Not worthy....

Caol Ila

Caol Ila

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I would have put this in the 'is riding odd' thread, but I used one too many swear words and got banned from aforesaid thread. Whoops.

Oh well. So, I've seen a sales post for a 3 yr old TB filly - one of these things that pops up unasked for on my Facebook newsfeed...it's not like I'm looking (I'm really, really not) - who's been in race training but didn't make it, so being sold as a sports horse. Ad specifies that they will not consider a 'happy hacking home.' Only a 'serious' competition home, be that showing or dressage or eventing or whatever. Why? It's implied that the filly has too much quality to be a mere happy hacker, but who knows. Maybe she's too hot. But even if you take the seller at face value (and they have a good reputation, so lets do that, for the sake of argument), why should it matter? If an owner comes along who has the skills to produce the horse and develop her as a useful citizen of the equine-human collective, who will treat her well, who will love her, then why should it matter? No horse has to compete. Every horse deserves an owner who will train it with kindness and empathy.

But that's the wrong question. The right question is why are 'happy hackers' seen as somehow not as worthy as competition riders?* We see those threads here all the time...."My horse is wasted because he'd be an excellent eventer, but all he does is sit in field/hack/etc." I think this idea of 'wasting' a horse is bonkers. If your horse *could* do GP dressage, but it's happy and content carting you about some trails, then it's not a waste, is it? I bet your horse doesn't complain to his fieldmates, "I wanted to compete in the Olympics, but my idiot of an owner can't even get through a Novice test..."

*I know a lot of 'competition' bred horses are a lot to handle for your average punter, but that's a different conversation....
 
I think there are people who are of the opinion that a stabled horse - and the lifestyle that goes with that - is better than the life of a happy hacker.

ETA: It's almost a snob-value thing. Perhaps. Or maybe I'm being harsh. Yes, I think it's more to do with the sort of lifestyle that the person themselves would like, as a person.

E(again!)TA: So it's sort nonsensical. They're the sort of person who, after putting on a jumper, thinks their horse needs a rug.
 
Well in that case all of my horses have been wasted…………..

I’ve jumped, evented, dressaged, WEQ, hunted, hacked, shown all my life. I have the benefit of having stunningly talented horses, trained beautifully by my hubby who is a professional trainer.

On a good day, with everything going right I am at best an average rider. I compete unaffiliated, riding club only and have a blast.

Our horses live long lives and most of my income goes on medical bills, supplements, warm (and pretty) rugs for the retired ones. When the time comes they are buried on our land and memorial trees planted.

What a waste right……………..?
 
I think it's just a reflection of one of the fundamental things where civilised society gets it so wrong - most allow the influence of others to train them to feel that positive feelings come as a result of success or achievements. Even though that doesn't actually happen, or if it does it's only a temporary 'hit' of feelings.

My opinion is that humans are, on the whole, so out of touch with what is actually important in life and have never experienced inner contentment, so most find it so hard to feel positive and truly happy for any length of time and have developed a society which leads people to focus on the wrong sorts of things.

Thank goodness for people like us who are more enlightened!
 
Ah yes, human ego

So much better to say "Here's our old filly winning the ROR champs" on the Insta page instead of celebrating her dealing with traffic / cows / roadworks / gates etc. It's hardly like happy hacking is easy but it's a lot less Insta worthy 😉

The horse couldn't care less about ribbons.
 
Actually my happy hacker does not just sit in the field and slop about the lanes. He also has regular training sessions - which incidentally are tailored to him by a trainer who knows him not some sports official's view of what he should be doing or what tack he should be wearing.
And the old 'live like kings' thing- well if that includes top quality grub, tack that fits, regular physio, decent stabling and turnout with his pal, he gets all that too.

Don't think he actually cares about being on Instagram he'd rather try blagging an apple from some neighbour he meets on his hacks out.
 
I have seen this attitude a bit with children’s ponies. Someone was selling a pony that had been her daughter’s 1st and taken her off the lead rein but she said she only wanted a 2nd pony home as the pony deserved to be out winning rosettes.

