NY carriage horse dies in street

[Ranyhyn]

so sad for him, RIP horsey
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ral-Park-carriage-horse-COLLAPSED-street.html

 

[itsonlyme]

Poor horse. I never realised how many hours they work every day.

I dont agree with the woman who says

'Healthy horses do not drop dead on the street.

'The drivers always like to profess that they are such horse experts.

'If that is so, then shouldn't the driver have been more sensitive to this horse and noticed that something was wrong.'

Horses, like people, can drop dead at any time.

At least they're doing a necropsy. I doubt they'd bother if it happened over here.

 

[BBH]

Yes I saw this earlier.

Very Sad and although it doesn't state the horse was worked to death there does seem some hope that the length of time the horses work will be reduced.

 

[Ranyhyn]

I have been on a carriage ride in NY, we had an old but very hale amish ex racer (allegedly!) we were given carrots and apples to feed him afterwards and his driver seemed very proud of him. It seems that the animal agents over there will tell them all to go in, if the weather is too hot etc and they have water/nosebags etc but it can, as someone has said - all be down to the individual. He doesn't look in bad condition outwardly and is of the right "type" you'd have thought.

Lets hope its not linked to any mistreatment and that they do continue to work with the authorities to make it as pleasant as possible for the horses.

 

[misswitch2]

I'm in NY alot and see these horses all the time. They always look in good condition and regularly see them rested with nose bags and water.

That said, i never realised that they work so long, and i never think that NYC is a very good place for a horse. It's so busy and noisy for them, and it's alot of road work.

 

[stencilface]

9 hours is a long day for a horse in that environment. Poor horse, I don't like the bit about them waiting for it to be loaded into the trailer, not loaded in a way we would think of, but dragged by its feet.

(I know there is not other way - just questioning choice of words!)

 

[posie_honey]

i went in a NY carriage ride back in feb 2000 (ok so a good while back now!) but the horse was well kept and healthy looking - even in the middle of a v cold winter

i'm not denying that their hours are long and some are mistreated - but there are obv some good owners there who really do look after their horses

 

[SusannaF]

The horse looks in good nick, but it must be pretty awful for them in the worst of the summer. But agree, horses are mortal, and heart attacks happen to all mortals.

But if people want to see what real neglect looks like, here's what happened to a horse that wasn't in work, in LA (and there are plenty more like her):

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unl...ciated-horse-dumped-on-south-gate-street.html

(warning, photo is really grim)

 

[applecart14]

I dont agree with the woman who says

Horses, like people, can drop dead at any time.

My previous horse aged 14 dropped dead in front of my yard owner. She turned him out, he trotted off down the field with his mate, she turned to leave the field and heard him make a funny noise, she went up to him, he was trembling as she stroked him, and then fell at her feet dead. When we arrived he was laid in the field in his rug. Not a bead of sweat under his rug, not a single blade of grass disturbed at his feet. Glad it was quite quick for him. I had reiki not long after with a reiki whisperer and she said my horse had 'appeared' to her and told her he had a tightening across his chest and had to leave, he was sorry he didn't get to say goodbye to me. Her words nearly broke my heart, but was reassuring at the same time that there is another life after this one.

Horses quite often have heart attacks. Especially those gelded late.

 

[MadBlackLab]

Its a sad story but like others have echoed horses can just drop dead even the healthy ones. In a way its less painful for them

 

[GinaB]

I hate the DM's insistance in posting such awful and distressing pictures Like those of Gaddafi/Michael Jackson/Yeu Yeu etc Even though they put 'Warning Graphic Content' quite often one of the pictures is included with the headline so you don't even need to click on the link!

Poor horse, RIP x

 

[millhouse]

Very sad. Rest in peace dear horse.

 

[HihoGinger]

Horses quite often have heart attacks. Especially those gelded late.

Really? Why's that?

 

[applecart14]

Really? Why's that?

This is what my vet told me and I know this is going to sound really naff now but it was some time ago and I can't really remember quite what he said. I think it was something like when stallions are used for breeding, and when they climb off the mare (sorry not into breeding so not sure of correct terminology) sometimes they have a kind of 'colic looking episode' where they can collapse or 'stagger'. If I remember correctly the vet said it was due to abnormal pressure of blood pumping into or surrounding the heart. I'm guessing that this becomes weakened over time.

