Now the grass is through.... dealing with fatties - discussion

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Morgan123

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Hello, just wondered people's thoughts on this!

I have a Welsh cob who's bred for showing and he puts on weight in the summer as if he's a shetland. I've not really had a fat cob before and hate seeing him massive, but find the whole slimming thing a bit of a minefield in itself, so just wondered what people thought about the following (before i start - i ride him as much as i can which is five times a week or more and try and make him work a lot each time for max calorie burnage, but the amount of work doens't seem to make a difference to the fat!).

1) My yard doesn't have any sort of restricted grazing, just one big field. As a result in the summer i end up stabling him every night to restrict his food intake. he's perfectly happy in, but someone recently brought up a really good point - you know when people diet by starving themselves for 12 hours and it makes their body actually hang onto the calories, well maybe that happens with horses too?! could that be true? anyone know much about horse metabolism?

2) given the above, he has soaked hay in a small-holed haylage net and i try and put plenty of foraging sorts of treats around, i.e. a few fibre nuts (that's the only hard feed he gets, with a bit of supplement) scattered around his water bucket, swede in his haynet, carrots hidden around etc so that he is encouraged to eat his hay more slowly etc, as i can't give him too much of that! any other tips for slowing him down...??

3) is there any way to make a grazing mask nice to a horse?! they used to HATES them ut it would be the perfect answer :-(

4) I don't give him likits cos he eats the whole lot in one night which defeats the object as they are made of sugar. However, am finding he eats those tubs of molasses licks pretty slowly. but now the grass has come through, i'm wondering if i should take these out? I have a vague idea that molasses is a less digestable form of sugar than actual sugar so maybe it's not too bad (I may have invented that in my own head though) and also means more of the foraging style behaviour going on... not sure what people think about giving fat horses molasses licks?!

5) unfortunately he gets puffy legs in this stable. I know that's not serious and that they just go down on their own as he walks to the field, but LONG TERM could it cause more issues i.e. arthritis etc? I give him massages to get his lymph flowing and everything but still builds up...

Sorry this is turning out long... Anyone else have any thoughts on stuff you can do with fatties that helps, or the metabolism stuff mentioned above?! it's getting to the point where i'm starting to think about taking him jogging wiht me in the morning on a lead rope in addition to his workload....!!

thansk!!
 
sorry, point 3 was supposed to say that they used grazing masks in his old home to stop him eating straw after exercise so he hates them... bloody laptop!! :-)
 
I've never met a horse that likes grazing masks, its usually a bit of a wrestle to get them on but I would always use one if needed rather than increase the amount of time the horse is stabled.

With Daisy I only went on yards that would allow restricted grazing, for me thats a must but not a very helpful suggestion for you.

Have you tried NAF Slimline? Its a general purpose vit and min supplement with added bits in to help them loose weight by boosting their metabolism. I was sceptical but it does work.

Also have a think about which rugs you are using and whether you could get away with one with less or no fill. I used to keep Daisy in a no fill rainsheet for much of the year even though she was clipped. Horses aren't like humans, they are better off being slightly too cold than slightly too hot so if in any doubt put a cooler rug on.
 
When you say he is bred for showing, does that mean you show him too?

Because if not, I would seriously recommend clipping him out, stark naked, as from today and reclip as often as you need throughout the summer.

If it's a bit chilly at night or absolutely foul in the day, you could put a lightweight rug on, but otherwise leave him naked. It keeps my fatties slim, although you have to be tough with yourself - no use clipping him then putting really warm rugs on. It was recommended to me by a vet, and unless you show then there is no problem with a summer clip.

Is there anyone else at your yard with a similar problem? If so perhaps you could gang up and ask for a resricted grazing field. The best plan is to fence off a strip all round the field so they get lots of exercise walking round and back to the water.

And as much exercise as you can - if he behaves, take him jogging with you, although you might have more control if he long reins and you can jog along behind. I had to do that with a recovering tendon injury in daughter's pony - I was too big for him so long reined round our lanes, jiggling (my version of jogging!) behind him. Got some funny looks, but we both lost weight!
 
