novice rug question

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Lplates

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Hi, old cushings pony about to be clipped for skin health reasons. At the moment he is v hairy and in a medium weight turnout, which keeps his temperature just right. (Shires Tempest with cross surcingles).
But if he is clipped, I think he is going to need something warmer for the next month or so - should I buy him a heavyweight turnout, or should I layer a rug underneath his m/w turnout? If so, what kind of rug am I looking for? He is out 24/7 with good field shelter.
Thank you so much for any advice, I haven't used rugs before this winter.
 
If this is a pony you've owned for more than one winter and this is the first time he's been rugged and the first time he's had skin problems then I'd consider either removing the rug entirely and not clipping or changing the rug for a waterproof sheet only. If he's too hot he will have skin problems.

If the above is not the case then as the temperature is now on the rise I'd not increase the number of rugs, just make sure he has a little more forage than before.
 
For some reason he is going bald in great clumps, so we are clipping him to alleviate itchiness and see what's what. I have read about occasional cases of cushings ponies going bald in this way, but he also has sore patches, I don't know whether from rubbing and biting himself, or whether this is part of the condition :(
This is the first winter we have had him, he was rather neglected before and they didn't even realise he has very obvious cushings, so he is on meds for the first winter too. We are his forever home, but for six months he has been a fantastic first pony for my 7 year old. Hoping he might get back to health and be rideable again, but if not he will be a companion pony. Poor boy.
 
I would be wondering if he is a little hot and that's contributing to the condition

Speaking as someone with a pony with skin problems I would be tempted to make sure the rug is cleaned on the inside with something gentle then use that same rug, keeping my pony just ever so slightly on the cool side definitely helps with his skin

Otherwise layer with a cotton sheet or very thin stable rug and keep that very clean
 
Hi Lplates!

My horse also has Cushing's - he's TBxWB and 24. He is in at night. This year is the first year he's had rain scald (which btw is also known as rug rot!) - I think it is as a result of him getting a lot of midge bites across one hind quarter during the summer because that is exactly where the rain scald has taken hold. I clipped him out at the start of the winter which has allowed the area to be kept clean and ointment applied where necessary (my vet recommended washing with very dilute Hibiscrub which we rinsed off, to start with then applying Flamazine) - and it's looking much better now. I've also found that Aloe Vera gel really helped.

In conjunction with this - and on the vet's advice - I've also cut right back on his rugging this year. Normally he would have had his 450g combo turnout on bynow, but since cutting back on the rugs, he's just got his no-fill/zero Premier Equine turnout with one of their 100g liners and another 100g under rug when it' cold. This way, I can regularly wash the rug liners to keep them really clean. His skin has got so much better since cutting back on the rugs - in hindsight I think his rugs have allowed him to get too hot at times which has aggravated his skin problems - which I understand from my vet that Cushings horses are more susceptible to.

I would recommend you have a chat with your vet about your pony and his skin problems. For my horse, it was certainly the best thing to clip him out because we could then get a really good look at the affected area - but there are risks that if it's infected you could spread the infection to other areas of his body during the clipping. Also ref the rugging it sounds like he's got a thick rug on already so wouldn't add further rugs - as long as he's not dropping off his condition - does he have a balanced diet with plenty of hay in the field?
 
HI Lplates...have no direct experience of a horse with cushings but can give advice from a nutritional perspective in respect of horses keeping themselves warm from within. Apologies if you already know this, but access to hay 24/7 is a key factor in a horse maintaining its temperature, even more so in the colder weather. We have a tendency to 'mother' our horses and ponies as we would do a child...often over rugging because we ourselves are beginning to feel the cold. I have 2 welshies who are out all day but in overnight and both have lightweight turnouts and lightweight stable rugs, but crucially they have access to hay 24/7 so keep warm and toasty by eating constantly as nature intended.

In your case I'd be tempted to keep with the rugs you're using now (as others have said, make sure they're clean and if necessary use a sheet to aid with minimising any irritation for your boy), and make sure that he's got lots of hay to eat. A really good way to check his temperature if you're worried is to feel the tips of his ears or his belly behind the girth...that way you're not pushing your hand in under his rugs which in itself could cause discomfort.

Good luck, keep us posted.
 
Not had a horse with cushings, but a few years ago my horse had some mystery skin condition, similar to rain scald, but the vet didnt think it was rain scald. I tried "everything", but in the end, the only thing that helped in clearing it up was to fully clip the horse out (she was an unworked youngster), but it enabled us to see exactly what was going on, and allowed the skin to "breath".

The vet advised iodine spray for the scabby bits on her, and minus all the hair, it could be sprayed directly where it was needed. With hair on, it wasn't doing much good.
 
Following the other answers I'd get the rug off now before you think about clipping and keep checking him to see how his temperature is. When did he start going bald? Some of mine have been starting to moult for weeks now.
 