I found it so strange that any person would think a horse cares about that stuff.

I’ve never had any interest in competing it seems so stressful to me and the people I know who do compete seem to get more stress and anxiety out of it than enjoyment. I know that’s a generalisation and some people do genuinely thrive off that sort of thing but I do think a lot do it because the feel obligated. One of the main reason I gave up riding as a 12 year old was because my mum wanted me to go to shows and do competitions but I hated the idea and she thought it was a waste to have a pony and not compete. I got sick of the nagging and just quit. I do wonder how many kids competing actually love it versus how many are just pleasing their parents.
 
I've seen similar adds, and completely agree with the OP.

But I have wondered if this sort of wording, particularly on young ex-racers, is an attempt to weed out some of the incompetents looking for a cheap horse and end up selling it a few years later as they can't handle them and/or have messed them up entierly.

I know competing doesn't equal competence, but I there is perhaps the perception of a greater chance they are going to seek outside help/lessons to progress.

I mean wording the add as not a novice ride would be better, but...
 
I think it’s a bit of an odd one. I don’t think there’s a better feeling than hacking out a horse who is so keen to go forward and interested to be out and about.

I do think you see similar in some horses going XC (and probably hunting too but that’s not something I know much about) but I can’t say I’ve ever seen that keenness when it comes to dressage or schooling.
That’s not to say they hate doing it and we shouldn’t ask them to do a bit of it but surely doing things your horse enjoys doing should trump what humans ‘think’ they should do.

Horses have no idea what red ribbons or cash prizes are. I’ll never understand pushing a horse to do something so I have bragging rights. I just want to have fun as a partnership wethers that’s entering a RC comp or going a hack.
 
I saw that advert, loved the horse and thought she looked cracking. Exactly what I would want in a TB sport horse. Thought their phone would ring off the hook and was a bit sad I had sworn off getting more horses.

As for the comment on happy hacking. I can see both points of view. Horses don't have ambition so it makes no difference to them what they do. They just want to be comfortable in their own skin. At the same time we all know 'happy hackers' who don't ride in balance, lack confidence on sharper horses, only ride once a week with horses who don't look brilliant whether that's too fat or lacking muscle than ones who do. I suspect the perception is there is more of this type of rider than not.
 
YourValentine said:
I've seen similar adds, and completely agree with the OP.

But I have wondered if this sort of wording, particularly on young ex-racers, is an attempt to weed out some of the incompetents looking for a cheap horse and end up selling it a few years later as they can't handle them and/or have messed them up entierly.

I know competing doesn't equal competence, but I there is perhaps the perception of a greater chance they are going to seek outside help/lessons to progress.

I mean wording the add as not a novice ride would be better, but...
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I think, from a decent owner, this is possibly right - that a competition home is more likely to seek help, advice, training etc. There is a huge amount of snobbery in equestrianism and horses really are often used for status too though but I suspect that a nice young thoroughbred might find life better, potentially, with someone who is prepared to invest in training and support than someone who may not have the resources or inclination for competing and who may find dealing with a horse like that as a hack, too challenging. Then...another sale, possible neglect etc.
 
Think I saw this advert to - large dark bay filly from a reasonably well known seller? Thought the same thing when I read it.
 
I suppose in the case of this horse, if the seller implies that the horse is ‘too good’ for hacking and are selling as a potential competition horse then they can justify asking a much higher price.

This point has always mystified me as well. Horses don’t know what could have been if they’d had a different life. It’s a case of applying human logic to an animal and not seeing that the two are not alike, exactly the same as someone else above mentioned - the owner feeling cold and putting a rug on the horse.
 
I get it. I had one horse in particular who was advertised as a competition horse. She was very talented but also very tricky. She was actually a very nice hack, but I wasn't sure people would put up with her quirks to go hacking, whereas she was a remarkable jumper so quirks were paid back in spades for the feeling that whatever the fence, whatever the stride, you were as good as over.

I certainly wanted to know that someone was of a professional type standard before I'd even let them get on to try her. What better way to weed out the unbalanced/unconfident that to know they'd competed at a professional standard? I knew that if she did whatever, they'd know how to deal with it and wouldn't sit there all slack while they decided what to do.