I am in the same situation however I dont have the option of a stable but can strip graze which was useless last year becasue they just dont move around so I have researched grazing muzzles and ordered the ones that came out on top, Dinky Grazzle muzzle from Dinky Rugs, they have padding, large area for nostrils, lightweight and breakaway headstall attached, about £20. So the plan is to muzzle during the day or night, then strip the other half of the day, but instead of eating sugar loaded stressed grass on the strip I plan to hang haynets from the trees so at least they get enough fibre, my horse has PSSM so no sugar for him.

Good luck.. be interested to reads others posts
 
I'm no expert but I also own a cob, and I'm pleased to say I've had no issues with him becoming fat.

I cut the hole in my shires grazing muzzle a little bit bigger, so he can nibble a bit.

If you can, mix his haynet with half hay and half straw. Soak it over night.

Cut out the carrots. Use a snack ball to feed the fibre cubes.

Exercise him as much as possible.

Cut out anything with molasses in.

I believe you are right in the fact that starving doesn't work with weight loss. Would probably be better to turn him out overnight with a grazing muzzle, and stable him during the day when he can be given small haynets every so often. (Less sugar in grass overnight too.)

Hope that helps I'm sure you will get some excellent advice from here :)
 
You definitely need to do something as he's high risk for laminitis.

Definitely take away the molasses licks - it's sugar and it's bad for them. Also stop giving him carrots - they are also high in sugar.

If your yard won't provide a starvation paddock then can you move to another yard that does? Why won't your yard provide a starvation paddock? Have you asked them - even electric fencing a section off would be better than nothing. All llivery yards should have the facility for restricted grazing - what would they do if one of the liveries did come down with lami?

If moving isn't possible then it would be better to stable him during the day and out at night, rather than the way you do it at present. Grass is highest in sugar in daylight hours. Your idea that 'starving' the horse for half the day actually makes them put on weight more by hanging onto the calories is incorrect and in any case you aren't starving him when you bring him in as he's eating hay.

I'm not a fan of grazing muzzles but sometimes they are the last and only option - better a grazing muzzle than laminitis.
 
I too have a Welsh D and have had a huge battle with laminitis since August last year...touch wood he is clear to start being walked out and ridden again.
When he was first stabled for his laminitis the vet put him on a bit of a diet and this consisted of feeding him 4 pads of small bale hay during the day and 3 pads at night.
Whilst this seemed to last no time at all for him, I was assured that it would make him loose weight whilst being enough rougage to keep everything working right and healthy. He did loose quite a lot of weight on this diet even though he was stodd in a stable 24/7 and not using any energy...so it is possible. You just have to get the balance right.
My lad is stabled at night now too and will be for the next year to ensure we keep everything stable foot wise. I feed him the same 3 pads in double nets and he goes out in the day on a trashed paddock that he has been on all winter with 3 pads then.
I have basically learn't to check him daily and adjust accordingly...now there are some blades of grass coming through the mud in his paddock I will start to cut down the hay gradually but still stable at night.
I weigh tape each week and condition score once per month - go to the horse welfare website for great help on how to do this - to monitor his weight and now I know how much he should weight and what he should look like, it makes things easier.
Once he is back in work (touch wood) he will be easier to keep slim.
When my lad lost the weight he got down to being slim all over with ribs slightly visible through a winter coat, hips easily felt and no gutter on his back or bum...this is what the vet says I should keep him at and that is what I work towards.
I am lucky that I rent a field and have a field stable so I can do what I like grazing wise and have no need for a grazing muzzle.
Good luck but it is worth doing something long term to keep your horses weight down as I would not wish the misery my horse and I went through with laminitis ion anyone or any horse.
My horse has no treats at all, no carrots, nothing...just hay, limited grass and two handfuls of chaff to put a supplement in.
 
thanks I'll definitely try the NAF slimline!!