I would use a thin stable rug underneath his current rug and keep it clean (wash weekly). If he is living out 24/7 in the same rug then it will be very dirty next to his skin and contribute to his condition.
 
It might be worth checking for lice, if his immune system is compromised by the cushings he will be vulnerable to them, it was one thing my vet always says to watch for in long coated cushings ponies.
 
touchstone said:
It might be worth checking for lice, if his immune system is compromised by the cushings he will be vulnerable to them, it was one thing my vet always says to watch for in long coated cushings ponies.
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This. My pony has started to scratch and quickly rubbed a number of spots bald. A quick rummage through the coat and found a few lice. Not infested completely, but enough. Otherwise I agree with everyone else that your pony is too warm. Whip the rug off for a week and see how it goes.
 
jemima*askin said:
If this is a pony you've owned for more than one winter and this is the first time he's been rugged and the first time he's had skin problems then I'd consider either removing the rug entirely and not clipping or changing the rug for a waterproof sheet only. If he's too hot he will have skin problems.

If the above is not the case then as the temperature is now on the rise I'd not increase the number of rugs, just make sure he has a little more forage than before.
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Please dont use a waterproof sheet in the winter. It flattens their coat and means they will be colder as the hair cant stand up and do its job of insulating. Better off naked than using a waterproof sheet. Premier Equine do a good layering system for rugs.
 
JoJo_ said:
Please dont use a waterproof sheet in the winter. It flattens their coat and means they will be colder as the hair cant stand up and do its job of insulating. Better off naked than using a waterproof sheet. Premier Equine do a good layering system for rugs.
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Any rug will flatten the hair, waterproof or not. You need waterproof if you rug in winter otherwise you would have one very wet, cold miserable pony!

Losing coat in patches is a Cushings thing as the Pituitary gland no longer functions properly.

Clipping out for comfort is ideal, then adding thin layers of rugs means you can keep temperature even.

A check for lice at this time of year is something all UK horse owners need to do, they love late winter.

Try washing the whole pony using Nizoral shampoo, from the chemists. If there is any 'Rain Scald/Rot' then the Nizoral will sort it.

To check temperature you check the base of the ears, not the tips. The tips will generally feel cool in a healthy warm horse. If the base is cold, the rest of the horse is too.
 
This is brilliant, thank you all so much for the advice!
Just a little unsure about whether to take his rug off (large bare patches now) and not clip him, or whether to clip him and then rug him with thin layers… conflicting advice here, all good I am sure, but unsure which to follow!
We did find some evidence of lice after he started losing hair, not sure if this was what was causing it, but washed him thoroughly a fortnight ago with Vosene kids tea tree shampoo…? He has always been a bit scurfy though, with or without lice, which I think is the cushings.
Borrowed a turnout rug off a friend and have washed his own m/w one, which will go back on tomorrow. He is due to be clipped tomorrow (Fri), so any further advice v gratefully accepted if you think he shouldn't be clipped, I have 24 hrs to decide!
What sort of rug should go on underneath his m/w turnout if he is clipped? I have a stable sheet, or a fleece/jersey cooler in the tack room.
Thank you sooo much.
 
PS Havannah, he does have access to hay and have also tried haulage, he isn't keen on either, weirdly. Had his teeth done last Nov, and he is pretty old, so it might be that, but he just doesn't eat his hay. Enough grass in his field at the moment though I think and he has Fibre Beet twice a day now.
 
Lplates said:
This is brilliant, thank you all so much for the advice!
Just a little unsure about whether to take his rug off (large bare patches now) and not clip him, or whether to clip him and then rug him with thin layers… conflicting advice here, all good I am sure, but unsure which to follow!
We did find some evidence of lice after he started losing hair, not sure if this was what was causing it, but washed him thoroughly a fortnight ago with Vosene kids tea tree shampoo…? He has always been a bit scurfy though, with or without lice, which I think is the cushings.
Borrowed a turnout rug off a friend and have washed his own m/w one, which will go back on tomorrow. He is due to be clipped tomorrow (Fri), so any further advice v gratefully accepted if you think he shouldn't be clipped, I have 24 hrs to decide!
What sort of rug should go on underneath his m/w turnout if he is clipped? I have a stable sheet, or a fleece/jersey cooler in the tack room.
Thank you sooo much.
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I would also treat with Nizoral before making a decision. I wouldn't be rushed into the decision to clip. Surely someone would be available to clip in a week or so time if you still feel this is the best route forward?

As for under rug I definitely wouldn't use a fleece/jersey cooler as they have a tendency to stretch quite a bit.
 
Great, I think I will delay clipping for a week, try the Nizoral and use a clean sheet under his m/w turnout, changing it every few days and see how it goes. Looking at the pictures online Northern Hare, it looks very like rain scald - I just didn't believe it could be that because he has been rugged during all the bad rain recently - but now I know it is called rug rot too, that makes more sense!
Thank you very much.
 
