monkeybum13
Well-Known Member
Anyobdy watching Denman
I expect AP to be a very a p!ssy jockey today!
I expect AP to be a very a p!ssy jockey today!
Now Now AP McCoy
- Thread starter monkeybum13
- Start date
Flame_
Well-Known Member
Ha ha, whooops!! Interesting race.
Come on Kauto for the Gold Cup.
Come on Kauto for the Gold Cup.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
just switched over and caught the replays
big big whoooops!
big big whoooops!
duggan
Well-Known Member
Hmmmm. Denman strikes me as being a little fragile, AP as usual dictating and getting Denman standing off, noticably a couple before the unseat. Looked like D put down on him when he made the first mistake, and again when he unshipped. Perhaps Denman liked Sam T's easygoing style rather than someone constantly making his mind up.
Poor AP was on a hiding to nothing, he was expected to win but is gonna get slated for falling off.....
Poor AP was on a hiding to nothing, he was expected to win but is gonna get slated for falling off.....
Erehwemos
Well-Known Member
Oh dear....Denman didnt deserve that. AP looked like he completely missed the stride - whether it was him fussing the horse too much, or him being too lazy and not placing Denman correctly, I don't know. I reckon AP might just find himself jocked off in future now though.....!
j1ffy
Well-Known Member
Lol, just went onto BBC.co.uk to check what you're talking about (OH is hogging the TV) and this is what I saw:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/horse_racing/8504548.stm
Talk about speaking too soon!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/horse_racing/8504548.stm
Talk about speaking too soon!
monkeybum13
Well-Known Member
I think John Francome's comment was very relevent about how Ruby rides on the bridle and AP always pushes for a stride,
Ties is with what duggan said (which was a very good point
)
Ties is with what duggan said (which was a very good point
3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
It was so obviously NOT McCoy's fault. I'm going to be driven mad by people piling the blame on him, i can feel it
monkeybum13
Well-Known Member
I wasn't saying it what his fault, just that he will beat himself up about it and that Ruby and AP have totally different riding styles.
There's not doubt AP is an amazing jockey
There's not doubt AP is an amazing jockey
3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
That was a QR.
3BayGeldings
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Oh dear....Denman didnt deserve that. AP looked like he completely missed the stride - whether it was him fussing the horse too much, or him being too lazy and not placing Denman correctly, I don't know. I reckon AP might just find himself jocked off in future now though.....!
[/ QUOTE ]
This, has actually just blown my mind. What a pile of rubbish. Were you watching the race?!
Oh dear....Denman didnt deserve that. AP looked like he completely missed the stride - whether it was him fussing the horse too much, or him being too lazy and not placing Denman correctly, I don't know. I reckon AP might just find himself jocked off in future now though.....!
[/ QUOTE ]
This, has actually just blown my mind. What a pile of rubbish. Were you watching the race?!
Starman
Well-Known Member
AP McCoy finding himself jocked off in future?.. Never read anything more ridiculous.
Erehwemos
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh dear....Denman didnt deserve that. AP looked like he completely missed the stride - whether it was him fussing the horse too much, or him being too lazy and not placing Denman correctly, I don't know. I reckon AP might just find himself jocked off in future now though.....!
[/ QUOTE ]
This, has actually just blown my mind. What a pile of rubbish. Were you watching the race?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, I was. Were you?
I am not slating AP as a jockey - I think he's one of the best. But in my view - having watched the replays - I think AP was worried by Niche Market coming up close behind, and this led him to 'fuss' Denman a bit too much - which clearly is not a style that the horse responds well to.
If my comments have 'blown your mind', I suggest you calm down a little and try not to get too stressed about a perfectly rational discussion
[ QUOTE ]
Oh dear....Denman didnt deserve that. AP looked like he completely missed the stride - whether it was him fussing the horse too much, or him being too lazy and not placing Denman correctly, I don't know. I reckon AP might just find himself jocked off in future now though.....!
