Not the norm to take responsibility of your own horse?

[ljohnsonsj]

A rant i'm afraid. I put a post on a few weeks ago about me being kicked whilst helping out a local show. Down right nasty horse, walked out the ring where i was doing the gate and side swiped right at me. Accidents happen yes, but I didn't get so much as an apology from the rider.

Anyway, was out jumping at a show yesterday, the class was a qualifier so understandably busy and the warm up was packed. For this reason I decided to stand out for a while and then just popped a few jumps before I went in. In the warm up, was a horse that was about 10-12 horses after me, and I was about 15th to go, kicking out at other horses and rearing/bucking in the warm up, making a big performace but putting other people at risk and by kicking and hitting the horse, the rider was just winding it up more making it more dangerous. I understand young/problem horses do need to get out to shows, but where is the responsibilty? My youngster will soon be going to shows, and I will make sure she is either one of the first to go so I can warm up when it's quiet and people are course walking or I will go last, again so the warm up is quiet and I aren't putting anyone at risk. Said horse in the warm up later was stood in the collecting ring and kicked out at a young girl, got her right in the hip. The horse had been playing up all day so WHY was it stood in a busy collecting ring, again surely the responsible thing would be to take it out to the wagon whilst waiting for course change etc. I don't know, a pointless rant really but it upsets me as these things make us all look bad, puts people off going to shows and just shows how disrespectful some riders really are! It is not our responsibilty (as riders) to go out to a show and spend all our time watching out for horses that are playing up who's riders are making the problem worse rather than nipping it in the bud, it makes it less enjoyable for everyone

 

[Lauren_abigail]

I think the problem here by the sounds of it is that the rider was clearly a numpty!

Did she not have a red ribbon on the horse?

God, I would be mortified if my horse did that when out and about. And full of apologies!!

Understandable rant I think!

 

[Equi]

I do not think being young is an excuse for kicking. No horse should be allowed to kick out at anyone. Upbringing is majorly to do with that!

 

[ljohnsonsj]

I think the problem here by the sounds of it is that the rider was clearly a numpty!

Did she not have a red ribbon on the horse?

God, I would be mortified if my horse did that when out and about. And full of apologies!!

Understandable rant I think!

Not at all, just someone equally as numpti-ish on the ground shouting 'smack him, smack him' while the rider was hanging on!

I do not think being young is an excuse for kicking. No horse should be allowed to kick out at anyone. Upbringing is majorly to do with that!

Oh me too, the woman who had the horse that kicked me used that excuse ( without an apology) I could of slapped her! Don't know why they think age has anything to do with it, if they let it get away with it when does it stop, does it get to 7-8 and is magically not a youngster anymore and starts to get a rollocking whenever it mishbehaves? I don't know, a test of common knowledge should be done before anyone can own a horse

 

[muckypony]

Unacceptable from the horse, young or not. But judging by the riders reaction I doubt it has much discipline, so probably doesn't know any better.

The organisers are also at fault. It really is up to them in that instance to ask her to remove herself.

 

[ester]

Pretty shocking stewarding!

Hope they gave their insurance details to the injured person.

 

[Polar Bear9]

If my horse kicked someone working at an event I would apologise profusely, probably go out and buy the person a bottle of wine or some chocolates as an apology and not take my horse out in public again until it could be trusted. Unacceptable.

With regards to the warm up, it's a situation I have seen countless times. At a show last weekend I saw someone's horse strike out with its front legs at a rider on another horse. He was inches away from getting her in the head (she was on a small pony, this was a big horse). Warm ups must surely be the responsibility of the event organisers?

 

[ljohnsonsj]

If my horse kicked someone working at an event I would apologise profusely, probably go out and buy the person a bottle of wine or some chocolates as an apology and not take my horse out in public again until it could be trusted. Unacceptable.

With regards to the warm up, it's a situation I have seen countless times. At a show last weekend I saw someone's horse strike out with its front legs at a rider on another horse. He was inches away from getting her in the head (she was on a small pony, this was a big horse). Warm ups must surely be the responsibility of the event organisers?