My yard is really awkward - basically there's one starvation paddock but it's right next to a big bonfire where they burn lots of paint and stuff, so always things exploding, and also there's no shelter in it, and already one actual laminitic pony whihc does need priotiy really. a girl nearly got kicked out last year becuase she asked for strip grazing on the other fields (they are really that unreasonable). However everything else about it is nice, particularly the fact that it's literally on my doorstep, so i if i can stick with it then i will (though it goes wihtout saying that if it gets to the point where his health is actually in any danger i would move him).

he doesn't wear any rugs already, even through the winter, and i do condition score him frequently. keeping him in with all the exercise he gets does seem to just about keep him on the right side of obesity but i would really rather not do this all the time as i worry about his puffy legs, but just wondering if there's anything else...

will def take out the molasses licks then and stick wiht only very few fibre nuts or chaff.

thank you for your help. any other ideas...??
 
p.s. Mr Darcy re: the starving thing - he does have soaked hay, but the thing is if he's in all night that only lasts about an hour at the absolute most (hence the other things hidden around the stable to try and keep his gut moving). Therefore that is basically ten hours or so of nothing to eat (as wiht nearly all horses that are in)...
 
Could you enlist the help of someone else to ride him too? If you could get him for lots of long hard hacks you might be able to loosen up on the diet aspect.
 
I would try and ask your Y/O to have a paddock sectioned off for him, really is the best thing for them, I don't like the muzzles, I find they rub a lot.
How long are you soaking the hay for? I put mine out it 30/40 piles so the horse is concisely moving around, it doesn't matter how small the piles are.

Sounds like your working well, lots of uphill and down hill work will buld him up good, pole work is always good.
 
God I hate summer for this problem!!! I have a cob that also has the ability to get fat on fresh air. Last year I managed to plead for restricted grazing for him and YO actually put one of hers in with him for company !! I also agree with the less rugging, I have done this with H this winter and he is looking VERY good and is an ideal weight. He is also due to move to a different field soon with less quality grazing and smaller which will be better too, less headaches for me anyway!

I also found in the past exercise is the best thing and either keeping him in during the day or on a starvation section. I started lunging him 20 mins every night !

we should start a fat club owners support group !!!
 
How much soaked hay are you giving him if he's finished it within an hour? I used to have a fatty Welsh D and he got pretty much adlib soaked hay as it was soaked overnight, so literally nothing in it. I'd give him a net of soaked hay and a net of straw - if he's hungry, he has straw to munch on then.

I'd also stop feeding him carrots, they are full of sugar, and take away the molasses lick.

If you don't want to stable him then try a grazing muzzle. I doubt any horses like them but it's tough - a grazing muzzle he doesn't like is better than getting laminitis. If he was mine I'd be tempted to have him in during the day with a bit of soaked hay then turn out at night with grazing muzzle on.

How much work are you giving him? The more, the better, and long, marching, active hacks are by far the best. Vet came out to look at my IDxTB the other day who is a very good doer (not to deal with a weight prob!) and I asked about his weight. I think he is a bit overweight and I'm desperately trying to get weight off for the summer, but vet said he was within the ideal range for him but is right at the top end of that range. I already do a fair bit of hacking so vet says I have to increase the fast work (ie canter) he does - so he's on a fitness plan devised by the eventer on the yard! It's worth thinking about that too. Do you have a walker at the yard he can go on one end of the day, and you ride the other end?
 
i am pretty sure that the fructans in the grass are highest during daylight, lower overnight, so i'd have him out all night and stabled all day, IF it's not possible to do a pen with elec fence for him. no molasses, the last thing he needs is sugar if he's a fatty, imho! my mare hated a grazing muzzle, it made her utterly miserable and she wouldn't even drink with it on. :(
 
Stick with the muzzle, I use the shires/best mate ones which are about £15. I tried the dinky rugs ones but they're pointless.

Ditto having him in in the day as the sugar levels are lower at night.