[/ QUOTE ]
This, has actually just blown my mind. What a pile of rubbish. Were you watching the race?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep, I was. Were you?
I am not slating AP as a jockey - I think he's one of the best. But in my view - having watched the replays - I think AP was worried by Niche Market coming up close behind, and this led him to 'fuss' Denman a bit too much - which clearly is not a style that the horse responds well to.
If my comments have 'blown your mind', I suggest you calm down a little and try not to get too stressed about a perfectly rational discussion
Erehwemos
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
AP McCoy finding himself jocked off in future?.. Never read anything more ridiculous.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you think that Denman's connections are going to be 100% happy for AP's next run aboard Denman to be the Gold Cup....?
AP McCoy finding himself jocked off in future?.. Never read anything more ridiculous.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you think that Denman's connections are going to be 100% happy for AP's next run aboard Denman to be the Gold Cup....?
stencilface
High upon a hillside
Oh dear.
Even the gods can make mistakes people. We are all aware I'm sure how horses can make you look foolish, especially when its really important that they don't!!
Even the gods can make mistakes people. We are all aware I'm sure how horses can make you look foolish, especially when its really important that they don't!!
Erehwemos
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Oh dear.
Even the gods can make mistakes people. We are all aware I'm sure how horses can make you look foolish, especially when its really important that they don't!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh absolutely - I'd never say otherwise! Just because (IMO) AP's fall was partly his fault, doesn't mean to say I think he's no good as a jockey! As I said before, I for one think he's one of the best. But I don't feel that he and Denman are a perfect combination, and IMO this race has proved that. That is not saying ANYTHING against either horse or rider!
Oh dear.
Even the gods can make mistakes people. We are all aware I'm sure how horses can make you look foolish, especially when its really important that they don't!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh absolutely - I'd never say otherwise! Just because (IMO) AP's fall was partly his fault, doesn't mean to say I think he's no good as a jockey! As I said before, I for one think he's one of the best. But I don't feel that he and Denman are a perfect combination, and IMO this race has proved that. That is not saying ANYTHING against either horse or rider!
xwp
Well-Known Member
Hmmm i cant make my mind up of what to think...on one hand i think AP is fantastic but on the other i think he is the wrong rider for denman, im still backing kauto for the GC.
Nice ride from AP on Get me out of here just though.
Nice ride from AP on Get me out of here just though.
stencilface
High upon a hillside
Well, bet a win on the race after makes AP feel a bit better
Erehwemos
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well, bet a win on the race after makes AP feel a bit better
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup!
AP has just said that he was surprised and worried about Niche Market being so close, and had expected Denman to have more to give. Maybe the horse wasnt on top form today; maybe he didnt like AP's style, maybe it was just wasnt their day. Who knows? I guess that's racing!
Well, bet a win on the race after makes AP feel a bit better
[/ QUOTE ]
Yup!
AP has just said that he was surprised and worried about Niche Market being so close, and had expected Denman to have more to give. Maybe the horse wasnt on top form today; maybe he didnt like AP's style, maybe it was just wasnt their day. Who knows? I guess that's racing!
oldvic
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Oh dear....Denman didnt deserve that. AP looked like he completely missed the stride - whether it was him fussing the horse too much, or him being too lazy and not placing Denman correctly, I don't know. I reckon AP might just find himself jocked off in future now though.....!
[/ QUOTE ]
The first mistake was not AP missing, he sat quiet to let the horse pop and Denman didn't pick up sharp enough, nudged the top, landing a bit steep and with a little slip had to make a big effort to keep his feet. From there he was off the bridle but stood far too far off the ditch (not AP's idea) and landed in the fence. To me he never looked as powerful as he did in the Hennessy - and that wasn't the jockey.
Oh dear....Denman didnt deserve that. AP looked like he completely missed the stride - whether it was him fussing the horse too much, or him being too lazy and not placing Denman correctly, I don't know. I reckon AP might just find himself jocked off in future now though.....!
