NS Bits - educate me please

Aces_High

Aces_High

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I have just been looking at new saddles and there was a link for NS bits so I thought I'd have a look. I've never read such a load of marketing garbage in my life.

A bit which will help set your horse up for arrow heads???

A bit which lifts the shoulder and softens the neck????

A bit which promotes outline and turning???

It might be me who has a complete misconception of what NS is all about but how on earth can they market a selection of bits which basically make your horse work softly in an outline, easy to turn, lifting through it's shoulders and set up for arrow heads. Forgive me if I am wrong but surely this is down to the rider and good, correct training?

Educate the uneducated please.....

PS I am now thinking of starting a bit making company and they will all have a lozenge and I will employ top marketing chiefs :p
 
I suppose it is just a layman's terms way of saying this bit has more tongue relief, that one gives more pressure on the bars etc ;)
Don't knock NS though, as they are very good quality bits with a lot of research behind the design :)
 
Hmm, i must admit i fell for all this marketing blurb awhile and bought my horse one of their hanging cheeks with a lozenge, on the thinking that he goes quite well in an ordinary stainless steel hanging cheek so surely as these are more expensive, made from different metal etc he will go even better in it. In my case though he didn't seem to take to it at all and is much happier in a standard french link. I find the lozenge is quite narrow which doesn't allow enough room for his big tongue (he's a warmblood). I also tried it on my anglo arab but he didn't like it much either! To be honest I don't know many horses that do go well in these bits, most seem to not want to really soften into a contact in them. The only one I've seen work quite well on certain horses is the NS universal (the one a bit like a dutch gag). I am sure NS bits do work for some people but personally I've not been that impressed. :(
 
martlin said:
I suppose it is just a layman's terms way of saying this bit has more tongue relief, that one gives more pressure on the bars etc ;)
Don't knock NS though, as they are very good quality bits with a lot of research behind the design :)
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I am confused as to how the 3 points I pulled out say in layman's terms that the bit has more tongue relief, more pressure on the bars etc - why not just say that as that's pretty layman's!

I am not knocking them - I haven't used them but I just think that the lesser educated will be thinking wow my horse is going to work like a dream and pay £££ for one. I might stick one in my youngsters mouth, whilst she's out in the field and see if she can jump the skinny which I'll build - obviously she will not need a rider for this :rolleyes: :rolleyes: the bit will do the steering and the work :D

I know a horse needs to be happy in it's mouth but that marketing blub is a load of bulls**t as far as I am concerned!
 
Unfortunately NS are the ONLY make of bit about which I have heard stories of them snapping. I've heard this on here, more than once, and on other forums. :( :( :(
So, i'd seriously dispute the 'good quality' part. My money goes on Sprenger, Myler, John Dewsbury, and top quality bits like that. I have NEVER heard of one of those breaking. I've used mine for years and years.
As for the advice about lifting shoulders etc... hmmm. I've heard that sort of thing said about other types of bit too. hmmm. I think there's a real limit to what a bit can do, and it depends 99% on the hands at the other end of the reins, and the seat and legs etc...
 
Of course it is bullshit... :)
BUT, let me give you an example, NS Verbindend, now I am not sure how it was designed, cos I can't be bothered to study it too closely :o. It says on the website that it gives lift of the shoulder, and it does, just like a cheltenham or balding gag would, now if it said that it works like cheltenham gag, it would sound like that Golf advert - pretty naf :D

I fear I am not expressing myself too well today, so please forgive me my waffle :o
 
I use a NS bit on my horse. He used to go nicely in his old stainless steel fullcheek but he is 100x better in the NS. He is so much more through into the contact and malleable, honestly he feels like a different horse to ride so yes I think there is science behind that marketing blurb.

It is very light and beautifully designed which I like. My horse opens his mouth for it whereas with my old bit I used to have stick my finger in and dig my nail into his gum to get him to open up.

I have heard of manufacturing problems though. Mines fine but my mums one had one cheek shorter on one side than the other on her full cheek snaffle and I nearly brought one that had not been finished off properly and had a sharp edge. Its a shame as the design and materials are fabulous I just think they need to change their manufacturer.

My bit is fine though and I think anything else that I put in my horses mouth again will probably feel like wearing sacking after silk! No it wont make a horse well schooled but I noticed a big difference, my horse is so much more soft in my hand and spongy its untrue.

I have a Sprenger KK bit and thats horrid in comparison, very very heavey, I havent had one horse that liked that bit.
 
I have several, and they did really help improve my older mares acceptance of the bit - she is much happier in her mouth now.

In terms of manufacturing, I found what I thought might be a fault on my weymouth, rang them, and they asked to be sent photos, which I did. They then asked me to post it to them, and they replaced it immediately. After testing it etc, they said it wasn't faulty, in that it was dangerous, just a dot of the metal used to join them had ended up on the mouthpeice.
 