Plenty of toys in his stable, snackballs are good with a low calorie nut inside. Soak your hay overnight and give it to him ad lib. NO molasses, carrots etc.

Exercise wise, lungeing is fabulous as you can get double the work in half the time, but stick to a good brisk 'marching' walk with him. Actually make him work from his back end, maybe over some poles so he really has to pick his feet up. Hacking out do lots of hills, and don't let him plod! He needs to work properly. I do ten mins lungeing a day on both shetlands to keep their weight in line.

Don't forget to keep in mind where our native breeds come from, it's nothing to do with his breeding lines or breeding purpose of how his weight is, it's down to the fact these ponies were designed to walk for miles to eat scrub. And we, as owners, let them amble ten feet into a field and have all the best grass they can. They're not designed for modern horse management, you have to look after them as basic native ponies who put on a bit of weight in the summer to lose it keeping warm in the winter. Unless being shown or worked hard (and I mean in full work and hunting twice a week!) natives shouldn't be rugged, stabled etc. Of course, nowadays it helps to have a stable just to keep them off that lush grass! I fully recommend a full out clip so he can shiver off a few lbs...
 
itsme123 said:
Stick with the muzzle, I use the shires/best mate ones which are about £15. I tried the dinky rugs ones but they're pointless. QUOTE)

Oh no I have just ordered two of them, interested to know why did you find Dinky Muzzles pointless?
Click to expand...
 
Urgh i know just what it's like! Mine can be such a fatty if i'm not careful! But i just give her VERY restricted grazing and use a muzzle in summer... Thing is.. i compete a lot with her so she needs some hard feed for energy.. but too much and she gets chubby!! Pfft horses are such a pain!! :D
 
Havnt read everyones replies but this is what i think-
-Yes, ditch the lick. A chelated mineral block with no mollasses is fine bu nothing molasses based.
-Dont over rug. i know its spring now but next year use the winter to get rid of as much fat as possible. By using rugs the horse doesnt use its own body fat to keep warm, hence stays fat.
-Yes, starving or long periods without food is counter productive. The horses body goes into starvation mode and clings on to the fat because of the lack of food.
-Active walking and trotting is he best way to burn fat
-You have to find a way to control grass intake. Either move yards, section off a bit or use a muzzle. If using a muzzle you have to train the horse to get used to it- slowly! Dont just put it on all day without building up to it.

I have ex laminitics that live out. but they are on minimal grass and fed hay instead- but they are never without food for long periods. The key is to mimic nature, get them skinny in the winter so a bit of weight loss in the summer doesnt hurt
 
When I put my boy on a diet last year, I found the blue Marksway Horsehage a Godsend. He was given it ad lib while he was in the stable and I also put him on restricted grazing with a net of it hanging off the gate. He lost approximately 80kg in just under a year. It's brilliant stuff and it meant he was never without anything to munch on (which I know we all worry about!). It's expensive (think it was approximately £6.50 a bale) but it was well worth the money in my opinion as it did the job nicely. I also cut out all hard feed.
He went from looking like this:

100_0238.jpg


100_0266.jpg


To this:

SP_A0230.jpg


I know it's a problem having restricted grazing where you are now, but if you're seriously concerned about his weight being a problem, perhaps a move to a new yard would be the best thing. I had to do it last March as I knew that the grazing at the yard I was currently at would probably kill him once they went out 24/7. I moved from a lovely little yard to somewhere that could offer me the kind of grazing I needed to keep my boys at a healthy weight ( also have a mini Shetland, who's lost loads of weight on the same diet!) I can honestly say it's the best thing I ever did. Really happy where I am now, and I know that my boys will be safe from laminitis. He's now able to have a bucket twice a day (Alfa A oil, Alfa Beet and Spillers High Fibre cubes) and he hasn't put any weight on at all. I weigh tape him and condition score him regularly and if I think he needs to lose a couple of kgs then I cut his feed back. It's all about making the right choices for your horse. :)
Hope you work things out for you and your horse and best of luck!
 
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