[/ QUOTE ]
The first mistake was not AP missing, he sat quiet to let the horse pop and Denman didn't pick up sharp enough, nudged the top, landing a bit steep and with a little slip had to make a big effort to keep his feet. From there he was off the bridle but stood far too far off the ditch (not AP's idea) and landed in the fence. To me he never looked as powerful as he did in the Hennessy - and that wasn't the jockey.
duggan
Well-Known Member
Why does a comment about one horse and rider combination mean you are rubbishing a jockey?? Get real people!
Why do top show jump riders get rid of fantastic horses and let other top riders have them, and then beat them? Because sometimes the two don't suit. Doesn't mean neither are good, it means they ride differently.
No one said it was AP's fault. Just that maybe he asked more than Denman was prepared to give, or that they were just not listening to each other. Or maybe Denman had knocked himself or over reached or something totally random. We don't know. But....we all have an opinion, and we are entitled to state it here. Me included!
Interestingly enough, one of our pointers was put on the floor by AP the only time ever he fell/only time AP rode him. He is very like Denman, an easy jumper, scopey and free, but easily flustered and taken out of his comfort zone. Won for plenty of others, but stick the top jock on board and he guessed at too many, and put them both down. My horse and AP are both superb, just much better apart
Why do top show jump riders get rid of fantastic horses and let other top riders have them, and then beat them? Because sometimes the two don't suit. Doesn't mean neither are good, it means they ride differently.
No one said it was AP's fault. Just that maybe he asked more than Denman was prepared to give, or that they were just not listening to each other. Or maybe Denman had knocked himself or over reached or something totally random. We don't know. But....we all have an opinion, and we are entitled to state it here. Me included!
Interestingly enough, one of our pointers was put on the floor by AP the only time ever he fell/only time AP rode him. He is very like Denman, an easy jumper, scopey and free, but easily flustered and taken out of his comfort zone. Won for plenty of others, but stick the top jock on board and he guessed at too many, and put them both down. My horse and AP are both superb, just much better apart
Perfect_Pirouette
Well-Known Member
QR
I was so sad when Denman stumbled the first time and felt instantly disheartened as I really couldn't see how he could bring himself back into the race, I think they both lost a bit of confidence
Second jump.....well, it was awful, i'm not sure who's to blame, probably a bit of both horse and rider. It was unfortunate, I kind of feel sorry for both jockey and horse as there was so much hype surrounding them and obviously they were the dead certs, it's a lot of pressure
But you can't win every race, I think it'll be close between Kauto and Denmen in GC, they're both brilliant and gorgeous horses, i'm looking forward to watching it
I was so sad when Denman stumbled the first time and felt instantly disheartened as I really couldn't see how he could bring himself back into the race, I think they both lost a bit of confidence
Second jump.....well, it was awful, i'm not sure who's to blame, probably a bit of both horse and rider. It was unfortunate, I kind of feel sorry for both jockey and horse as there was so much hype surrounding them and obviously they were the dead certs, it's a lot of pressure
But you can't win every race, I think it'll be close between Kauto and Denmen in GC, they're both brilliant and gorgeous horses, i'm looking forward to watching it
ladyt25
Well-Known Member
I agree with you - sometimes horse and rider combinations work better than others. I think AP maybe was getting concerned about the other horse gaining on him when he maybe wasn't giving Denman credit for his acceleration.
Shame really but with any luck it'll have taught them something. A few decisions to made before the GC me thinks!!
Shame really but with any luck it'll have taught them something. A few decisions to made before the GC me thinks!!
millitiger
Well-Known Member
QR- i think the first mistake was Denman's and the second was AP's.
for all saying AP is the wrong jock, Denman had an identical mistake with Sam at Aintree (and fell) and today Ruby very nearly came a pearler with Master Minded when he totally missed the last fence.
my only concern would be AP worrying about Denman's acceleration- Denman hasn't got much acceration and wins races by galloping the opposition into the ground.
for all saying AP is the wrong jock, Denman had an identical mistake with Sam at Aintree (and fell) and today Ruby very nearly came a pearler with Master Minded when he totally missed the last fence.