I'm also pretty much now a happy hacker. Still do unaffiliated stuff, but no longer test my own boundaries. I know that I am not the poised, ready for anything rider that I once was. When a horse has a big engine and plenty of go, the rider has to be ready in a different level of current competence and fitness, IMO.

I have sold horses before where riders have said how confident, competent and experienced they were and, when they have come, they have not known how to sit a spook or whatever, even if the horse was just playing. I've had horses who bucked and it was literally for fun - joy de vivre. First canter of the day would be to keep them moving forward and circular in energy as they felt their bodies and relished how well they felt. Also when they finished a round of jumps and knew they had done well. No, I don't think it was pain at all, just congratulating themselves and relishing the alive feeling of being fit, athletic and doing a job. They had been controlled for the round and let loose after.

I have happy hacker type horses now. I now give my horses a week off (or more) and climb back aboard to go out hacking, no bother. However, I've also had horses with who it would not have been safe to do so. In fact, today, I've been on holiday and H has been off 2 weeks, Rigs more than 3, and we are off hacking. I expect to saddle up and have a lovely, relaxed time. Horses for courses.

It is entirely possible that these competition horses would calm down if less fit, and ridden slacker, but that is not the state they are in now, so I can understand sellers wanting a poised and effective rider only to come and have a try!

ETA - one horse in particular I had was very much a professional's only horse to handle, let alone ride. He was sharp and tested his boundaries. He was so even after protracted retirement in a field for 3 years. Over the time with me though, he relaxed off that feel. He was less competitive with me than he would have been with a pro but he hacked a lot, wore the silly hat at Christmas, did spook busting etc etc and, when sold for £1 as he had a small niggle (he was winning despite this but I knew he wouldn't stand up to BE Novice for long and that is what I wanted to do) he went to a very much happy hacker home and was cherished and loved.

They had him over 10 years, until he was 25, where he did some lower BD, loads of hacking, taught the neighbour's kids etc etc. But, he'd already transformed to a more relaxed type.

I do think that to jump big fences or do higher dressage, they have to have an engine that is always engaged. That means power is on stream all of the time. That means redirecting it rather than just tugging on the reins. They have to react to the smallest change in the rider, power on stream and snapped to at the drop of a leaf. That means a rider switched on to that. Their brains are always switched on and so need the rider be.

Maybe the TB in question would make a wonderful happy hacker, but would not be that right now. Maybe it would take someone used to having power and attention on stream all of the time to help her make that transformation.

I doubt it is about their insta page. I think it is more about playing the odds to get someone who would understand what is happening when the horse is on high attention and suddenly stops when they hear a hedgehog in the verge. To not wonder what to do, but who can just sit with, give direction. To understand what action to take if suddenly meeting pigs, or roadworks or whatever. Who does that instinctively and doesn't have to ponder. That is probably what the TB mare needs right now.

I think some riders who came to see my horses were indeed suffering ego. But that was the other way, that they thought they could ride the fine horse but did not know what they didn't know. Unconscious incompetence. Whereas, I once was competent and am now not so much, through being unfit and out of practice. I am full conscious of my current (and due to my age probably permanent) incompetence.
 
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It's not a new thing, competition home only has been around from the days of printed ads in horse and hound.

It's a human thing to think if a horse or person has talent, it's a shame to waste it. It's the same motive that would worry about an academically gifted child who didn't stay in at school and take exams and took a job seen as menial.

The only other thing is some horses are better worked regularly and a competition home might be more likely to do that though not always.
 
I personally don’t think I get it, if a happy hacking and odd fun ride type human turns up who has the capacity to work with the horse, surely that would be better for the horse in the long run? Overall, that could lead to a more adaptable and healthy horse that can succeed in any career, plus it’s happy? Isn’t that better than any rosette?

A ‘proper’ hacking rider often has to be able to deal with a spook and be pretty adaptable with their plans if things go awry, qualities which are important with youngsters. But then again, the difficulty lies in how is one supposed to tell that the rider can do all of that and doesn’t just hop on their super-safe cob and hope for the best?

