Not very forward going - help!

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TakeAChance

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As title; my rising 7 yr old ISH is not the most forward going and I end up doing far more work than he does when riding. What can I do to improve this or will he always be like it?

Some background info: I've had him almost a year, he had major napping/confidence issues when I first got him, but with patience and schooling we've overcome those and napping is no longer an issue. Generally hacking isn't an issue, although he's more forward when in company than on his own. Schooling is a nightmare and totally exhausting. If I take my leg off for a moment he dribbles to a halt. Jumping is fine, but flatwork leaves me dripping with sweat and aching from head to toe. I feel like he's just not interested and don't really know what to do to 'spice it up' for him! I desperately don't want to give up the schooling as we've come such a long way in the time I've had him and I have dreams of doing dressage with him (although I must admit, I'm starting to realise that probably isn't going to be his thing at all!)

At the moment he gets ridden 6 times a week; private lesson every weekend, riding club group session once a week plus hacking 3 times a week and schooling at home once a week. He loves hacking and riding club, even when it's flatwork, but as soon as he's schooled on his own he switches off. Doesn't bode well for dressage tests does it?!

I love him dearly and he's going nowhere, if dressage isn't his 'thing' then I'll change my 'thing' to suit him! Any ideas on how to get him more forward would be really, really appreciated though :D
 
Can't help as having the same issue with my ex racer, no wonder she only raced a few times! :rolleyes: she totally switches off being schooled so just bumping this up! :D
 
First off, can you give him a complete break from schooling where you are schooling now ??? Is there anywhere else you can go to do this, as it sounds like a form of nappiness has reared it's head. Even a field may be better to make him realise he won't just be expected to school in the same school, but elsewhere too?

Another thought is to have a short break from schooling, and then return to it only with an instructor in charge, someone to get ideas from, and to see what he's doing ?

If there are no pain related issues, the whip/spur route introduced very gently ??

And lastly diet - tho i really suspect this is a cunning plan to get out of having to work in a school - I think it's quite catching, vaccine yet to be developed ;) Just to add, my last cob suffered from this terrible affliction of laziness, until the VERY long spurs came out, a schooloing whip, and an instructor with a lunge whip. He kind of gave up after a few lessons like that .
 
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refuse to work harder than him- leg aids should not have to be given constantly! if he doesnt listen to you after the first time you give the aid make it significantly louder with the aid of a whip, spurs or even a proper pony club kick! this behaviour is just him taking the p*** and you shouldnt put up with it. if he realises he cant get away with being lazy you should find he starts responding properly to your leg aids, and reward him when he does, constant nagging will have turned him off from you, you just need to wake him up!
 
Thanks Shysmum, I think you could have hit the nail on the head and that it is a form of nappiness to get out of working. Until recently he's always bucked when the whip is used (even if it just touches him), now he stamps his back foot, but he does listen to it more. I always wear spurs when schooling alone as recommended by my instructor, although I'm just using the little roller ball gentle ones at the moment.

We've also been down the lunge whip route - my poor instructor has been following me around with it for weeks! He's great when he knows it's there, but as soon as she puts it down, we're back to Mr Lazy. My instructor has prescribed fun rides, cross country and general getting out and about to wake him up a bit more, all of which I'm up for, but am struggling to find people to go with.

I hadn't thought about schooling him somewhere else, that's definitely something I'll look into.

In terms of diet, he doesn't get a lot as our grass is so good and he's started to balloon a little! He just gets a handful of AlfaA High Fibre and a quarter scoop of horse and pony nuts. I wonder whether he needs something to give him a bit more energy, but he seems to have plenty of energy when he's in company!

As for the vaccine, maybe we can set up a charity to fund research into this awful affliction?! :D
 
overtherainbow said:
refuse to work harder than him- leg aids should not have to be given constantly! if he doesnt listen to you after the first time you give the aid make it significantly louder with the aid of a whip, spurs or even a proper pony club kick! this behaviour is just him taking the p*** and you shouldnt put up with it. if he realises he cant get away with being lazy you should find he starts responding properly to your leg aids, and reward him when he does, constant nagging will have turned him off from you, you just need to wake him up!
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I couldn't agree more overtherainbow, I do back up my aids with a sharp smack if he doesn't respond straight away and this works, but only for the few seconds after the aid is given. I suppose I just have to perservere and be very consistent in my approach. I think I'm just feeling extra drained tonight after a particularly exhausting schooling attempt!
 
overtherainbow said:
refuse to work harder than him- leg aids should not have to be given constantly! if he doesnt listen to you after the first time you give the aid make it significantly louder with the aid of a whip, spurs or even a proper pony club kick! this behaviour is just him taking the p*** and you shouldnt put up with it. if he realises he cant get away with being lazy you should find he starts responding properly to your leg aids, and reward him when he does, constant nagging will have turned him off from you, you just need to wake him up!
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This!!!!

I rode a cob who was used to being nagged with the legs, well i wasn't prepared to do that!! Within 2 sessions of riding him he was shooting off the slightest touch!
You do a slight squeeze, if nothing you do a slight squeeze again (benefit of the doubt) if nothing then, you do a sharp kick with a smack on the neck, if they slow down again you repeat this process!
Do it for walk, trot and canter, they soon get the message!

Funnily enough my husband did the same on a seasoned hunter he borrowed for a season and the owner couldn't beleive how alert they were when he handed them back! :D
 
Hmm, by the sounds of it I just have to try harder and make sure he knows who's boss! I'm inspired by the thought that I can make him snap out of it like you did with yours though Devonshire Dumpling :)
 
I was going to say take him hunting for a season, but you'd have to wait a bit. Fun rides would be good.