Yeah I agree, some places round us only let in the next x amount to go, usually 8-10. Then stand in the collecting ring. How far can the organisers go though, having a horse like that in the warm up is stupid of the rider,she needed to be told and needed to be educated. Or maybe she was just a rude person, with no common courtesy for other people and their safety and unfortunatley I feel its the 2nd option

 

[deicinmerlyn]

Because they are stupid and uneducated and actually some people like their horse's behaving like that. It annoys me because taking out a tense spooky horse that you expect to behave becomes worse with that sort of appalling behaviour going on around it.

 

[ester]

What do you mean how far can organisers go? Do you not think it would have been appropriate for them to ask the competitor to leave the warm up/collecting ring?

 

[Red-1]

I see both sides. One of my eventers would be up tight in the collecting ring if it were too busy, so much so that sometimes I would warm up for SJ in the dressage area where there was space for order to reign, then simply walk through the SJ warmup if it was manic, and go straight in. If the SJ warmup was orderly she was fine.

One day she was warming up fine, and the ring itself was orderly, but there was a big group of people on horses at the entrance, and I had my place to go, but the steward kept putting people in in front of me, because I was not "lined up" in a crowded entrance. I warmed up for more than half an hour as she kept letting people in, despite my OH telling her that lining up in a crowd would not be sensible for this horse. She insisted, so we did, and when it was my time to go the horse had still contained herself, but was jogging on the spot and front end light as she was crowded in at the entrance.

As the other horse finished the steward dropped the rope and stepped about 4 ft forward for us to go through the narrow gap. I, sat aside the jogging tense mare, asked her to make more space as it was not wide enough. By this time the horse was cantering on the spot, but still the steward assured me there was enough space, and I KNOW she was busy, and flustered, but I was trapped in a crowd, and could not stand to argue, so I went for the 4 ft gap.

No one was injured, but the clip board in that lady's hand flew rather high. Seems the 4 ft gap was not wide enough after all!

It can be hard to manage a crowded entrance, a tight gap, and atmosphere. The mare was trained, but was 3 day fit, and ready to jump. It would have helped if the entrance to the ring was not allowed to be congested. It would help if stewards opened the rope far enough that horses are not squashed there too.

The other side is that with my new horse he is a cool dude, but does not like other horses kicking at him! I wish more people would take a leaf out of my book when I had the mare, and not stay in the collecting ring if it is not appropriate.

 

[OWLIE185]

If a horse is seen to kick out then the organisers should insist that the owner removes it from the show ground as the resultant accident could prove to be fatal.
However small the show the organisers need to ensure that every rider has third party public liability insurance and that they also have it in the event of an accident.

 

[Annagain]

I see both sides. One of my eventers would be up tight in the collecting ring if it were too busy, so much so that sometimes I would warm up for SJ in the dressage area where there was space for order to reign, then simply walk through the SJ warmup if it was manic, and go straight in. If the SJ warmup was orderly she was fine.

One day she was warming up fine, and the ring itself was orderly, but there was a big group of people on horses at the entrance, and I had my place to go, but the steward kept putting people in in front of me, because I was not "lined up" in a crowded entrance. I warmed up for more than half an hour as she kept letting people in, despite my OH telling her that lining up in a crowd would not be sensible for this horse. She insisted, so we did, and when it was my time to go the horse had still contained herself, but was jogging on the spot and front end light as she was crowded in at the entrance.

As the other horse finished the steward dropped the rope and stepped about 4 ft forward for us to go through the narrow gap. I, sat aside the jogging tense mare, asked her to make more space as it was not wide enough. By this time the horse was cantering on the spot, but still the steward assured me there was enough space, and I KNOW she was busy, and flustered, but I was trapped in a crowd, and could not stand to argue, so I went for the 4 ft gap.

No one was injured, but the clip board in that lady's hand flew rather high. Seems the 4 ft gap was not wide enough after all!

