NPA behind wwyd?

[ponyparty]

I had B’s hooves x-rayed (edit: not x-rated ) yesterday. Fronts pretty good (if a bit flat with not a huge depth of sole, but vet was very pleasantly surprised. Hoorah!).
Hinds - as I suspected due to low heels and bullnosed appearance - are NPA.

I can’t boot and pad her 24/7 to remedy this, she lives out and the fields are too muddy at the minute.

We’re long reining with tack on currently (booted, with pads behind while she grows more heel). I’d like to hop back on and get her riding out in the next couple of weeks ideally - although I don’t have to, I could continue with groundwork if necessary. Her hoof health and long term soundness is more important.

Would having her shod behind only - remedially, with frog support and possibly wedges - be completely crazy? And just continuing with boots in front for work, as I don’t want to break what’s already fixing itself there?

What should I be asking/telling farrier? Obviously I will have vets share x rays with whoever I choose (and will make sure it’s one who’s going to work with me, with the goal of getting her barefoot all round, even if it means booted for work, long term).

I don’t mind booting her for riding but I think her hinds need some extra help at this stage.

Wwyd?

 

[ycbm]

This probably won't raise your spirits to read, sorry. I'm afraid that my, limited, experience of this is that it would normally be being caused by issues in the hind end. Is everyone sure she sound behind? Suspensories/hocks/SI?

Having said that, I have known horses made very much more comfortable with hind wedges and would certainly consider them, especially if there is something going on behind which can be rehabbed by the NPA being removed.
.

 

[ponyparty]

Glad you’ve replied ycbm, even though it’s with a less positive outlook than I was hoping for! Thank you.

I can’t detect lameness behind currently - but she isn’t really in enough work to be able to tell, if you see what I mean? She’s definitely weak behind - but how much of that is compensatory movement patterns from her long term crappy feet (which as far as I can tell were completely neglected/not trimmed at all for the approx 2 years she was turned away after she finished racing).

I could do with getting her up and running properly, to see if it throws up any more obvious issues - but don’t want to do that without addressing NPA first. It’s a bit chicken and egg, isn’t it

My current thinking is sort the NPA, get a body worker in, continue work on the ground, hop on board if I see improvements once she’s aligned and moving better - but if I don’t see improvements fairly quickly, then it would be vet work up from there.

Does that sound sensible?

Vet commented on how well she’s looking, how she’s got more topline since she saw her 6 months ago for her teeth and last vaccs, and how well she’s held her weight, so I’m doing right at least!

 

[McGrools]

I’m in the same boat. Tb mare. Currently barefoot but fronts are doing much better than the hinds. All 4 feet xrayed 3 weeks ago and very slight npa in hinds. Thin soles all round. Vet wants her in 3d pads on all 4 feet. She will not grow any heel on the hinds at all after trying for best part of 18 months so I have to admit defeat and go for the pads. I am dreading having to worry about lost shoes all the time and I dont think it will be a magic cure but we might get out and about a bit this summer. I can’t get on with hind boots for jumping or faster work

 

[ponyparty]

Sorry to hear you’re struggling with this too! I had forgotten all about the potential for lost shoes that’ll be fun, in the vast sea of mud we have currently.

I really don’t want to shoe in front, all the good work I have done over the last 7 months could be undone. I’m going to see how open farrier is to working with me like this. Give him a clear objective of growing some heel, getting back into alignment and getting the feet a more normal shape, with a view to going back to barefoot and booted after a few shoeing cycles. See what he says. There are others I can ask if needs be.

If you want to crack on with yours then you’ve gotta do whatever will get her comfortable. I have no big goals with mine, mostly pootling around the lanes and bridleways around here. Would love to do fun rides and camp and clinics eventually, but need to see what she’ll stand up to work-wise and go from there.

 

[Fieldlife]

Yogi sharp’s stuff equine documentalist is worth reading. He had horses on his books only shod behind to correct hind NPA.

Do you definitely not have enough sole depth to part correct barefoot?

 

[ponyparty]

Oh yes I have read Yogi Sharp’s stuff, and scores more along similar lines. know what needs to be done in theory, I just don’t have much faith in farriers, trimmers, or many professionals, having been burnt before! Hopefully farrier I’ve chosen (who used to shoe my old horse so I know fairly well) will be open to this.

Mine has enough sole depth in front to be comfortable in the field. I’m booting for work currently, I would like to see her grow a bit more heel height and the surfaces we work on are hard and abrasive (road). More sole depth would be great and hopefully will come in time. Def intend to keep barefoot in front.