my only concern would be AP worrying about Denman's acceleration- Denman hasn't got much acceration and wins races by galloping the opposition into the ground.
jezabell
Well-Known Member
quite simple Denman had the wromg jockey on him.
oldvic
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
QR- i think the first mistake was Denman's and the second was AP's.
for all saying AP is the wrong jock, Denman had an identical mistake with Sam at Aintree (and fell) and today Ruby very nearly came a pearler with Master Minded when he totally missed the last fence.
my only concern would be AP worrying about Denman's acceleration- Denman hasn't got much acceration and wins races by galloping the opposition into the ground.
[/ QUOTE ]
The point is that he wasn't galloping the opposition into the ground. AP was wanting to sit turning in expecting the others to be struggling but Niche Market was going as well. To me it's interesting that Denman was off the bridle when he made the same mistake with Sam last year. A horse taking off too early is not jockey error.
QR- i think the first mistake was Denman's and the second was AP's.
for all saying AP is the wrong jock, Denman had an identical mistake with Sam at Aintree (and fell) and today Ruby very nearly came a pearler with Master Minded when he totally missed the last fence.
my only concern would be AP worrying about Denman's acceleration- Denman hasn't got much acceration and wins races by galloping the opposition into the ground.
[/ QUOTE ]
The point is that he wasn't galloping the opposition into the ground. AP was wanting to sit turning in expecting the others to be struggling but Niche Market was going as well. To me it's interesting that Denman was off the bridle when he made the same mistake with Sam last year. A horse taking off too early is not jockey error.
Legs11
Well-Known Member
Missed the race - can someone find it for me online so I too can have my say!? ;-)
LadyRascasse
Well-Known Member
my opinion is that AP felts pressured from niche pushed denman and he didn't responded forcing denman into an error. i'm not saying its APs fault just that he doesn't know which buttons work for that particular horse. i also though denman didn't look his best today either which doesn't help.
millitiger
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QR- i think the first mistake was Denman's and the second was AP's.
for all saying AP is the wrong jock, Denman had an identical mistake with Sam at Aintree (and fell) and today Ruby very nearly came a pearler with Master Minded when he totally missed the last fence.
my only concern would be AP worrying about Denman's acceleration- Denman hasn't got much acceration and wins races by galloping the opposition into the ground.
[/ QUOTE ]
The point is that he wasn't galloping the opposition into the ground. AP was wanting to sit turning in expecting the others to be struggling but Niche Market was going as well. To me it's interesting that Denman was off the bridle when he made the same mistake with Sam last year. A horse taking off too early is not jockey error.
[/ QUOTE ]
thats why i said i was concerned
precisely because he wasn't galloping the opposition into the ground!
not sure if you didn't read my post properly or whether you meant to quote me and then tell me the point i was making?
[ QUOTE ]
QR- i think the first mistake was Denman's and the second was AP's.
for all saying AP is the wrong jock, Denman had an identical mistake with Sam at Aintree (and fell) and today Ruby very nearly came a pearler with Master Minded when he totally missed the last fence.
my only concern would be AP worrying about Denman's acceleration- Denman hasn't got much acceration and wins races by galloping the opposition into the ground.
[/ QUOTE ]
The point is that he wasn't galloping the opposition into the ground. AP was wanting to sit turning in expecting the others to be struggling but Niche Market was going as well. To me it's interesting that Denman was off the bridle when he made the same mistake with Sam last year. A horse taking off too early is not jockey error.
[/ QUOTE ]
thats why i said i was concerned
not sure if you didn't read my post properly or whether you meant to quote me and then tell me the point i was making?
Echo Bravo
Well-Known Member
Neither Horse or jockey are gods, merely living breathing things. Yes I did watch the race and Denman wasn't going well on 2nd circuit, that is why McCoy looking behind. He also has as everyone says differant riding style which didn't suit horse, but come Cheltenham he will ride the horse to 1st place as he will now know the horse inside out.