It can be hard to manage a crowded entrance, a tight gap, and atmosphere. The mare was trained, but was 3 day fit, and ready to jump. It would have helped if the entrance to the ring was not allowed to be congested. It would help if stewards opened the rope far enough that horses are not squashed there too.

The other side is that with my new horse he is a cool dude, but does not like other horses kicking at him! I wish more people would take a leaf out of my book when I had the mare, and not stay in the collecting ring if it is not appropriate.

This sounds familiar - my old boy would warm up fine but would be so desperate to go in and jump that he couldn't bear to stand still at the ring entrance to wait to go in. Even at 14 I got used to telling everybody, very forcefully but politely, that I would have to keep him moving until the last possible moment so even if I wasn't there waiting I WAS going in when my number came up and the entrance would HAVE to be clear for everybody's safety. I often had to go into the ring backwards as he would be so excited he couldn't work out where to put his legs and would end up going up. I would talk to the steward when I put my number down and ask them to shout it extra loud when the one before me went in. My riding club were fab - everybody knew us and would scatter from the entrance about 3 riders before we were due to go in. Pony Club were even better and would have the steward to pull the rope outwards to keep all the others away from the entrance as I went in.

 

[ljohnsonsj]

What do you mean how far can organisers go? Do you not think it would have been appropriate for them to ask the competitor to leave the warm up/collecting ring?

I mean, yes she should of been asked to leave, but how many horses do mess about in warm ups and the owners take no responsibilty for their actions. This was a senior show and adults riding, it shouldn't be upto the show organisers or stewards to have to make obvious safety decisions for riders, they should be able to manage that themselves. I do agree when the horse kicked the girl it should of been asked to leave, as the horse and rider combination was an accident waiting to happen all day

 

[ljohnsonsj]

I see both sides. One of my eventers would be up tight in the collecting ring if it were too busy, so much so that sometimes I would warm up for SJ in the dressage area where there was space for order to reign, then simply walk through the SJ warmup if it was manic, and go straight in. If the SJ warmup was orderly she was fine.

One day she was warming up fine, and the ring itself was orderly, but there was a big group of people on horses at the entrance, and I had my place to go, but the steward kept putting people in in front of me, because I was not "lined up" in a crowded entrance. I warmed up for more than half an hour as she kept letting people in, despite my OH telling her that lining up in a crowd would not be sensible for this horse. She insisted, so we did, and when it was my time to go the horse had still contained herself, but was jogging on the spot and front end light as she was crowded in at the entrance.

As the other horse finished the steward dropped the rope and stepped about 4 ft forward for us to go through the narrow gap. I, sat aside the jogging tense mare, asked her to make more space as it was not wide enough. By this time the horse was cantering on the spot, but still the steward assured me there was enough space, and I KNOW she was busy, and flustered, but I was trapped in a crowd, and could not stand to argue, so I went for the 4 ft gap.

No one was injured, but the clip board in that lady's hand flew rather high. Seems the 4 ft gap was not wide enough after all!

It can be hard to manage a crowded entrance, a tight gap, and atmosphere. The mare was trained, but was 3 day fit, and ready to jump. It would have helped if the entrance to the ring was not allowed to be congested. It would help if stewards opened the rope far enough that horses are not squashed there too.

The other side is that with my new horse he is a cool dude, but does not like other horses kicking at him! I wish more people would take a leaf out of my book when I had the mare, and not stay in the collecting ring if it is not appropriate.

You took responsibilty for your horse though, and warned people and requested things that would make it safer, if everyone was like you It wouldn't be a problem. The person I mentioned in the OP was oblivious to everyone around her and was just expecting other people to get out the way of the horse she was winding up, which I just don't think is acceptable behaviour, especially in a busy qualifier with over 40 starters so the warm up and collecting ring was understandably busy

 

[muckypony]

This was a senior show and adults riding, it shouldn't be upto the show organisers or stewards to have to make obvious safety decisions for riders, they should be able to manage that themselves

Yes it should. Some adults are worse than kids! All of the competitors have paid the show organisers for the event, therefore they also need to take responsibility. If the adult is not bothered, who else should tell them? It shouldn't be up to the other competitors.