I was recently taking lessons and was frequently told by instructors that I should compete and do sj because I had potential or something along those lines. However, I don’t really see the point in rosettes, I just like popping a jump for fun and ambling on country lanes; going to the yard to see a happy horse having a doze. I find a lot of horses tend to like that sort of lifestyle, but not always.

I think that horses in any line of work should be taught to plod around country lanes on the buckle, in case something goes wrong and they can’t compete anymore, plus it’s sometimes nice to have a lil break. I obviously don’t know the ins and outs of why she’s being sold as competition-only but I suspect a combination of reasons mentioned on the thread.
 
LEC said:
As for the comment on happy hacking. I can see both points of view. Horses don't have ambition so it makes no difference to them what they do. They just want to be comfortable in their own skin. At the same time we all know 'happy hackers' who don't ride in balance, lack confidence on sharper horses, only ride once a week with horses who don't look brilliant whether that's too fat or lacking muscle than ones who do. I suspect the perception is there is more of this type of rider than not.
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I dont know any happy hackers that would fit that description.

All the ones I know, absolutely dote on their horses, spend huge amounts on tack checks, physio etc, have lessons or attend clinics,and work incredibly hard to train their horses to be comfortable with anything they might meet out on a hack, and on themselves to make sure they aren't a burden to their horse.
 
When I approached Bo's breeder about buying him, I was a bit apprehensive that they might have preferred him to go to a competitive home, particularly as they'd bred so many successful ponies over the years, but they assured me that they just wanted him to go to a family home where he'd be loved and enjoyed.

My idea was always that I'd find what he enjoyed and do that rather than try and mold him in to something he isn't. Hes done well in the show ring but finds it boring so we dont do that any more.

We've tried a few different things, and the only thing that gets his ears pricked is heading out the gate for a hack. Exploring the countryside is his favourite thing, which is lucky as its my favourite thing too! 😀
 
YourValentine said:
I've seen similar adds, and completely agree with the OP.

But I have wondered if this sort of wording, particularly on young ex-racers, is an attempt to weed out some of the incompetents looking for a cheap horse and end up selling it a few years later as they can't handle them and/or have messed them up entierly.

I know competing doesn't equal competence, but I there is perhaps the perception of a greater chance they are going to seek outside help/lessons to progress.

I mean wording the add as not a novice ride would be better, but...
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My thought was similar that and perhaps it should be looked at more positively in that light. I knew a lovely ex racehorse for sale who went on to do very well eventing but he’d not have been the right horse for me.


They may have used the phrase happy hacker in way which upsets or annoys competent caring non competing riders but not with bad intent.
 
I think sometimes it is ego, but the cynic in me also thinks it might be a nice way of saying 'impossible/dangerous to hack out'.
I've come across horses that were downright dangerous out hacking - one was not owned by a novice and professional help was enlisted, but he still turned himself inside out with alarming frequency out hacking. He was fine in the school and at competitions, just no good as a hacker, with or without another horse for company.
 
SEL said:
Ah yes, human ego

So much better to say "Here's our old filly winning the ROR champs" on the Insta page instead of celebrating her dealing with traffic / cows / roadworks / gates etc. It's hardly like happy hacking is easy but it's a lot less Insta worthy 😉
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You've summed it up perfectly!
I see it all the time in the Fell pony world of a certain type of owner chasing rosettes, qualifiers and forcing on young ponies into ridden showing careers at barely 4 year old after being moderately successful inhand as a 1/2/3 yo. Happy hacking is frowned upon and every aspect of what they consider to be a successful owner is overly shared on social media, any pony that has been sold on must go to a pro home and even the new owners hard work and wins are considered theirs. It's vulgar and crass.
 
Sanversera said:
i think that the sellers think that a happy hacker person wont have the experience to handle a ottracehorse and a professional with lots of bottle will be more suitable for handling and training the filly.
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I don't think soin this case. The seller has a variety of ex racehorses on their page and some are recommended for hacking. I think it's more about what they think is best for that particular horse.
 