I suppose he was saying that horses that are gelded late are gelded late because they have often been used for breeding.

Not sure if I've made much sense there, as I say the discussion was a long time ago. I guess i was just looking for an answer as my 11 year old was gelded very late and he was considered a rig although blood tested negative.

I was forced (long story) by various liveries and an unscoupulous yard owner into giving the horse a hormone injection called Depo Provera which was at the time (and may still be) unlicensed for use in horses and I had to sign a disclaimer from the vets due to this. He had three injections in all over a period of months. He dropped down dead as described earlier in the post of a heart attack. It was years after that I asked my vet (another practice) if the injections could have contributed and explained about him being gelded late. This is why I was given the explanation I have given you above.

So sorry I can't be any clearer.

 

[applecart14]

I think it was something like when stallions are used for breeding, and when they climb off the mare (sorry not into breeding so not sure of correct terminology) sometimes they have a kind of 'colic looking episode' where they can collapse or 'stagger'.

Think the vet may have been referring to aortic - iliac thrombosis as I've googled to try and find you the information, although i can't see anywhere that this results in death, other than by humane destruction and not from a heart attack.

If I see the vet again I will ask him what he meant. Sorry to be so vague.

 

[luckyoldme]

that horse does nt look neglected to me. Also im not sure how anyone could load a horse any other way than dragging it with a winch. that s why most of us dont hang around to see our horses buried or carted away.
On a lighter note he made the papers... i reckon quite a few people drop dead on streets without making the papers!

 

[SusannaF]

Apparently he'd only been working a month.

I get a Google News Alert with all news items mentioning horses, and the stuff from the US just now is full of reports of genuinely starved, truly neglected horses, turning up by the thousands. One carriage horse, who looks in good nick, dies, and people cry cruelty. They don't know what that looks like...

 

[HihoGinger]

Think the vet may have been referring to aortic - iliac thrombosis as I've googled to try and find you the information, although i can't see anywhere that this results in death, other than by humane destruction and not from a heart attack.

If I see the vet again I will ask him what he meant. Sorry to be so vague.

Thanks, that's interesting.
My lad was gelded at 6 and has been used as a stud, so obviously your comment caught my attention. I've heard of other things that apparently can be caused by late gelding, but never that.

 

[Spotsrock]

Thanks, that's interesting.
My lad was gelded at 6 and has been used as a stud, so obviously your comment caught my attention. I've heard of other things that apparently can be caused by late gelding, but never that.

Ditto, my boy was either imported or castrated at 8, possibly both but his passport is foriegn so I'm not sure which, can't imagine hime being used for breeding as he is not classically good looking of you know what I mean!! Still, off to google possible links now.

 

[Hunters]

Every time I have been in New York, these horses have looked well cared for and rested for good periods of time. They have special shoes on (look closely and you'll see shoes that you rarely would see in the UK) in order to protect their feet.

Horses drop dead, it happens - if they were dropping dead all over New York that would be a different matter?

 

[GTs]

I used to drive a horse and carriage in Boston and thought quite highly of the care the horses recieved. Compared to life on the Amish farm (where our horses were bought form), 9 hours is the city 3 times a week (all our horses were allowed to work) was a vacation.

 

[amage]

Well looking at those pics he is far from starved and looks in good nick. Horses drop dead all the time same as people. I will never forget a carraige ride we had booked being cancelled and a cop laughing at how it was too cold for the horses to be out but he still had to work!

 

[SusannaF]

I did a blogpost on this and just had a very interesting response, if anyone's curious. It concerns the ASPCA and the fact that their CEO wants to buy the land on which the carriage horse stables currently stand.

The plot thickens!

http://susannaforrest.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/neglect-and-the-manhattan-carriage-horse/

 

[aintgotnohay]

I used to drive a horse and carriage in Boston and thought quite highly of the care the horses recieved. Compared to life on the Amish farm (where our horses were bought form), 9 hours is the city 3 times a week (all our horses were allowed to work) was a vacation.