CrazyMare said:
I have several, and they did really help improve my older mares acceptance of the bit - she is much happier in her mouth now.QUOTE]

I completely understand what you are saying and I am sure horses like them. My point is they market them in a sense that your horse could go around Burghley and win minus a pilot and achieve 1st place due to the remarkable capabilities of these bits!!
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Aces_High said:
CrazyMare said:
I have several, and they did really help improve my older mares acceptance of the bit - she is much happier in her mouth now.QUOTE]

I completely understand what you are saying and I am sure horses like them. My point is they market them in a sense that your horse could go around Burghley and win minus a pilot and achieve 1st place due to the remarkable capabilities of these bits!!
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LOL, I've never read the blurbs - I tried my instructors, and then bought mine off the back of that!
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I feel like I need a new bit for mine - currently in a french link eggbutt - but I don't know what? He seems happy enough in thsi bit, but I wonder if he'd be happier in something different. My instructor raves about balanced bits but I've not been able to find much on them tbh, and they only seem to do a fulmer cheek, which I don't like when you don't need it.
I saw a stubben but the other day - loose ring but with 'wings' to protect the sides of the mouth from pinching, looked like a good idea but didn't want to spend £60 to try it out :o
 
Stencilface said:
I feel like I need a new bit for mine - currently in a french link eggbutt - but I don't know what? He seems happy enough in thsi bit, but I wonder if he'd be happier in something different. My instructor raves about balanced bits but I've not been able to find much on them tbh, and they only seem to do a fulmer cheek, which I don't like when you don't need it.
I saw a stubben but the other day - loose ring but with 'wings' to protect the sides of the mouth from pinching, looked like a good idea but didn't want to spend £60 to try it out :o
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If you want your horse to win a 4* without the need of a jockey on board - try the NS - phenomenal according to the blurb - he'll even jump skinny's without steering..... :eek: :eek:

My real advice would be if you can try one from a friend do so, if not and you don't want to fork out £60 on a new bit - why fix it when it ain't broke.... :)
 
Aces_High said:
If you want your horse to win a 4* without the need of a jockey on board - try the NS - phenomenal according to the blurb - he'll even jump skinny's without steering..... :eek: :eek:
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was that necessary? really? You're doing an awesome job of representing your charity by the way, taking the p out of folks choices on a public forum.

I shall put my donation money firmly back in my pocket after that comment - at least until I have calmed down.

I use an NS bit on one of my horses. Does that make me an idiot who thinks my horse can now lead me blindly around Badminton? No. It makes me an owner who after lots of research and trying different bit/noseband set ups under the supervision of an incredibly experienced Instructor - who would be the first to tell me to keep my money if she didnt think it would work - finally found a bit that my horse gave me a more consistant contact in. If I could have found the same bit by another manufacturer for less money I would have got it, but I haven't, so I spent my money to get what seemed best for my horse. The fact is that horses mouths and conformation are different, what works for one doesnt work for another and generalisations do no one any good.

So what if the blurb is stupid - I've never read it - but in some circumstances the product works, thats surely the most important thing. If your stupid enough to think people read the blurb and think that using an NS bit will suddenly make them Mary King then your less intelligent than you think they are.

You may think you're taking the mickey out of the product and the marketing but what you're doing is insulting the people who use the product.
 
Scarlett said:
was that necessary? really? You're doing an awesome job of representing your charity by the way, taking the p out of folks choices on a public forum.

I shall put my donation money firmly back in my pocket after that comment - at least until I have calmed down.

I use an NS bit on one of my horses. Does that make me an idiot who thinks my horse can now lead me blindly around Badminton? No. It makes me an owner who after lots of research and trying different bit/noseband set ups under the supervision of an incredibly experienced Instructor - who would be the first to tell me to keep my money if she didnt think it would work - finally found a bit that my horse gave me a more consistant contact in. If I could have found the same bit by another manufacturer for less money I would have got it, but I haven't, so I spent my money to get what seemed best for my horse. The fact is that horses mouths and conformation are different, what works for one doesnt work for another and generalisations do no one any good.

So what if the blurb is stupid - I've never read it - but in some circumstances the product works, thats surely the most important thing. If your stupid enough to think people read the blurb and think that using an NS bit will suddenly make them Mary King then your less intelligent than you think they are.

You may think you're taking the mickey out of the product and the marketing but what you're doing is insulting the people who use the product.
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I was talking about the marketing blurb - read my posts - I haven't said anything against the bits and I am certainly not berating anyone who uses NS.
 
'Ideal for directional control. Helps set them up for arrowheads etc.' - directly from their website. That's my point. How can a bit set a horse up for an arrowhead??? To me as I have said all along it's 99% the rider.

Lighten up a bit - it was tongue in cheek from the start.
 
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Yes, its all marketing speak, so what? Isn't just about everything marketed with that kind of language? Its all over our day-to-day lives.

'Ideal for directional control' reads to me as 'will help you steer better', maybe something with a fixed cheek or a more stable mouthpiece. I don't believe they would dare insinuate that it will suddenly make a horse jump a skinny straight as a die without a rider, but they might suggest it'll help with your steering.

Tongue in cheek? It doesnt come across that way to me, sorry.
 