I think if you look at trainers who post on Facebook about their rehomed horses most of them have lots of pictures of horses doing different things and not just all winning championships. They will be happy that the horse has a nice new home. Perhaps they get sent more pictures of horses that are competing as the new owner thinks they would like to see that.
 
Caol Ila said:
I would have put this in the 'is riding odd' thread, but I used one too many swear words and got banned from aforesaid thread. Whoops.

Oh well. So, I've seen a sales post for a 3 yr old TB filly - one of these things that pops up unasked for on my Facebook newsfeed...it's not like I'm looking (I'm really, really not) - who's been in race training but didn't make it, so being sold as a sports horse. Ad specifies that they will not consider a 'happy hacking home.' Only a 'serious' competition home, be that showing or dressage or eventing or whatever. Why? It's implied that the filly has too much quality to be a mere happy hacker, but who knows. Maybe she's too hot. But even if you take the seller at face value (and they have a good reputation, so lets do that, for the sake of argument), why should it matter? If an owner comes along who has the skills to produce the horse and develop her as a useful citizen of the equine-human collective, who will treat her well, who will love her, then why should it matter? No horse has to compete. Every horse deserves an owner who will train it with kindness and empathy.

But that's the wrong question. The right question is why are 'happy hackers' seen as somehow not as worthy as competition riders?* We see those threads here all the time...."My horse is wasted because he'd be an excellent eventer, but all he does is sit in field/hack/etc." I think this idea of 'wasting' a horse is bonkers. If your horse *could* do GP dressage, but it's happy and content carting you about some trails, then it's not a waste, is it? I bet your horse doesn't complain to his fieldmates, "I wanted to compete in the Olympics, but my idiot of an owner can't even get through a Novice test..."

*I know a lot of 'competition' bred horses are a lot to handle for your average punter, but that's a different conversation....
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Not seen the ad, don’t know the vendor, but if a seller specifically states not suitable for ‘happy hacking’ (as opposed to serious endurance, for example), just be relieved there should be one less unsuitable horse prancing giddily and possibly uncontrollably on today’s roads / bridleways.
I wouldn’t read that as a critique of such riders, rather vendor’s intention to successfully sell the horse they know, and limit any comeback.
If it’s never going to be ridden out (because unsuitable) then it probably is going to be school work and training towards some kind of competition - or possibly breeding? Certainly wouldn’t want any decent horse to face a future purely of going round and round in a riding manège, because the new owner was incapable or unwilling to do anything else - that would be awful, and far too many horses already exist like that.
 
I think on livery there's very often snobbery between the owners who compete and those who 'just' hack. As the mature owner of a small coloured cob I was definitely near the bottom of the yard's pecking order. I was once told by one of the dressage divas that 'you two look so cute together' - to which, for the sake of yard harmony, I didn't reply 'oh **** off'. It used to make me smile that very often the competition gang never hacked their super schooled horses out on their own but would put a plea on the group chat for someone to go out with. I never volunteered as I knew they wouldn't be seen dead with me.
 
1. It's three. Who knows how it will be when it actually matures.

2. The language is very, very ambiguous. As are all horse ads. Do they mean it in the way that Red-1 and Exasperated implied, that they think the horse is too sharp to be a safe hacking horse? Or do they mean that they think the horse has a lot of talent as a dressage horse or eventer and they want to see that talent go to good use (from their point of view)? They think she is 'too good' for 'just hacking,' regardless of whether she'd be alright at it or not. That kind of snobbery is real.

And there are many competition riders who are also useless. I watched the working hunter class at Blair Horse Trials a few years ago 'cause a friend was competing, and I was shocked by the standard of many of those riders, over 90-100 fences.
 
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I sense snobbery even on this thread. Some of the bravest, most competent riders I know are the hunting crowd. Mainly aren't interested in competing but utterly capable of training a 3yo to hack - over everything!

**wanders off to happy hack a cob having just done low level RC stuff with the other one who is far, far hotter than the warmbloods of my 30s** 🙄
 
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