he is at the moment i dont think it would be fair to him or the new owner to sell. Also just to add I'm not made of money I can afford a saddle for about £500 especially as he is growing etc. So what would you do? Sorry for the long post but i needed to explain everything, I have added a pic of him in the summer, his topline is much better now but just so you can see the general shape of him I will try and get a better one tonight if needed. Thanks again!

 

[PonyIAmNotFood]

Not nice, why do warm blood types seem to love having all 4 feet off the ground so much? Id send him for schooling personally, the airs above the ground don't sound fun and i certainly wouldn't want to sit to them and risk getting hurt.

 

[nixxyz]

sorry to hear your having problems. i for one would ditch the wintec, some horses cant deal with the pressure points the gullet bars create as they're not straight. my wb hated her wintec the more i rode her the worse she got, to the point she wouldnt let me on (she was 17hh) so i would get the saddler out and try some alternatives.

 

[lcharles]

I have similar problem with my 17hh ISH! x had 2 months of rodeo bucking to test me out, got past that stage even though he has a few wobbles still but generally alot better! x Been competing recently but now he'll rodeo buck with excitement! x like you, im a confident rider that will sit on most horses that many people wouldn't but after saturday i am considering sending him off for schooling x He's a stroppy sod but will go lovely once you've 'won' with him! x it annpys me when everyone tells me to sell him as i can see he has brilliant potential....just have to get past this!! x

its hard to know what to do but i'd send him away to be schooled, then get a saddle fitted. The professionals schooling him will have a saddle i'd imagine to use on him x

 

[MrVelvet]

I would send him away to a professional. Then get yourself involved, have a lesson with the breaker who will by then know your horse! In the meantime have some lessons on something nice and quiet (not trying to be patronising but it does help to let you learn to like the sport again ) or ride something else nice and quiet. The professional will most likely have a saddle to stick on him and know enough about fit to make a do (eek that sounded awful, I just mean he will most probably get something that fits or amend his original saddle with pads to make it comfortable) and then when he is comfortable being ridden, get the saddler out to the breaker's yard to assess him and fit him with a nice saddle

Good Luck xx

 

[annunziata]

Ohh poor you that does not sound good at all!! I have a large 17hh warmblood that like to be a prat and alot of the issues were down to the saddle and his back being sore. I started out with an ideal and then bit the bullet and got one fitted a bates. my biggest problem was his vast shoulders. It maybe worth having a saddles come out and draw you a template that you can take to the second hand saddle shop to try to find one????

 

[be positive]

I think that as he is still not yet ridden away as such, I would leave him a little longer, send him away to be restarted and then have a ride on him before making any decisions.
He looks as if he is still lacking muscle behind the wither, this could be due to age, lack of work or the saddle so I would be inclined to not use the Wintec in case it has caused this.
Get him long reining and working well on the ground, then either send away or arrange for someone to come in daily to ride. I like to do little and often with youngsters sometimes they can work twice a day then a day or two off but it needs to be consistent and hopefully progressive, which often cannot be done at home.

 

[Countrychic]

I would wait until we are over the worst weather then send him away aiming to get him back when you have the light and weather to do something every day. In the meantime I would work on him daily for short periods lunging and long reining sometimes using a Pessoa to build up his strength.

 

[Tammytoo]

Difficult decisions! I think your idea of getting him broken by an experienced professional is probably the way to go if your confidence has taken a bit of a knock. He is a very big boy now and may even get bigger if he is only 4 years old and a big youngster needs a 100% confident rider. If you send him away in a few weeks' time it will be at least 6 weeks before he can be ridden properly, so you will then be into Spring and the longer days. You could ride him at the trainers yard before you bring him home before you decided whether to keep or sell him.

Are you absolutely sure it isn't pain related? I had a mare with kissing spine who reacted in the same way. Lovely to handle on the ground, but gradually the explosive bucking increased the more she was ridden. KS can only be detected by x-rays and not by external examination.

Good luck and keep us posted,

 

[scarymare]

Well he is chestnut.....

Sorry, no in all seriousness I do think you should send him away to be started again. You aren't in a great place confidence wise and I realise that it will cost money (you need to get him very well done) but I cant see another way ahead. If you sell you will get nothing for him as he is outside most people's ideal heights.

As for the saddle I'd go down the WOW route tbh. they are really cheap on ebay and you will have a saddle for life whatever horse you choose. They are also Very, very secure if you get a deep seat jumping!