Ha, yes, I know what you mean about the blurb. HOWEVER, I've got one for PF (the Elevator, which is meant to bring the front end up an make her sit on her hocks ;) ) and she goes beautifully in it. That said, she went very nicely in a bog standard Tom Thumb which is a very similar design :)
I think it boils down to horses liking the taste, being comfortable in the mouth due to the design (in my case the angled lozenge) and coming together better.
 
trainer suggested the NS eggbutt with the lozenge for my TB who is a bit difficult in his mouth he is loads better in (was in a kk ultra ) the NS .
 
I started mouthing my 2 year old last year in a vulcanite straight bar, as I do for all my babies, and she wasn't accepting it at all - over mouthing, trying to get tongue over etc... I then moved her into a jointed vulcanite eggbut (my 2nd choice for babies!) and she was just the same.. Then tried a metal french link, and still the same. Having tried and failed with all my usual "baby bits" I bought a 2nd hand NS "Starter" bit and she's mouthing that properly, not once tried to get the tongue over which she was was doing ALL the time in the "normal" bits.

My lesson from that would be, if it ain't broke don't fix it, but if you're having issues then try the alternatives, one of which is a NS...
 
Polotash said:
I started mouthing my 2 year old last year in a vulcanite straight bar, as I do for all my babies, and she wasn't accepting it at all - over mouthing, trying to get tongue over etc... I then moved her into a jointed vulcanite eggbut (my 2nd choice for babies!) and she was just the same.. Then tried a metal french link, and still the same. Having tried and failed with all my usual "baby bits" I bought a 2nd hand NS "Starter" bit and she's mouthing that properly, not once tried to get the tongue over which she was was doing ALL the time in the "normal" bits.

My lesson from that would be, if it ain't broke don't fix it, but if you're having issues then try the alternatives, one of which is a NS...
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Good post that sums it up nicely
 
PapaFrita said:
I use one (2, in fact) and I don't feel the least bit insulted.
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This ^^^^^.

FWIW I found the NS trans universal awesome, and know loads of people who have found it great...but I dont know anyone who has bought one just based on the blurb. Im sure NS aren't the only company to make slightly exaggerated claims....in fact I'm off to look for some now! (and also to put of exam marking and tack cleaning!!):D
 
Saddles.
Albion saddles have been continually developed over 25 years and are now recognised as one of the worlds leading saddle brands. The design and engineering of the product, sets it apart from all other competitors, and the quality and quantity of professional riders throughout the world proves that the 'science of feel' really brings superior results

Lovely saddles but do I really think that buying a saddle will give me superior results? Um no- probabally would be better spending my money on lessons but still very nice saddles...and what is the 'science of feel'?
 
I am reading this post with interest. I am in the market for a new bit, my horse does not have a problem per se with his current bit - a french link snaffle but does not salivate much, so was looking into a second hand kk ultra ect. But them I am thinking maybe he does not need to salivate like a rabid dog. I don't know what to think?
FWIW I use a leather strap on the back of a three ring gag on the second ring when going cross country with great effect but have no desire to spend £60+ on the NS Universal.
 
havn't read entire post

Of course it's a bit of a blurb, but that's what marketing is these days. Lots of dressage saddles promise to put you in a better position - but actually that comes from hard work, perseverence and being the right shape for whichever specific saddle you buy.

My experience of NS is as follows. I got the team up for my youngster who'd only ever been in a normal basic eggbutt and he went 100% better in it. Perhaps he'd have gone better in a basic french link/standard lozenge bit, but I liked the advice their staff gave, so went with that one and have been rewarded.

Having been impressed, I then went back to them with old set in her ways fell pony. She had never been taught how to work properly (was pointed and kicked at fences) and wasn't entirely built for it. She found coming off her forehand very difficult, and often set her head and neck and bore down on her poor rider, who often ended up with cramp in her arms. This rider was doing exercises and working with an experienced instructor on these problems.

They recommended the verbinand (or something like that) bit, which may possibly be the one described as lifting the shoulders. We purchased it, tried it, and the difference was incredible. The pony was more accepting of the bit, and since switching the rider has never once had pain in her arms from riding. It was an overnight difference.

So whilst their website might be a bit blurby (perhaps they should word it was 'helps to lift shoulders when combined with correct schooling exercises), my experience has lead me to believe that their bits do help the problems as the website suggests.
 
I wasn't going to post again but I am pleased that the thread has been seen as it was intended :P I do not post on here to offend and certainly wouldn't criticise anyone on here as I do not know you!! :D

I agree 100% with everyone - the training and schooling comes from the rider and yes it does help if the horse is happy in it's mouth. There are millions of bits on the market and it can sometimes take a while to find what suits the horse and rider. Be it a bog standard stainless steel egg butt snaffle or a NS (one that beings with a V (no idea how to spell it)) I was merely taking the 'P' out of the wording from the marketing blurb :)

* trots off to find an Albion Dressage saddle so I can find those superior results!!* It will take a long long long while - that much I do know :D :D
 
I have a theory that at the height of the boom when lots of people were buying horses etc with not enough knowledge alot of tack websites were dumbed down a bit, primarily to increase sales (they are running businesses after all). It is not uncommon to see "showjumping bits" or "hunting bits". I am a big fan of NS bits, have never had any issues my oldest ones are 7 years old and in perfect nick.
 
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