Behind she appears on x ray to have good depth, but I think she has a lot of false sole she needs to shed. And she’s definitely NPA with broken back hoof/pastern alignment. With the fields as muddy as they are I can’t really boot and pad 24/7, I think shoeing is the only way - at least until the ground dries out and she has grown some foot.

 

[Michen]

I had a horse with it, it was not due to any other pathologies but likely poor hoof care when he was in ireland (he did then go on to injure a suspensory branch very lightly). I was so against shoeing and steered clear of wedges (or did I, actually maybe I did one cycle then threw them out) but did use frog support pads long term, this got his hooves back in better shape.

 

[McGrools]

Sorry to hear you’re struggling with this too! I had forgotten all about the potential for lost shoes that’ll be fun, in the vast sea of mud we have currently.

I really don’t want to shoe in front, all the good work I have done over the last 7 months could be undone. I’m going to see how open farrier is to working with me like this. Give him a clear objective of growing some heel, getting back into alignment and getting the feet a more normal shape, with a view to going back to barefoot and booted after a few shoeing cycles. See what he says. There are others I can ask if needs be.

If you want to crack on with yours then you’ve gotta do whatever will get her comfortable. I have no big goals with mine, mostly pootling around the lanes and bridleways around here. Would love to do fun rides and camp and clinics eventually, but need to see what she’ll stand up to work-wise and go from there.

I have been hacking out with flex boots and pads on hinds, bare in front although she does have a few layers of hoof armour on.
I would be happy to stay like that if we were just bumbling about but I am hoping she will do a couple of one day events.
It was constant lost shoes that started me on the bf journey with her, that was before 3d pads at the best part of £200 a set!! Ouch!
I suspect it will be just a summer experiment or even shorter lived than that then back to bare. I love not having to worry about lost shoes and being dependant on a farrier. Trying to upload a photo but struggling

 

[McGrools]

She feels good hacking in this set up but these hind boots not secure enough for fast work/ jumping

 

[ponyparty]

I’ve got mine in Exploras in front, which I’m quite liking so far. Behind though, her hooves are such a weird shape I’m restricted to Fusions - they’re so clumpy, even just for bimbling around the lanes. Would love to try hoof armour, but with a horse that lives out I’d struggle to apply it at the moment. Maybe when the ground dries up…

Let me know how you get on, McGrools! When are you having her shod?

 

[McGrools]

I’ve got mine in Exploras in front, which I’m quite liking so far. Behind though, her hooves are such a weird shape I’m restricted to Fusions - they’re so clumpy, even just for bimbling around the lanes. Would love to try hoof armour, but with a horse that lives out I’d struggle to apply it at the moment. Maybe when the ground dries up…

Let me know how you get on, McGrools! When are you having her shod?

Tuesday! I’m nervous. I’m a total barefoot advocate but this mares hind feet just aren’t up to it. Will keep you posted.

 

[McGrools]

I’ve got mine in Exploras in front, which I’m quite liking so far. Behind though, her hooves are such a weird shape I’m restricted to Fusions - they’re so clumpy, even just for bimbling around the lanes. Would love to try hoof armour, but with a horse that lives out I’d struggle to apply it at the moment. Maybe when the ground dries up…

Let me know how you get on, McGrools! When are you having her shod?

My girl was struggling in the wet ground so I brought her in for most of feb which dried her feet out well and hardened them up. Plus the hoof armour and she is pretty good in front. She doesn’t flinch over small stones anymore. But yes I couldnt have done that if she was out in the wet

 

[ycbm]

I’m in the same boat. Tb mare. Currently barefoot but fronts are doing much better than the hinds. All 4 feet xrayed 3 weeks ago and very slight npa in hinds. Thin soles all round. Vet wants her in 3d pads on all 4 feet. She will not grow any heel on the hinds at all after trying for best part of 18 months so I have to admit defeat and go for the pads. I am dreading having to worry about lost shoes all the time and I dont think it will be a magic cure but we might get out and about a bit this summer. I can’t get on with hind boots for jumping or faster work

I know this is of little help to a lot of people because it's so unachievable, but there are some horses who will only recover from thin shoes and weak feet of they are removed from grass totally and fed only low sugar feeds.

It saved the life of my worst rehab. But it is very difficult to achieve with a big horse and nigh on impossible in livery.
.