 

[sam72431]

Thanks everyone I've had so many thoughts going round and round my head, I dont want to sell him if I can help it as he has huge potential and has an absolutely lovely temperament! So my next question where do I send him? I'm based in West Sussex near Chichester, obviously I dont have to send him anywhere on my doorstep but I dont want him more than about two hours away, I have my other horse to ride who was a nutter but is actually very calm now (after six years of hard graft from me) so I'll rebuild my confidence with her. If anyone has got any recommendations that would be greatly appreciated, also what can i expect to spend I'm hoping my gradparents will lend me the money as i think its probably going to be costly, also how long should i build him up for before sending him away, he hasnt done anything since about september/october, i've had someone suggest he should be a bit weak so he isnt too much of a handful and other saying i should get him as strong as possible, sorry for all the qs!

Yeah ginger horses who'd have them lol

 

[sam72431]

Sorry meant to say that the vet was happy from checking his back that there wasnt any pain, he wasnt fussed having his back checked by her and she said from kissing spines he would show a reaction and he wasnt so she was happy for me to try working him to see what happens, although she said once we have determined what is causing the behaviour (as in whether it is all the time or just certain things) this will help us decide if its just naughty behaviour or pain related, and then she said we can do xrays but she didnt see the point in spending lots of money on potentially exspensive treatment if its not necessary, I love that my vet lives in the real world

 

[Tammytoo]

Well, if I had the choice I would use Michael Peace www.thinkequus.com He has a lovely non-confrontational way with horses and sorted out my mare's loading problems very sympathetically. He seems to be able to get inside your horse's mind and recognise what their problem is. He is in Oxfordshire so not sure if that is too far away? It might be worth having a chat with him.

With all due respect to your vet it is NOT possible to detect kissing spine from external palpation. My mare was happily poked and prodded, had physio, McTimony etc and didn't react. It was only when the vet saw her reaction at being ridden that they x.rayed - 5 kissing spine! Hopefully this will not be the case with your boy.

 

[Winklepoker]

You are not far from me, I know some wonderful folk around here who I am sure would be able to help you x

 

[sam72431]

Oh wow, yeah the vet did say without xraying she cannot guarantee there is no kissing spines but said that she was happy to start ridden work to see what happens now he has had physio work and as much as we can tell for now he isnt in pain she didnt think i should xray just yet, obviously if the behavious continues i will get him xrayed, Michael does look really good but unfortunately i just cant afford that kind of money, it works out at about £450 a week with the VAT added and I just cant do it

 

[scarymare]

Sam, don't worry about not affording Michael Peace. What you need (and I'm nowhere near you to suggest someone) is somebody who will do with the horse what you want to do. Ie there are some up here that will have them out at a dressage comp/sj clinic et within 8 weeks, also hacking out (if required) what you dont want is a yard where they hand them back having just been in arena or round farm. Speak to some competition riders - and (from bitter experience) you need to be there riding at least 4 days in a row before taking him back. Just so if he does try you again you have help.

 

[sam72431]

Yeah the trouble is im 'only' 23 and i pay for my horses (i own another one apart from this one) and pay for them all myself as well as my car etc so I'm always pretty poor, yeah i think thats wise, how many weeks building up would you suggest before i send him away, I dont want whoever i send him to, to have to spend time doing longreining etc and therefore boosting the cost that i can do myself before he goes as I do know how to longrein properly and there are no major issues on the ground apart from the odd woohoo moment but nothing i cant handle! Thanks

 

[beeswax]

he has beautiful feet must be because he keeps them off the ground so much, good luck!!

 

[scally]

You can certainly do not better than Jim Goddard or Rosie Jones to re back your horse, they are very local to you, both are Recomended Associates and you really cannot give you horse a better start in their ridden career. www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/specialist-horse-training.html

 

[sam72431]

Thanks everyone, just need to decide who to send him to and start ringing round, yeah I'm very lucky with his feet although as you say they do little weight bearing

Just so you can see how he is looking now, this is a fairly bad pic i took last night, please excuse how um 'well' he is looking

Also should i start long reining now before he goes and how long for? Or should i wait until I find a trainer and let them decide? Thanks

 

[Countrychic]

IMO I would do whatever you can do with him because the less they Have to do the less it will cost you and you are sending him away physically ready to cope with ridden work. I wouldn't do anything that you struggle with as you don't want him to get into bad habits such as learning to buck you off.
I'm no where near you so can't help with recommendations but because you are quite over horsed (as am I) bear that in mind when choosing someone. If you get a huge strapping man that rides strongly you will be a big change for the horse. Good luck