Amish horses are always driven with those tight overcheck reins which is bloody cruel as their heads are always held up tight and fixed in that position.

 

[rhino]

Post mortem results
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/310256.html
Poor boy

 

[Tharg]

I did a blogpost on this and just had a very interesting response, if anyone's curious. It concerns the ASPCA and the fact that their CEO wants to buy the land on which the carriage horse stables currently stand.

The plot thickens!

http://susannaforrest.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/neglect-and-the-manhattan-carriage-horse/

Interesting, I hope they don't win.

 

[EstherYoung]

How very bizarre. Lots of horses have undiagnosed ulcers, particularly stabled ones, and lots of horses have broken teeth. It doesn't kill them, it doesn't mean they are likely to drop dead, nor does it mean they are being:

forced to work in spite of painful maladies

If you picked any horse from the general population at random, you'd have a pretty good chance of finding that they had an ongoing tooth problem and/or that they had ulcers. As I say, ulcers are incredibly common particularly in stabled horses, and horse teeth are prone to cracking particularly once they get to 'a certain age'.

Two of our veterans have had broken teeth - there was no soreness accompanying the break at all, in fact one tooth came out in my hand. Vet was completely happy with both, didn't say they shouldn't be worked, we just had to make sure that teeth rasping was kept up to date as there was no longer a grinding surface to grind the pair on the other jaw down, and if they started to drop weight we needed to move onto sloppy fibrous feed. The vet certainly didn't have any concerns that they were about to drop dead on us.

If the horse looked well, I highly doubt that either the teeth or the ulcers were causing it any problems whatsoever.

SuzannaF, your link is very interesting. The plot thickens......

 

[SusannaF]

How very bizarre. Lots of horses have undiagnosed ulcers, particularly stabled ones, and lots of horses have broken teeth. It doesn't kill them, it doesn't mean they are likely to drop dead, nor does it mean they are being:



If you picked any horse from the general population at random, you'd have a pretty good chance of finding that they had an ongoing tooth problem and/or that they had ulcers. As I say, ulcers are incredibly common particularly in stabled horses, and horse teeth are prone to cracking particularly once they get to 'a certain age'.

Two of our veterans have had broken teeth - there was no soreness accompanying the break at all, in fact one tooth came out in my hand. Vet was completely happy with both, didn't say they shouldn't be worked, we just had to make sure that teeth rasping was kept up to date as there was no longer a grinding surface to grind the pair on the other jaw down, and if they started to drop weight we needed to move onto sloppy fibrous feed. The vet certainly didn't have any concerns that they were about to drop dead on us.

If the horse looked well, I highly doubt that either the teeth or the ulcers were causing it any problems whatsoever.

SuzannaF, your link is very interesting. The plot thickens......

There are some serious shennanigans going on. If you read the link to their retirement home, it alleges that the ASPCA guy/property developer has been staging fake ""rescues"" of retired horses – horses which had already been very well provided for and cared for.

 

[christine48]

I was in NY last week. I have to say all of the horses look well fed ( bored out of their minds though) They have water troughs and nose bags etc. What I would wonder about is the weight of the carriage they have to pull and the conditions in extreme weather in hight of summer and winter.

 

[SusannaF]

There's been another interesting development.

The vet who said that the horse was neglected has withdrawn her statement and been suspended by the ASPCA.

But a few days later, the society’s head equine veterinarian took it upon herself to issue a “correction” stating that in fact there was no evidence that the horse, Charlie, was experiencing any pain, that the ulcers he had were common in all breeds of working horses, and that any implication that Charlie was being abused was misleading.

Now the vet, Pamela Corey, has been suspended without pay by the society in the latest volley over the contentious subject of carriage-horse welfare in New York City.

The society declined to discuss why Dr. Corey had been suspended but said it had gone back and forth with her over drafts of its original news release about Charlie’s death. “We believe there are no factual differences between our original statement of 10/31/11 and the one Dr. Corey asked to issue,” said Elizabeth Estroff, senior vice president of communications for the A.S.P.C.A.