My husband's big gelding is like that, but only with those that let him! If fighting you becomes harder than actually working he gives in and starts to go beautifully! He reminds me of a typical riding school horse that knows exactly what level his rider is and how little he will have to do!
 
I have a similar issue. Is yours a big horse? I am wondering (hoping!) it is a big horse/maturity thing.
Mine seems to have stopped growing at 9,having reached 17.2h. It is a lot of horse and if they decide to set their body against you (which mine does) niether whip or spurs will help.... in fact they can make the problem worse!
I have found that using the schooling stick creatively can help. Try tickling the poll with it. Vocal commands and clicking a lively tempo can also help.
A fun ride or a trip hunting might make a difference,but I am inclined to think we have gotten ourselves sensible horses who are not going to put undue stress on developing joints and muscles.
On the plus side,I would rather have this massive power stuck in slow motion than flat out and un stoppable!
 
If you saw the state of my last cob, an ex trekker who refused to do absolutely ANYTHING when away from the trekking environment - full on rears , spins, trying to jump out of the school, then refusing to move AT ALL....

you would have a lot of hope right now. I couldn't afford anything else really, and was determined he wasn't going to win, so out came the three inch spurs, a stick with empty coke cans tied on it (no kidding), and hubs with the hose ready to squirt...and we got there. There were a lot of tears along the way, but after 5 years, when I finally had to sell him as we were emigrating, he was the most perfect boy, and I still miss him so much now. He taught me a lot about how bloody stubborn I can be ;) xx

I never did get him to jump tho - funny that, lol.
 
Honey08 - hunting is definitely on the cards as soon as it's back on :)

Abitodd - my boy isn't particularly big, only 16.1, although quite chunky.

Shysmum - it sounds like your cob was quite similar and you've really given me hope! Mine used to do the whole rearing and spinning thing as well as huge, dramatic sideways spooks as an avoidance tactic in the beginning. I've managed to get him over that and looking back I realise he's made great progress, just not in the forward direction! We'll get there. I'm very stubborn too so he's met his match, it's just painful (physically and emotionally!)
 
Do let me know how you get on, and pm me whenever you need to talk. It is very frustrating and emotional, but little by little the light will go on. If you make his life HARD when he's bad, but brilliant when he's good, he'll click on.

I always lol when parelli peeps go on about carrot sticks...I kid you not, a carrot dangling from a stick was one of the ways we taught him what legs aids actually meant, and it bloody well worked :D Try and be innovative and make it into a game, but a serious one.

edit - we went for lots of vocals too "Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, Yay................, go,go,go, whoppeeeeeeeeeee" in fact whatever you can make high energy, engaging, and sounds fun.
 
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What DD said - and you have to be really disciplined, you MUST keep your leg off between aids, you MUST make sure he really surges forward after a leg aid, (if you're not sure whether he did or not, he didn't), if he doesn't surge then you must immediately make a massive fuss (use stick, swish in air, tie plastic bags to it, get a wip *** - something will make him go) and immediately stop making a fuss when he goes forward. Repeat ad nauseam, or until said pony gets "nice active test" on his dressage sheets (my most recent lazy one just did, hooray :-) )

I do find a lot of horses like this get desensitised to whip and spurs, so some lateral thinking does help, eg shysmums coke cans, and usually the visual stimulus is enough, you don't even need to touch the horse.

Also maybe try schooling in a field or something, or put some jumps in the school to add interest. What does "schooling" mean to you? He is expected to be obedient, but you are expected to make it at least a bit fun for him, iykwim. :-)
 
I have got a very lazy TB. I find the squeeze, nudge, pony club kick then tickle with the schooling stick works with him. He used to buck when I used the stick on him so my trainer got me to run the schooling stick lightly against his quarters at the start of a schooling session to desensitive him to it.

I found after a few weeks of this I could use the schooling stick without worrying about getting bucked off.
 
Just wanted to emphasise you are not alone ;) I've found I've come to rely too much on my heels and stick, even though they have little effect, so am trying to be more creative .... lately I've been coinciding a nudge with the legs with flapping the loop of my reins side to side or forwards towards the poll, or swishing the stick over his ears or alongside his face, often accompanied by a vocal 'whish whish' sound - seems to provoke a forward reaction which I then praise and try to keep going ... sometimes easier than others :rolleyes:
 
I'm going through the same process with Dylan, a friend is schooling for me at the minute to get over some issues including bucking,napping leaning....I could go on. There has been a vast improvement in just two weeks and I'm finding him much more willing.

As far as the aids go she let's the pace almost fizzle then give him a sharp leg aid, the aids are more exaggerated at the minute but getting more subtle each session.

Now he knows I'm not going to do all the work for him it's amazing the impulsive he has without me sweating buckets trying to get him going!
 
My Clydie x is like this, it's when he gets bored. Best thing to do with him is take him on a long hack (I mean 2hrs+) and give him a good gallop. Then continue just hacking for a week. As soon as he gets sour I try to avoid the school for a bit and works a treat. No point battling him round the school, because if he doesn't want to he simply won't.

If we're going to a show I always give him the day before off to perk him up :)
 
Thanks for all your helpful comments and suggestions. I'm feeling so much more positive just knowing that I'm not alone and hearing how other people have overcome the same problem. Maybe he won't be a lazy pony for ever and we'll get to do that dressage test after all :)
 
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