 

[McGrools]

I know this is of little help to a lot of people because it's so unachievable, but there are some horses who will only recover from thin shoes and weak feet of they are removed from grass totally and fed only low sugar feeds.

It saved the life of my worst rehab. But it is very difficult to achieve with a big horse and nigh on impossible in livery.
.

Yes I know, but I can’t commit to the full shebang. She will wear a bucket muzzle for much of the summer to restrict but grass free would be too much of a stretch xx

 

[ponyparty]

Yup, grass free is unachievable for me too, and frankly if that was my only option with this horse I think I’d pts. She’s got a chance to come good with me, but if she doesn’t I’m not going down that rabbit hole again. I’ll never send a horse away again, that’s for sure, and there’s nowhere round here that offers grass free livery.

I would have loved to have the option to bring in to let feet dry off but it’s not been possible at current setup. They do have access to a field shelter, but they’re out grazing most of the time so it’s not quite the same. Management of the yard is changing soon - landowners will be running the yard themselves - so I’m hoping for some positive changes, otherwise I will probably have to move yards before next winter.

Good luck for Tuesday McGrools. I’m hoping for the next couple of weeks, I’ll update here too!

 

[McGrools]

Yup, grass free is unachievable for me too, and frankly if that was my only option with this horse I think I’d pts. She’s got a chance to come good with me, but if she doesn’t I’m not going down that rabbit hole again. I’ll never send a horse away again, that’s for sure, and there’s nowhere round here that offers grass free livery.

I would have loved to have the option to bring in to let feet dry off but it’s not been possible at current setup. They do have access to a field shelter, but they’re out grazing most of the time so it’s not quite the same. Management of the yard is changing soon - landowners will be running the yard themselves - so I’m hoping for some positive changes, otherwise I will probably have to move yards before next winter.

Good luck for Tuesday McGrools. I’m hoping for the next couple of weeks, I’ll update here to

We should be on the way to drier weather now so it will be easier to do hoof armour for you. It is a great help. I really like it.
I’m realistic re shoeing and will just see what comes but it is disapponting when back feet usually cope better than fronts without shoes. Not in this case! Always learning

 

[Clodagh]

Can I be a numpty… what’s NPA?

 

[McGrools]

Can I be a numpty… what’s NPA?

Negative palmar angle. Coffin bone angle. Will try to post picture

 

[Clodagh]

Negative palmar angle. Coffin bone angle. Will try to post picture

Thank you.

 

[McGrools]

Can I be a numpty… what’s NPA?

 

[McGrools]

Not my horse btw , just a random one off the internet

 

[McGrools]

These are my mares hinds. Thin soles and just very slight npa

 

[SEL]

I've got a pony with wonky hind feet - she was wearing the lateral edge so badly her frogs were barely visible. She was sore and boots were no good.

Shoes with lateral extensions on hinds and she's so much happier. Frogs are now developing and her muscle tone is much better. Still barefoot in front.

 

[McGrools]

I've got a pony with wonky hind feet - she was wearing the lateral edge so badly her frogs were barely visible. She was sore and boots were no good.

Shoes with lateral extensions on hinds and she's so much happier. Frogs are now developing and her muscle tone is much better. Still barefoot in front.

And is she in work with this set up? I feel it will be a bit odd for me to be out and about in hind shoes only.

 

[sbloom]

I hate to say this but xrays should be taken showing the cannon bone on the vertical. It may just be they've been cropped, but it does seem its an issue with vets not taking them correctly so worth me stating it to help others.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/tMVzvQqVy3FFC8RL/ and I've seen other posts on the same subject.

 

[SEL]

And is she in work with this set up? I feel it will be a bit odd for me to be out and about in hind shoes only.

Yes - happy hacker.

Fronts are rock solid but she wears them oddly. I did try for boots but there is nothing that fits her odd shape and tbh she doesn't need them.

 

[McGrools]

I hate to say this but xrays should be taken showing the cannon bone on the vertical. It may just be they've been cropped, but it does seem its an issue with vets not taking them correctly so worth me stating it to help others.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/tMVzvQqVy3FFC8RL/ and I've seen other posts on the same subject.

Thankyou, didn’t know that xx

 

[McGrools]

Thankyou, didn’t know that xx

Vet took photos of the X-rays on my phone. I’m Not sure what the actual image looked like.

 

[sbloom]

Vet took photos of the X-rays on my phone. I’m Not sure what the actual image looked like.

It might be worth asking to see the whole xray, and having a small hissy if they don't include the (vertical) cannon bone.