Yesterday I witnessed an awful accident that could potentially have been avoided had one of the people involved been asked sooner to be more polite in the warm up.

In general I think people now are far less courteous in warm ups than they should be. People walking on the track, walking two-abreast, not passing left-to-left etc. I was taught this from a very young age, do people not know this anymore!?

 

[ester]

It is absolutely up to the organisers and stewards to make safety decisions, it is a part of their job. I'd never presume a senior BSer to make responsible decisions!

 

[ljohnsonsj]

It is absolutely up to the organisers and stewards to make safety decisions, it is a part of their job. I'd never presume a senior BSer to make responsible decisions!

That doesn't go for all of us! Again, a select few making all of us look bad.

 

[Tiddlypom]

This was a senior show and adults riding, it shouldn't be upto the show organisers or stewards to have to make obvious safety decisions for riders, they should be able to manage that themselves.

Whilst the rider involved was behaving very poorly, IMHO the stewards should most definitely have stepped in earlier.

 

[ester]

You can swap BSer for adult, never a good idea to assume!

 

[Sukistokes2]

I took my old lad out to dressage this weekend for a trip, while we were in the warm up another competitor came past me from behind and as she did so her horse kicked out at my old boy. She said sorry right away and then kept her horse away from me. I saw it as one of those things and did not see any reason for her or her horse to leave. I might have felt differently had Ffin been kicked, however I am pretty sure the lady would have left anyhow, she was embarrassed enough about the kick out. I do think that people should take responsibility for their own horses, if mine was being an idiot I would remove him. However to be honest the worst behavior i see at shows is from the riders!

 

[misskk88]

I took my old lad out to dressage this weekend for a trip, while we were in the warm up another competitor came past me from behind and as she did so her horse kicked out at my old boy. She said sorry right away and then kept her horse away from me. I saw it as one of those things and did not see any reason for her or her horse to leave. I might have felt differently had Ffin been kicked, however I am pretty sure the lady would have left anyhow, she was embarrassed enough about the kick out. I do think that people should take responsibility for their own horses, if mine was being an idiot I would remove him. However to be honest the worst behavior i see at shows is from the riders!

By the sounds of it, the owner had a bit of courtesy and also common sense to then not cause another potential situation, by keeping away. Totally agree most bad behaviour is from/caused by the rider!

I really think people do have a serious lack of common sense and courtesy nowadays, and feel that it is a god given right to do as they please. Basic manners go out the window. I have seen green horses purposely wound up by other riders who were aware it was, and so they rode as closely as possible, coming past at speed, cutting them up etc. Unnecessary and complete ar**holes if you ask me!

Personally, I would hope that any stewards would be keeping a closer eye. Yes, accidents can happen at any time, but a horse that is persistently playing up, with the rider essentially goading it to misbehave more should have been asked to leave the arena, or even the showground- poor girl that got kicked!

 

[Pennythetank]

This sounds familiar - my old boy would warm up fine but would be so desperate to go in and jump that he couldn't bear to stand still at the ring entrance to wait to go in. Even at 14 I got used to telling everybody, very forcefully but politely, that I would have to keep him moving until the last possible moment so even if I wasn't there waiting I WAS going in when my number came up and the entrance would HAVE to be clear for everybody's safety. I often had to go into the ring backwards as he would be so excited he couldn't work out where to put his legs and would end up going up. I would talk to the steward when I put my number down and ask them to shout it extra loud when the one before me went in. My riding club were fab - everybody knew us and would scatter from the entrance about 3 riders before we were due to go in. Pony Club were even better and would have the steward to pull the rope outwards to keep all the others away from the entrance as I went in.

You literally could have been writing about my old pony. If I warmed up over jumps, she knew that she was going jumping and could not stand still. I often reversed up to the ring, turned a beautiful pirouette and galloped in!

 

[Annagain]

You literally could have been writing about my old pony. If I warmed up over jumps, she knew that she was going jumping and could not stand still. I often reversed up to the ring, turned a beautiful pirouette and galloped in!