Tea-tree shampoo will not get rid of lice. Either ask the vet for something to treat the lice or get some Cooper's Fly Repellent Plus, which I have found works well as a lice treatment - you will need to repeat after about 10 days. The rugs will warm up the lice and make them more active, so are probably best removed.

ETA, horses get infections under their rugs when they are too hot and sweaty.
 
When my cushings pony started to loose clumps of hair and develop sore patches it was her liver, if you see him rubbing it might be worth popping him on a milk thistle supplement - the herb is better than the liquid - the liver is a regenerative organ, my vet recommended this and it worked with no recurrence till we lost her (unconnected issue) 3 years later
 
Nizoral is for fungal infections, but rain scald is bacterial? Is it still worth doing?
And when washing with Nizoral are there any tips? I have just read a thread where someone said to lather up the Nizoral then leave on pony for 10 mins and scrape off. Surely I should wash off though to get rid of all chemicals?
thanks heaps
 
My horse with cushings is much better if not rugged too much as he easily overheats, this leads to him getting sweaty which makes him itchy, which results in sores and bald patches when he scratches himself. I've given him a bib clip and use a lightweight rug. He's not very hairy but he is warm enough. He's quite good at telling me if he doesn't want a rug on as he'll try to bite the front as put it on, so if it goes a bit warmer I'll leave the rug off. However, he does hold his condition quite well in the winter and gets fed a good veteran feed as well as ad lib haylage when he's in at night. I feel the biggest issue with cushings horses is making them too hot.
 
I think I'd be inclined to take advice from your vet. If your vet is advising you to clip then i'd do that though I definately would not do a full clip.

While it might be better not to rug next year, I'm not sure I'd suddenly remove rugs from a cushingoid pony in Winter as they generally struggle to regulate their temperature. If I did that to my cushingoid pony she'd be shivering.

If you do clip, I'd start with a thin fleece under the usual turnout rug and see how you get on. You might need something warmer but best to be guided by your pony.
 
Lplates said:
Hi Spotsrock, how much milk thistle were you giving him? thank you
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I just followed the instructions on the box! I think it was a winergy supplement - worked a treat tho and being natural you could use it without diagnosis, also made a difference within a week and once the hair started to grow back I stopped feeding it with no return of the problem, it's quite cheap too.

Personally I'd wash with the de louse stuff, put a thinner rug on if u have one and stick some milk thistle in his feed, ok you won't know which thing fixed it but if he's fixed, does it matter?
Good luck
 
Lplates said:
Nizoral is for fungal infections, but rain scald is bacterial? Is it still worth doing?
And when washing with Nizoral are there any tips? I have just read a thread where someone said to lather up the Nizoral then leave on pony for 10 mins and scrape off. Surely I should wash off though to get rid of all chemicals?
thanks heaps
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Huge debates going on worldwide over the initial cause of bith rain scald and mudfever.

I have been using and recommending Nizerol now for a number of years. The result of using Nizerol for either Mud Fever or Rain Scald is amazing. The whole problem cleared up in days. Nizerol though primarily for fungal infection does also have some antibacterial properties.

I have used both wash off and leave to dry depending on the amount of the affected area. To date I've had no horse have an adverse reaction to either method.

I have Clydesdales and Clydesdale crosses - a lot of white here! Every now and then one will have a clump of early Mudfever - hairs standing on end clumped together with lymph. I spray a Nizoral mix onto the area (Nizoral & water in a pump spray bottle), rub it in and leave it. Next day clumps have broken down.

I have also used it on numerous racehorses that come in from spelling with MudFever and often Rain Scald too. It honestly works so well and it saves all those agonising sessions of picking off scabs.The area I live in is notorious for Mud Fever, we are warm, wet and humid.

Being over heated in synthetic rugs brings on Rain Scald with a vengeance - think sneakers and sweaty feet and how easily you can get athletes foot. By the way Nizoral is great for getting rid of that!
 
Tnavas said:
Any rug will flatten the hair, waterproof or not. You need waterproof if you rug in winter otherwise you would have one very wet, cold miserable pony!
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Waterproof sheets are no filling rugs so wont be warm in winter. Thats why being naked is better than wearing a waterproof sheet. Thick winter coats have natural waterproofing.
 
Interesting post. I'll read more later
My 30 yr old has cushings and this is the first yr I've not.clipped. She's really itchy and was last winter before I clipped her

Have been told that this isn't a cushings symptom but sounds like it's very common
 
Tnavas said:
They are warm in that they prevent the horse getting wet and block the cold winds
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it has been proven that they do not keep the horse warm and they were designed for warm wet weather and to keep a horse clean when it is warm but the ground is muddy/wet. a waterproof sheet has no filling at all you need filling for warmth
 
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