Yup, I used to back up to about 3 strides away from the start, spin him round and let him go. As soon as he'd jumped every fence in the ring he'd stop but not before then! It's a good job he ALWAYS jumped clear as we often had courses where the jump off fences were also in there and we'd carry on to the jump off because he wouldn't have stopped if he hadn't jumped them!

 

[Barnacle]

I recognise some of these scenarios and I think maybe judgment of the rider being described is a little unfair. For all we know, her horse was normally beautifully behaved but hadn't been out in such a busy atmosphere and started to act up. Yes, she wound it up further - but maybe she just panicked and the person on the ground was giving bad advice. In that situation it doesn't necessarily occur to you to leave, I imagine. You might just hold on for dear life and try to regain control... Rather than guiding what I'm now picturing to be a bucking, rearing horse towards the exit, through a crowd of other ponies... I'm just saying maybe try to imagine actually being in that rider's boots. Are you sure you'd have acted responsibly? When her horse aimed a kick at someone, she definitely should have apologised. But, actually, how does the OP know she didn't? So, sure, the theoretical behaviour described sounds awful... But I'm not sure it's an accurate representation of what happened - and so I'm not sure we should all get riled up about "responsibility-taking these days" just yet.

 

[PolarSkye]

I have seen green horses purposely wound up by other riders who were aware it was, and so they rode as closely as possible, coming past at speed, cutting them up etc. Unnecessary and complete ar**holes if you ask me!

I have witnessed similar . . . and felt very sorry for all concerned. Collecting rings and warm-up arenas can be overwhelming for young/green horses (and riders) . . . yes, riders should try and observe ring etiquette, but it doesn't take much to be aware of those around you and give those on obviously green/nervous horses a bit of a break.

P

 

[MagicMelon]

What do you mean how far can organisers go? Do you not think it would have been appropriate for them to ask the competitor to leave the warm up/collecting ring?

Definately. Surely, for their own insurance they want to try and keep accidents to a minimum and this sounds dangerous. If my horse ever acted like that (young or not) then I'd be leaving pronto! If any of mine even lifted a leg to another horse I'd be horrified. It's usually BS that I've noticed horses allowed to mess about and the riders do nothing about it, I guess they have an assumption that showjumpers are meant to do that... bizarre if you ask me but really annoys me if I have my young horse there and I have to spend my time trying to keep out of several naughty horses ways when I should be concentrating on my own!

 

[YorksG]

If more organisors insisted on decent behaviour, those who do wouldn't get quite the number of rude responses they do! However a question for those who insist on certain conditions at the entrance, what happens if several competitors require the same clearance etc? It quickly becomes unworkable.
Even more irritating are those who clog up the collecting/warm up for classes they are not even entered for, A prime example was the two over made up young women on a pair of 16hh in the middle of a 13.2 worker class collecting ring!

 

[LittleRooketRider]

Y
In general I think people now are far less courteous in warm ups than they should be. People walking on the track, walking two-abreast, not passing left-to-left etc. I was taught this from a very young age, do people not know this anymore!?

Yes my instructor has drilled in to me pass left-to-left, walk out of the way etc. but the number of peopel who don't seem to know this or choose to ignore it drives me up the wall as I always find myself making every effort to get out the way/stick to what is correct and I end up getting a dirty look when they change their mind lst minute etc.

 

[Pennythetank]

Yup, I used to back up to about 3 strides away from the start, spin him round and let him go. As soon as he'd jumped every fence in the ring he'd stop but not before then! It's a good job he ALWAYS jumped clear as we often had courses where the jump off fences were also in there and we'd carry on to the jump off because he wouldn't have stopped if he hadn't jumped them!

At least yours stopped! While eventing (she always knew when there was 3 phases, and that x country was after sj the cheeky ******!) I would gallop out of the sj ring and jump off trying to keep a hold of her reins. Thank fully everyone knew our 'routine' and she always stopped when she lost her rider....